11:48
(upbeat music) Oh, welcome in everybody. Welcome in to "WWE Now." welcome to the "Clash in Italy" preview show. I cannot wait to break down this card that is very quickly become an absolutely loaded five match card. I am Sam Roberts, of course, with me, the one and only Megan Morant. And Megan, we are not breaking these five matches down, alone.
No, we couldn't! No, we couldn't. We don't have the- These are big matches. Huge, huge matches. So we needed somebody big, the biggest analyst that we could possibly find ladies and gentlemen, joining us, of course, Big E! There he is, in all of his glory. Welcome to "WWE Now" Big E, and I mean, as you look at this card, as you look at what we've got in front of us for "Clash in Italy," do you remember a five match show that from top to bottom was more loaded than this one? Ooh, that's a tough one. Look, we got a lot of future Hall of Famers. We have former world champions, future world champions.
Ah, this might be the most stacked just with star power alone. I would agree, I would agree. Let's start it. Let's start running through these matches. Let's start talking about what we've got in front of us, because I think we've got a lot to talk about with all of them. And you talk about future, former world champions. What about the fact that both the WWE Championship and the World Heavyweight Championship will be on the line at "Clash in Italy"? And what about the fact that Roman Reigns is walking into Italy, the world heavyweight champion,
and he is defending against Jacob Fatu? And this is not just a rematch, this my friend, is Tribal Combat. Megan, when you find out that it is Tribal Combat that Jacob and Roman are squaring off in with the World Heavyweight Championship on the line, who do you start leaning more towards in thinking this is the guy that's walking out with the title? Right now, based on everything that we've seen? Yeah. Jacob Fatu. Wow. Jacob Fatu has gotten the better of Roman Reigns ever since "Backlash", really. And yes, I know that Roman won that match at "Backlash", but who are we talking about after Tampa and "Backlash"?
We were talking about the Samoan werewolf, Jacob Fatu, and how he decimated Roman Reigns and Jacob wasn't done. He took his entire family out on "Monday Night RAW" a couple weeks ago, going through the barricade and he hasn't backed down since. Yeah, but this is Tribal Combat. It changes everything. I mean, this is not like, when this all started, Jacob shows up and he says, "I don't wanna be the tribal chief, but I want everything that you have." And this has evolved to a place where the only way that both parties can get to the spot that they want to get to is that Tribal Chief title has to be on the line.
The only way that Roman can get acknowledged by Jacob Fatu is beating him in Tribal Combat. I mean, E, I know Roman. Picturing Roman losing the World Heavyweight Championship this quickly, that seems far-fetched. But the idea that he would drop that title of Tribal Chief to Jacob Fatu, to me, that feels even more insane. And can you imagine if Jacob Fatu is able to make WWE in his image, if he is the one who is now the tone setter, who is the one who calls the shots, who is the one who is at the very top of the pyramid? I think the landscape of WWE completely changes if Jacob can beat Roman Reigns. And to your point, look, I understand, I think Jacob is easily the most dangerous threat that Roman has had probably in years.
But man, we're talking about Roman Reigns here. It's very difficult for me to imagine him losing the title in Italy. But if anyone can do it is this version of Jacob Fatu who has proven that rules don't matter. Referees aren't going to stop him. He is going to go to any and every length to get that position that he craves. What about the cheers and the boos of it all? The good guys and the bad guys? Traditionally, you just described Jacob Fatu as a guy who doesn't care about the rules, as a guy who referees aren't gonna stop him, right?
This should be in, any scenario where the world heavyweight title is on the line, Jacob Fatu should be the quote unquote "Bad guy" here. And Roman Reigns should be the "Good guy" here. But I watched on "Monday Night RAW" Roman Reigns could not take out Jacob Fatu by himself. Nope. He needed The Usos to help him. And you know, for me to be pointing it out it has to be true, because I do so reluctantly. But not only did it turn into a three-on-one scenario, but after Roman was done, before Jacob was the one that actually challenged him to Tribal Combat, Roman Reigns looked at Adam Pearce and said, "Go ahead and fire him."
He was ready for Adam Pearce to fire his cousin. Do you think that Roman Reigns walks into this match more of a villain in the story than Jacob is? A couple weeks ago, I wouldn't have said that Roman Reigns could be a villain, but especially after we saw him tell Adam Pearce to fire Jacob Fatu, to me- Yeah, but you were saying Jacob Fatu should be fired after "Backlash." Well, I was saying that- That would make you a villain too, and a hater. I was never saying he should be fired You were. You are putting words in my mouth.
I was just pointing out that after his actions at "Backlash", that maybe a suspension could be something- Oh God. that was on the table. And you, Sam Roberts called me a narc for even suggesting that Jacob Fatu should be suspended. That was some real front of the bus behavior on your part, Megan Moran. E, what do you think? Look, I don't believe that Jacob should be suspended, but the question of who's the villain is going in, look, I think we've seen some crowds who are blood thirsty. And if you're looking for blood, Jacob is going to bring that. If you want some mayhem, he is the one to deliver that. You know, I think that, that Roman is always going to be adored.
He is always going to be. We're gonna see a lot of ones up in the air, but when it comes time for that match, I think a lot of the crowd is going to be behind Jacob Fatu, because he's going to bring something chaotic. You don't know, like this, with this match and just understanding that really the stipulation, kind of, allows things to be wild, wide open. You don't know where in the arena this goes, you don't know what kind of weapons and instruments. This thing can really get outta hand very, very quickly.
Yeah but also, the fact that there are no rules and that it's Tribal Combat, you know, generally speaking, look, there have been two Tribal Combat matches previously. Roman Reigns beat Solo Sikoa one-on-one on the first "Monday Night RAW" on Netflix. But before that, he beat Jay Uso. And in that match, I believe, if I remember correctly, at that SummerSlam, Jimmy actually showed up and helped Roman beat Jay. That's all to say, that The Usos are clearly on the side of Roman Reigns. And based on the build to this match, any hangup that Roman had about The Usos helping him is no longer a hangup that he has, because we've watched it happen.
I think you can talk about the mayhem, the weaponry, the violence, that Jacob Fatu is all too familiar with, but at the same time, when the rules are off, I think Roman is pretty good at using all of his family members to help him. And I feel like that's back on the table more so than it has been all year. What I think really opens things up is we've seen people come to Roman's aid. I'm still wondering if anyone comes to Jacob's aid as well. We know this is a very large family, whether it's The MFTs, whether it's someone we haven't seen in WWE, you know, there are a lot of other potentials in play, but we've also seen a Jacob Fatu
who's been able to dispatch of The Usos fairly quickly. And look, we're talking about arguably the greatest tag team of all time, on the Mount Rushmore, at least of tag teams. But I'm not sure if, and this is a bold statement, but I'm not sure if The Usos being involved even matters that much to Jacob. That's, I think that just speaks to his level of intensity, his level of reckless abandon right now. We are seeing a Jacob Fatu who is not willing to relent. I don't know what it's gonna take to put this man down, but bring The Usos, bring the cousins, bring the aunts, bring the uncles, bring everybody, because you're gonna need it.
Yeah, I just want Solo to be involved because after Roman said, "Solo couldn't get a cup of coffee delivered to the arena", I was upset by that, I was offended. You were. I thought that was, he went too far. Yeah, it was you, you were watching that on an iPad, like Michael Jordan, you took that personally. Yeah, like- Yeah, I get that. Why Solo is catching strays right now, come on. No, I get that, I get that, I understand that.
I mean, listen, I think if there was ever, you're always looking for those shock moments in WWE and if there was ever a shock moment, I think Jacob Fatu walking out with the Ula Fala in the World Heavyweight Championship would be a shock moment. I think at the same time, we've also, if we've been watching the product, have been made aware that it is a direct, real, and very potential possibility that we could see this. For me, I can't see it. And maybe that's because, I just can't, the ramifications of this whole thing, this is what I'm stuck on, right? The ramifications of it. I can't see Jacob Fatu leading this bloodline and actually being called the Tribal Chief at the same time.
I can't see him acknowledging Roman Reigns. I mean, I think this whole thing might implode upon itself by the time it actually hits the ring. Yeah, I can't see Jacob ever being someone to actually take the time to acknowledge Roman. But look, and Roman still has a lot of gas in the tank, but his age starts with a four. At some point, that torch is going to need to be passed. And if there's anyone in the family who can take it by force, even if Roman is not ready to pass it, I think Jacob is the one. If I look at anyone else along, I look at that bloodline, I look at that family, if anyone is set to take what Roman has built
and put themselves at the very top of that, I think it's Jacob Fatu and I think it's this version of Jacob as well, bring back the tongue and death grip. We thought he was done after Tampa. He said, nope, this doesn't end here. (both laughing) Look, if anyone can do it. We keep saying, I can't see Roman lose, I can't see Roman losing, and I'm with you. But if there's anyone in the world that can do it, it's Jacob Fatu. I would agree with that a hundred percent actually. When we talk about these matches that have a lot of personal ramifications, I know one that Megan Morant is very invested in, one that we only found out was happening last Saturday,
seven days before, or I guess eight days, "Clash in Italy" is on Sunday. But we found out at Saturday night's main event after Becky Lynch, I mean real quickly into the match, decided to get referee Jessika Carr in between herself and Sol Ruca and kind of sabotaged the match so that she could leave with the title, I would imagine. The match is made official. After Sol Ruca wins that match by disqualification, we're getting the Intercontinental Championship on the line at "Clash in Italy", Sol Ruca versus Becky Lynch. Megan, you've gotta admit this is a big spot for Sol Ruca. Massive spot for Sol Ruca, I still question whether Sol Ruca is actually ready- Oh my God, For an intercontinental title match
against the greatest female wrestler of all time. And also, crooked Jessika Carr lived up to her name to a T, at Saturday Night's main event. Just explain this to me. Okay. Sol Ruca hits the soul snatcher on Jessika Carr. Jessika Carr got her soul snatched by Sol Ruca, yet somehow, some way, Becky Lynch is one who's disqualified. You know, we've seen it all the time in sports, right? Like Brady, refs love to see him come, and Brady would get a call here or there, but you earn it, right? When you're the greatest at anything- Oh God.
You earn those calls that you get. I would just like to see Becky Lynch get a call here or there. She is the greatest female wrestler of all time. And when all is said and done, I will remember that she had to do it the hard way. That Becky- Megan, I think you forgot a detail though. There's a little detail in how those events transpired. You missed the part where Becky takes Jessika, pulls her in front of Sol to make sure that the soul snatcher doesn't hit Becky, it hits Jessika Carr, That detail was left out and thus the DQ happened. That was the reason why- I think for once there was like a referee who wasn't, like a fool in there that actually understood what had happened.
I mean- For once? For once, Becky Lynch put her hands on Jessika Carr, Jessika- The second I saw Jessika Carr during the entrances, I said, "Uh-oh we're in trouble." Yeah, I bet you did, because Becky Lynch probably needs special officials. If you're a champion, it doesn't matter who the referee is, you're gonna win that match. Listen, I think the fact that Becky Lynch tried to get a referee involved, like five minutes into that match- What, are you trying to insinuate that Becky's scared?
I mean, I didn't even have to say it. What? That's weird that you got so defensive before I even said it. That is why you're Scam Roberts. You think she's scared of Sol Ruca, really? I think she was scared of losing the match at Saturday Night's main event, and she did lose the match at Saturday Night's main event and officially made Sol Ruca's main roster record two and one, or one and two I suppose. They're just handing out wins over there. No, well yeah, one and two and here's what I think.
I think you're looking at a new Intercontinental champion at "Clash in Italy". I think that. And I think that this is going to be, I mean, Sol Ruca, when you look at the history of the Intercontinental Championship, it was built for athletes like Sol Ruca, who are gonna show up and deliver the match that bell-to-bell is going to the audience talking. I remember going back to 1991, being a little kid sitting there watching SummerSlam and Bret Hart versus Mr. Perfect blew my little kid mind. To me, it defined what the Intercontinental Championship was in the men's division, forever. And you can go to Bret, you can go to Shawn, you can go to so many different athletes that made that Intercontinental championship what it still is today.
And I think, Sol Ruca is the type of athlete that's going to be able to do that to this title in the women's division. Listen, I agree with everything you're saying about Sol Ruca and her athleticism and what she has been able to do in the ring. She's only been wrestling for four years, there's no question about it. She's it. I just don't know if she can beat the greatest female wrestler of all time- She did. in the Intercontinental Championship at "Clash in Italy". She got a cheap one over Becky. Cheap? But when it counts, the man always delivers. E, do you think that win was cheap? I would not qualify it as cheap.
Becky is the reason that the DQ happened. But as far as what's gonna happen at Clash, look, I think Sol, clearly, so physically gifted. I love that the crowd is already behind her. They get the phenomenon that is Sol Ruca, but the difference is really, Becky has been doing this at a high level. I don't know if you guys got to check out the A&E rivals between Becky- It was my Super Bowl and Charlotte. But of course, but I think it gives you a lot of insight into, at this level, at the very top, this is what the business is.
It is manipulation, it is mind games. It is finding a way not only to be physically superior to your opponent, but to have that mental edge. And I think Becky has been through it. When you go to battle with your best friend and you're able to deal with the ups and downs and not just your best friend, but someone who is as accomplished as Charlotte is, one of the greatest women to ever do it. When you have been through that storm and you've done it time and time again, you've taken on newcomers, you've taken on legends, you've taken on, she has, whether Trish. Essentially every woman of note who has stepped foot in a WWE ring that was available since the turn of the century, Becky has essentially been in the ring with
and has vanquished. That's the level she's at. And now just knowing that she's willing to pull out any tactic possible, she's willing to use any trick, any rough distraction, that is what separates this version of Becky Lynch from the rest of the field is, as far as her IQ, she's as sharp as they come. Maybe the greatest, just from a wrestling IQ standpoint, her wrestling mind and her ability to be crafty, I think is what. I'm not saying Sol can't get it done in Italy, but that's what Sol is going to have to figure out, is how am I one step ahead of the most cunning woman in this industry?
Let me ask you about that, E, and based on not only your experience, but watching the experiences, the people that you've shared locker rooms with, everything you just said about Becky is a hundred percent right. And I watched the rivals A&E special, and so much of it had to do with Becky from the beginning, not necessarily being a chosen one and having to find those opportunities and fight at all costs for those opportunities and then fight at all costs to maintain and keep those opportunities. But at a point, does a performer develop a risk of having those edges soften? At a point, do you get comfortable in that position where you are acknowledged as the greatest to ever do it?
You are on these lists of greatest of all time. At a point, do you lose sight when a new generation comes up and realizes, oh, that's the person. That now they're the new Becky, that's the person that I have to take off of that throne if I wanna make my mark on this sport? Absolutely, it is very easy. What is that, Marvin Hagler quote about how difficult it is when you're sleeping in satin sheets to get up and train and to do the work? For so many talents, she has been on the top, at the top of this industry for almost a decade, with like, you know, she took a break, not really a break, she was raising a child. But beyond that, for the most part, this woman has, we've seen her at the very top of this industry, almost with no breaks.
But the difference is though, Becky's different. So a lot of other people in her position would be coasting. You would see they don't quite have the same spark, you would see them slow down. I don't see that in Becky Lynch. Every time I turn my TV on and I watch Monday Night RAW, I don't see that from Becky Lynch. I don't see someone who is ready to pass the torch down to the next generation. I don't see someone who has softened, who is just there to collect her paycheck.
I see a very fired up Becky. So I think in many other examples, you would see a more diminished version of a superstar who's been on top for a very long time. I'm sorry, I just don't see that with Becky Lynch. Becky Lynch is the furthest thing from complacent right now. And I mean, with all that Becky's done, and I know I joke around a lot, but I do believe that we're seeing some of Becky's best matches and Becky's best work right now. I didn't realize you're joking, most of the time people laugh at jokes. The number one sports fan festival "Fanatics Fest" returns to the Javits Center in New York City (Sam laughs) from July 16th through the 19th, 2026.
It is a must attend for WWE fans. You'll be able to meet your favorite superstars and enjoy surprise appearances all weekend long. New superstars, just added for Fanatics Fest include Oba Femi, AJ Styles, and Trick Williams. Photo and autographs for these superstars will be available for purchase on Friday, May 29th. Keep May 29th circled on your calendars because additional auto and photo opportunities will be added for all superstars, including superstars that are currently sold out.
Fanatics Fest, general admission and photo opportunity tickets are on sale now at fanaticsfest.com. And you talk about championships being up for grabs and you talk about huge rematches. How about this one? Jade Cargill gets a shot at getting her championship back at "Clash in Italy". Rhea Ripley defends against Jade Cargill. And Megan, you talked about Becky being different, Becky being non-complacent. I agree with all of that. When you talk about athletes who are different, who are special, who are just above that line that break through those ceilings, Rhea Ripley is that person.
This is Rhea Ripley's first, kind of, big match since becoming WWE Women's Champion once again. Is this a different Rhea Ripley than we're used to seeing? I think so, right? Because leading into WrestleMania, I think there was just this urge and this desire from all of the fans to see Rhea Ripley back as a singles competitor. We loved the teaming up with Iyo Sky. We loved what Rhea was able to do in the tag division, but Rhea with a championship, Rhea with the WWE Women's Championship is something that we've been waiting for, for a while.
And I talked about this heading into WrestleMania, I wanted to see Rhea develop that edge, and I think Jade has brought her to that point where we're going to see that in Italy. I wonder when you talk about developing that edge, I think that "Clash in Italy" becomes a good showcase to find out if she has developed that edge. Because I think Jade Cargill has developed that edge. I think Jade Cargill getting met with some real adversity, seems to have brought out this other side. I think Jade Cargill losing the championship, hearing people doubting her, whether she's the star that she thinks she is or not,
it feels like not only in interviews, but when you see her in the ring, there's this aggressive streak that has developed in Jade Cargill where she's kind of unapologetic about this spot that she's in, in professional wrestling. And knowing that she too is one of those special few performers. E, do you think that losing the championship may have actually sharpened that edge of Jade Cargill? I do. I think, and not saying that Jade was complacent, but I think when you almost have this aura of invincibility and it's like, I don't even know if Jade understood she could lose, for the longest time.
Like, it's like not something that even crossed her mind, but then having Rhea beat her for her world championship, I think now she has that hunger. I see that hunger again. You know, for me, I think there's so many interesting factors here, is look, if we're just seeing these two women, I think as far as physicality is concerned, it's pretty much awash with two absolute specimens. But the real difference is Rhea has been doing this for a very long time. She has faced so many of the best women in the world.
She's been at the very top for a long time. So the experience edge definitely goes to Rhea. But what I think is the interesting factor is, I would be shocked if we don't see B-Fab if we don't see Michin, but what we saw at Saturday Night's main event was we saw a well-oiled machine. Those three are clicking, and they can go, I was really impressed with what Michin did, B-Fab looked great. They are really clicking. And now if we're looking at the other side of things, do we see Charlotte, do we see Alexa? Because it doesn't seem like they're, sometimes it seems like they're on the same page, other times not.
So I think if it comes down to the outside players and their involvement, I think Rhea's championship is in real jeopardy. Because when I look on one side, on Team Jade, they are ready. And I think they know what the mission is. They know what the goal is. I think on the other side of things, you have Charlotte, who still, I'm sure wants to get back to that world championship. You have Alexa who is also in the middle of things. You don't see three women who are on the same page. So, if it comes to outside interference and involvement, if you are a real fan, I'm concerned.
Yeah, I think too, when you talk about those teams, when you talk about those outside people, number one, I would imagine, and E, you would know this, it's difficult to maintain friendships when you're the champion because you've got a thing, that by definition, everybody in that locker room at some level wants. On the other side of that coin, you've got people like B-Fab and Michin, who specifically said, when asked, "Why are you all of a sudden teaming with Jade Cargill?" This is going back to before WrestleMania. They said, "We've been looking for our opportunity." And they've been pretty clear and in the open about the fact
that they've been looking for their opportunity on a very crowded women's roster. And they realized that associating with Jade Cargill elevates their stock. But I think that statement is really only true when Jade Cargill is champion. So while Charlotte and Alexa, I don't know, may have problems with Jade, I don't think Charlotte and Alexa are better off if Rhea is champion. But I do think that B-Fab and Michin are better off if Jade Cargill is the WWE Women's Champion. I could not agree more. And not because, this isn't a shot at their ability- No. but how often do you see B-Fab or Michin on these PLEs before they decided to team with Jade? That wasn't really a thing. So you see the opportunities,
you see them at Saturday Night's main event, you see that they have elevated because of it. And I think they understand right now there's value in being a role player, you know? But on the other side of things, if we're looking at the, like the old school bulls, you see Rhea, you see Charlotte, and I see two people trying to be Michael Jordan. Whereas on the other side, we have someone who is good being Steve Kerr, we have Tony Kukoc, and they make their Michael Jordan, they elevate Jade's game. So I think right now, they're just all, they're all really humming.
They know their roles and they're satisfied in those roles and they've all benefited because of it. But I think when you're looking at Charlotte, even Alexa, another multi-time former World Champion, you have a lot of alphas who I think are gunning for the same thing. And teamwork is really about trust. Can Rhea go into "Clash in Italy" trusting that her partners will have her back, that they're there for the right reasons? I think Jade can go in with that same trust, I don't know if Rhea can. Look, you have three of the best singles competitors in women's wrestling history.
Nothing about Rhea Ripley, Charlotte Flair, or Alexa Bliss, says role player. That's a difference. The only role they're gonna play is top, top, tippity top. Exactly. And I think Rhea Ripley has to develop that thing, which you know that she has, which is being able to assure I can coexist with people, but ultimately, whatever the job is, I can do it completely by myself. I think that's what ends up separating. I mean, you look at like a Cody Rhodes for example. Cody Rhodes has lost a lot of friends during the time that he's been champion. But what makes him Cody is the fact that even when nobody else is around,
he can get the job done. Same with Roman Reigns. Charlotte Flair has been in that position. Becky Lynch has been in that position. And I think that is the position that Rhea Ripley needs to be in. She needs to get the conversation away from what's going on around this scene and realize that, or make people realize that no matter who your friends are, that's Rhea Ripley and it doesn't matter. And I think that Rhea's been in that spot before. I'm just interested to find out if she can get back into that spot. And I guess that's one of the things that we'll find out on Sunday.
You know, "Clash in Italy" is bringing WWE spectacle to the heart of Torino with one of the boldest and most visually ambitious Slam releases ever created. Inspired by the grandeur, fashion, art, architecture, and energy of Italy, this box features an unforgettable lineup of cards such as, Renaissance Bass, Marble Signature, Postcards from Italy, Grapplers of Wrath, and much more. "Clash in Italy" blends WWE intensity with timeless European style for a truly one of a kind collecting experience, start collecting these cards and more with WWE Slam by Topps.
Now, and I've gotta ask you, okay, I wanna pull up this tweet that I saw from Triple H, who posted the match graphic and said, "Possibly the most anticipated rematch ever, Oba versus Lesnar 2, "Clash in Italy". E, Megan and I were able to be here on RAW recap, right after Brock Lesnar returned to the WWE 30 days after he had left his boots in the ring. And all of us thought he was gone for good. Before we even get into the rematch, what did you make, a week ago, when Lesnar showed up out of nowhere and attacked Oba Femi, before the Open Challenge match? I was shocked. Look, we were all there at WrestleMania and we thought Brock is done.
We were shocked then, he put his boots down, we all saw it, we thought this was it. When you're around this business, it's hard to be thoroughly surprised. I was thoroughly surprised to see Brock return to lay waste to Oba. And it seemed after WrestleMania that Oba was just truly on a rocket ship and he was just kind of biding his time until he was going to hold that world championship, it felt very inevitable. But I did not think that he was still going to have to deal with the Brock Lesnar problem. And Brock Lesnar is indeed that, he is a problem.
It is hard for me, as much as I thought, I'm not expecting Oba to take an L the rest of the year. It's difficult for me to think that this version of Brock, after coming back, after having fooled us all, I think that Brock Lesnar is going to come in his most focused version. He has something to prove. To be manhandled the way he was at the show of shows by this newcomer, oh, but who does that to Brock? Nobody does that to Brock. Brock, he has something to prove. If he loses again in Italy, don't even come back. Just buy a house over there, we're good.
(Sam laughs) We thank you for your services, you're a legend, thank you so much. I'm sure there's a lovely ranch out there you can purchase. But I think Brock is going to enter that match with that mindset of, this match needs to be mine. I have to win this. Yeah, you're gonna have to get an airline credit for the flight home, 'cause you're not gonna need it. You might as well have just book to one way. (E laughing) I mean, to that point, Megan, I think he's right. I don't think.
Brock Lesnar had, what I described and what a lot of fans described as a perfect wrestling retirement at WrestleMania. I don't think that Brock Lesnar immediately came back so he could get on an international flight to Italy and lose again to Oba Femi. We also saw when Brock returned for the first time, it was Brock's full onslaught against Oba Femi. Oba Femi took four F5s in a row. It was the first time, from the Road to WrestleMania and even including the match at WrestleMania, that Oba Femi was completely left laying and Brock Lesnar had completely physically bested Oba.
Do you think that the roles have reversed here in the sense that going into WrestleMania, Oba was that unknown that maybe Brock underestimated. Oba was the one responding to a Brock Lesnar open challenge. Now that Brock Lesnar is very familiar with Oba Femi, now that Brock Lesnar is the one responding to Oba's open challenge, do you think those roles reversed that much? They absolutely reversed. because this is the first time now that we're seeing Brock Lesnar's back against the wall, first time in a very long time, that Brock Lesnar's back is completely against the wall.
Oba had something to prove going into WrestleMania. Yes, we saw Saturday night's main event. Yes, we saw him in the ring with Cody Rhodes and we saw Drew McIntyre get involved and yes, we saw all of the incredible things he did at NXT. But when you're at the show of shows, when you're in the ring with someone like Brock Lesnar, and all of the things that he has accomplished in WWE, you absolutely have to step up to the plate. You absolutely have something to prove. And Oba beat him so bad, that Brock Lesnar retired. I don't know if we've ever seen a Brock Lesnar with a chip on his shoulder this size of something to prove in Oba Femi.
Well, to be fair, Brock has some of the biggest shoulders that you've ever seen. Massive. The chip just to even be noticed- But I'm really- would have to be huge. Listen, Brock Lesnar told us all the other week, he doesn't give enough. No, he has said that before. He has said, and I believe him, I believe him. I mean, I mean Paul Heyman seems very confident about this whole thing as well. E, a lot has been made about Oba Femi and a lot of us have taken to fantasy booking the rest of the year, the rest of whatever it is,
we all have an idea of how Oba Femi should be portrayed. You know, there are comparisons made to Hulk Hogan in '85 and Oba mania running wild. There are comparisons made to Goldberg and Oba Femi going on an undefeated streak like you've never seen before. If Oba Femi were to lose to Brock Lesnar on Sunday night, does this knock Oba Femi way back, does this stop Oba Femi's momentum? I don't think it puts him at the back of the line. I don't think it completely resets him. Look, there is no shame in losing to Brock Lesnar. If you've been in the ring with Brock, we've all lost to Brock.
(Sam laughing) It's inevitable, right? But what I'm really intrigued to see though is how, if Oba is rattled, you know, it's very easy to be the hammer, can you be the nail? If you're the guy who was always leading the charge, if you're the guy who was always decimating people and then, like, I'm sure his confidence after beating Brock the way he did at WrestleMania, it's gotta be sky high, thinking he's invincible. Now, how do you handle things if you're left laying and God forbid if he loses at "Clash in Italy", I think in many ways I would love to see, hopefully it means we get a rubber match.
Hopefully it means that we get to see a third possibly at SummerSlam and Brock's, you know, home state, hometown of Minnesota. I think that's really intriguing. But I think if Oba is able to win in Italy, it truly cements him as the guy. Everything you thought about him, everything, all the plans, don't cancel him. They're still on, there, like, put him straight in the main event, give world title opportunities, all of that. But if he does lose in Italy, there's going to be a bit of reset because he's, until he gets over this hump with Brock,
I don't think he can get to all his other goals. So this is really the first big important step. And you know, it's very rare to be a newcomer to the main roster and have a first test that is this steep to have a mountain to climb. You know, it's usually you kind of work your way up, the mid-card titles and you start. It's like one of the greatest of all time right away. And to manage to beat him and to have to do it again, that's one of the toughest asks we've ever asked for someone who is only less than a year on the main roster. Yeah, I mean, and that's, I think what makes this rematch so incredible is that the same way, we're sitting here going, we can't really call it with Jacob and Roman because of what the stipulation is,
here, you're looking at simply a one-on-one match, no title, no stip, it's just Brock versus Oba Femi. But there is so much on the line in this match that we have only been building for a week and a half, that on one end if Brock loses, he's gotta be sipping cappuccinos and move to Italy. On the other end, if Oba loses, there's a full reset and everything that we knew about Oba kind of shifts. Like, everything is different after this match. The same way everything is different after Jacob and Roman. And I would argue everything is different after the match that we'll talk about in a moment. But first, I do wanna remind everybody
that Topps Now, captures major milestones and viral moments from the biggest events. We've seen incredible cards already this year from "Elimination chamber", "Backlash", and of course, "WrestleMania." As we head into "Clash in Italy", make sure you're following @topps on social and that you sign up for notifications on topps.com so you don't miss limited edition Poster Cards, as well as all the big moment cards from the weekend. And I think there's no doubt in my mind that there are big moments potentially in every single match on this card. But Cody Rhodes, who won the WWE championship back from Drew McIntyre, who had a strange winding, at points, unpaved road that he had to walk down to WrestleMania.
He finally got out of that. And coming off of WrestleMania, he has to get himself off the injured list, only to be looking face-to-face with Gunther. When you talk about something's gotta give. On one end, if you said to me, Sam, you think Cody Rhodes is gonna lose the WWE championship at "Clash in Italy", you know, whatever it is, two PLEs removed from WrestleMania, I go, "of course not, of course not." We're on that Cody run right now. If you ask me the same, Sam, "Do you think Gunther, after retiring John Cena, and then retiring AJ Styles, and then beating Seth Rollins at WrestleMania, do you think he's gonna take his first loss
since beating John Cena at 'Clash in Italy?'" I'd say, "Of course not." No, that wouldn't happen with Gunther yet. And here we are with the WWE championship on the line. I think that this is even more of a something's gotta give scenario than people are realizing on the surface. Look, I think for when you're talking about superstars and you're talking about talent, as a broadcaster, oftentimes, I don't think that stats and numbers are really things that I like to pull from often, except for Gunther. It's like, gimme those Gunther stats.
Oh yeah, what, 666 consecutive days holding this title. His record is, his win percentage is that high. Yeah, the stats with this guy, they tell so much of the story. He just doesn't lose. It's so rare that he loses that we can kind of count them on one hand. That's the level he's at. That's the level of greatness that he has established. So, I think Cody, to me, is going into this match as the underdog. I think- Wow. Gunther, his focus, I think his dedication right now to getting back to being a world champion, if I'm a Cody fan, I am very, very concerned because this version of Gunther, I think is someone
who in many ways has kind of been, has not been highlighted in the same way we saw maybe a year or two ago. I think Gunther is someone who is always looking to be the face of the brand he's on again, to be the one who closes shows again, to get back to that spot that he's worked so hard to cultivate. This is a tough, tough test for Cody to get past. If anyone can do it, it's Cody. But also for me, as far as match quality, this is the one I'm circling. This is gonna be my match of the night, bell to bell. I think this one is truly going to deliver. But you know, Cody is going to leave, win, lose, or draw, he's going to leave this match with lumps all over his chest, all over his body.
He's going to be battered and bruised. Gunther is absolutely going to bring it to him. If Cody's able to win, he's going to survive, that's how I view it, is Cody, a win is surviving for him. Easy to find, hard to beat. I think that catchphrase applies specifically to this match. And to E's point, Megan, we've talked about this before. Gunther winning the WWE championship at "Clash in Italy" would irritate a lot of people. There are a lot of people that sit there and go, oh, with this Gunther, no, he beats this guy, he beats that guy.
Why would Gunther be the guy to retire John Cena? Why would Gunther be the one to retire AJ Styles? How is Seth Rollins losing to Gunther? And now you sit here and halfway through the year, Gunther could potentially be the WWE champion, a lot of people would be irritated by it. And I feel like, that actually points towards Gunther potentially winning. But it's Gunther- Exactly. Is what we always say. Whenever Gunther's in a situation, like the situation he is in right now, where he's going after the WWE championship, I think Gunther is operating at this level where we knew after he retired John Cena, when is he next going to set his eyes
on a world championship in WWE? I didn't see it happening with Cody Rhodes, but because Paul Heyman granted this favor and got the match made, this is how we get to this situation. And I do have to say to Cody's credit, really ever since winning that championship back, we've seen another edgy, another layer to Cody Rhodes I should say. We've seen him go to places in the ring in order to figure out a way to win and make decisions that Cody wasn't making before. Aggressive ones. And aggressive decisions. And I think Cody is going to need that when it comes to Gunther in Italy. I would say that's right and I think you're right.
Cody has looked for those pockets that generally he wouldn't have looked for before. Yeah. He learned. I think Cody is a guy who learns from every mistake that he makes. But I also think that when you look at Cody Rhodes, there's one thing that guy loves doing and that's conquering a monster. I mean, Cody is an old school wrestling guy where the good guy goes in there and he goes against a foe that no man could conquer. And where there's a will, there's a way, he figures it out. And Cody is the one guy that can tame the monster. He is the David that is constantly hitting Goliath with those slingshots until he finally catches him in the eyeball.
I think that's who Cody is in a nutshell. And I feel like, E, if there was ever a time for Cody to have one of those moments, one of those conquering the beast, for lack of a better term, 'cause there already is a beast on this card, moments, it would be beating Gunther. By the way, in Europe, it's a different thing when Gunther's in Europe. We've seen Gunther at other Clash PLEs, we've seen Gunther in big matches in Europe and I feel like the welts are even higher after a match in Europe. But for Cody, like you said, to be able to survive something like that, to be able to be the guy that can beat Gunther, I feel like that's, kind of, how Cody defines himself as a pro wrestler.
No, I absolutely agree. I think he's always looking for the biggest test and they don't get much bigger than Gunther. But Cody's gonna have to be someone who goes into this match and doesn't hesitate. We've seen him in the past be afraid to do something he perceived as dirty or low. He's going to have that killer instinct. If you're going to beat Gunther, there can be no hesitation. And to your point, Gunther is not in his home country of Austria, but he honed his craft abroad in Europe and I think he's going to, in many ways have that home field advantage. I'm so intrigued also, to see how the crowd is as well.
I would expect a pro-Gunther crowd. And I wonder if that rattles Cody, I wonder how much that kind of shakes his confidence if that makes him, you know, keep his eye, kind of, off the ball because of that. But I would expect Gunther to really go into this match at "Clash in Italy", feeling like he has the momentum, feeling like he has the fans behind him and feeling like he's the favorite. And that is a lot for Cody to have to overcome. I can't wait to see it. E, you said this was the one that you were circling, Megan, if you could only circle one of 'em to be like, this is the one, I don't even think I have to ask.
Come on, Becky Lynch, Sol Ruca. You wanna see it, you wanna see it. I've gotta tell you, as intrigued as I am with tribal warfare and as much as I want to know, you know, what goes on, kind of with my family in a lot of ways, you know, that's a lot of people kind of- Yeah, all the time. say that. Yeah, they do. They say you're in the bloodline. Jacob said it. He said I was the real honorary. I'm just saying that's what Jacob said. I'm not saying that I said, I'm saying that's what Jacob said.
I'm not even saying I agree with, I'm just saying for the record Jacob said it, but, man, do I wanna see this Oba, Brock match again. Man, do I wanna see this Oba, Brock match. I can't wait for the whole show. E, it is always a pleasure, thank you so much, dude. Thank you. Yeah, of course, you're the best. And we will be right here after "Clash in Italy" to recap the whole thing. So make sure you're subscribed across all our audio platforms.
Comment, like on YouTube and we will see you on Sunday after "Clash in Italy". (bright upbeat music)
