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Welcome to Pixelated episode 110. I'm your host, Will Saddleberg. With a break in the news ahead of the Pixel 11 launch, we're zooming out to take a look at the state of Android. From hardware to software to camera quality and even smart glasses, it's an interesting time for our favorite operating system/ ecosystem. And myself, Damian, and Abner all have some big picture thoughts. It all starts right after this message from our sponsor, Proton. Grab your phone and take a look at your app drawer right now. You've probably found yourself relying on these same old apps and services since the Nexus days.
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support team, and so much more. It's what's best for your current phone, not whatever you were using back in 2013. Upgrade to Proton today and save 30% on your annual subscription by heading to proton.me/95 Google or by clicking the link in the show notes. That's proton.me/95. me/95google. Thanks to Proton for sponsoring Pixelated. So, it's a bit of a strange time, guys, isn't it? I think Well, first and foremost, it's summer, so we're we're in this like pre-release season. We're waiting for pre-releases, but I don't know. I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about we were kind of percolating some ideas and stuff, and I feel like Android in general is in a really weird spot. I don't necessarily think truly negatively, but
I guess we've lost a few players. We have this weird really weird situation where Google's making ground while everyone else seems to be faltering. I don't know. I'd love to know what you guys are thinking. The state of Android, let's call it the state of Android. And this is a bit of an address to kind of get us talking about this. Let's get our juices flowing. There's some cool products out there, but I don't know. Maybe are we in the minority talking positively about this? I'm not sure. Well, I think this is a good point to talk about. Like I think right before Pixel is like a good point to kind of examine it because I do think the state of Android is in flux at
the moment and I don't think it is completely it's it's no single player's fault, right? I think it is largely economic trends uh that are impacting um you know on the hardware side for sure. Like I feel like a lot of the you know, not that we weren't already in a stagnative market, but I think a lot of the stagnation we're feeling this year in particular, where it does feel like nearly every new release is like kind of just reheated from last year, if not from 2024. Um, you know, it makes it has been accelerated just because of like I think the RAM crunch. I think companies saw this coming. I also think that to a certain extent with the you know maybe a fold eight shaped exception we have sort of hit this like we have
be gone we have gone beyond peak smartphone and we have gone into like I've I've said this before but it really is it's like every washing machine you're going to look at Home Depot is like essentially the same and that's that's where we're at with phones like it might be slightly different from the one next to it but you are getting a tall phone with somewhere between two and three cameras. Let's average it. 2.5 cameras uh on the back, a front-facing camera, stereo speakers, like the hardware is so good at its at it. Like there is no bad piece of hardware unless you're really shopping in like the, you know, soon to begone $200 range that I think it can be really easy for people to just like kind of I don't know. I it's not exciting, right?
Like it's it's not exciting. And then on the software side, I think how you feel about Android as an operating system is going to come down to how you feel about Gemini at this point. Like they are so intrinsically linked. I I do wonder. You mentioned like that $200 range. I'm surprised we haven't seen like a bit of resurgence of and I don't want to say reheated, but kind of like re reoriented. I'll use I use marketing speak for the people out there is they reorient these phones that maybe use older hardware and I mean we I mean me and you will we love gaming handhelds we love our like retro pockets amber nick you know athor whatever you want to call whatever you want to point out a
lot of those devices kind of use older hardware to overcome some of the shortcomings that they potentially have had so surprised we haven't seen more companies try and do this and I thought Samsung might like use old maybe some of those slightly older Qualcomm chips that still supported and try and reheat them into a new device. Like the P I mean, let's take for example the mid-range of the market. The A series Pixel has always felt like a really good spot to be. And now it feels like there are going to be devices that are targeting that range with way lesser specifications than people would criticize the A series for. I don't know. It feels really at odds with where progress has been in Android for
the past decade, maybe decade, 15 years. I think this is just a mature market. It's I think I' we've said this before, but laptops is the best equivalent. Um I don't necessarily think that this is of everything. I just think this is how the steady state of technology um balling any major hardware innovations uh be it uh batteries or cameras or anything like that. I think this is just a natural endpoint of this form factor and I it was absolutely nice when we had innovation every single year but uh that hardware is hard hardware is very mature and until anything happens um that's that's a state of phone hardware.
Yeah. I mean what's left to ask for to a certain extent like even from enthusiasts like what do you like unless you're asking for things that were removed right like if you're like bring back the headphone jack which like I'm happy you're fighting that battle out there if you're if that's you but like I like it's obviously not going to happen. So like if you're living in the world of realism and I also think most people just don't really they truly have moved beyond the headphone jack. I think it's been a decade and you can feel it. Um, has it been a decade? Has it been a decade since we started seeing phones remove that? That's crazy.
Oh, yeah. I believe the No, it must be a Pixel the launch Pixel, they make the whole big uh point on stage of like we have a headphone jack cuz Apple had just removed it. And then a year later with the Pixel 2, they removed the headphone jack and everybody's like, Google, you like advertised on this like 11 months ago. Um, so yeah. No, this is the 10 year anniversary of like AirPods and the removal of the like and I got to be honest like I really feel like you know for the most part unless you're really going out of your way to like lean into the like counterculture aspect of using like older tech like most people have adopted wireless headphones. I think the I think the benefits clearly outweigh the cons with those and like people grabbed
on to them. So, a tangent, but you know, like outside of that, like what you know, the main Pixel 11 leak has been like, is the notification LED back? Like, that's where we're at. Like, it's just kind of like what if we what can we recycle from 20 years ago that like maybe we can find new ways to use in the AI era. But largely speaking, I think these phones are like all you'd be doing is asking for thinner or longer battery life or you know, I don't think anybody is still asking for larger screens, but you get it. Like there's no obvious like I hope my next phone does blank. I think maybe Abnner's in agreement with me here is that sometimes I think when you try and stay
on the I guess the precipice or the in air quotes bleeding edge which isn't changing that drastically now when you get something like an A series phone or something a little bit cheaper it kind of puts into perspective what you actually value in the phone like right maybe you don't need the best of this or the best of that and I understand as a consumer it makes sense to buy the best that's available to you within your budget and I would always say to people if they're looking for an Android phone specifically, buy the best one that you can buy. But I do think sometimes it's quite refreshing to have something that doesn't necessarily play by the same rules and like maximizes what it has,
maximizes the maximizes within its limitations. I wonder if that's like stifled a little bit. I don't know. Like are you're still using the Pixel 10 ABNA, right? Currently I moved the 10 Pro like a month out before the event, but that's uh purely just for work reasons. If I had my choice, I'd definitely still be on the 10A. I Yeah, I do find it weird. Maybe this is like the apathy towards it is the fact that you kind of said it a little bit, will that necessarily see major changes and we've we've kind of been fighting a battle of make this tiny thing better, this tiny
complaint that enthusiasts have. Like I would love to like I don't know if you do you guys do this very often is when you see people out in public and you kind of like trying to judge in your brain of like why would they use that phone specifically like when I see someone with the fold I'm like why would they choose a fold specifically cuz I'm still in my brain apart from the fold 8 has kind of convinced me that's the form factor that should have won out. It's crazy. But um I'm kind Yeah, I'm looking at it. Maybe we are maybe we're at the point where the platform's so mature that we're we want everything to be perfect. And that's just the kind of how capitalism works. It can't ever be perfect. Everything. I mean, we've we've
also they're they're commodities now to the point where it's like I mean, Abner, you're saying, you know, if not for this job and for the launch coming up, like you would still be on the 10a like, you know, um I think I spoke recently about like thinking about rising phone costs and my dad who is an iPhone user like thinking he was on an iPhone 12 and I'm like I have to we have to do this before I the rumor is that the iPhone 18 is launching next year and not in the fall, but like I think they're going to raise prices on everything regardless in September. So, it's like I have to get him on something. He's having issues with his phone. He only asked me to upgrade his device when it's really bad. And he had
asked me and like I was going to I was like just going to do like, okay, here's the iPhone 17. And then like truly and not to talk too much about that side of the fence, but it's a very similar story with the Pixel 10 and the 10a. think I looked down the list and I was like, there is nothing here on the 17 that my dad cares about that isn't on the 17e. He's not going to care about the ultrawide camera. He's not going to care about the faster refresh rate. If I tried to describe to my dad the difference between 60 and 120 Hz. He would be like, I don't really understand why I need to care about that. Why am I paying $200 more for that? Like I went down the list and I was like, "Oh, like
phones really have hit the point where it's like if you're just like an average user, like you really can spring for the mid-range option and like be fine because I really don't think you know some of the telephoto lenses out there are impressive, but are they worth double more than double what you know the other device you could buy that would otherwise give you the experience you're looking for?" No, of course not. Speaking of the camera, so I think that would be I wouldn't be that say that it's exception, but I think that's a thing that people come to care about, especially as their primary camera. Well, um, but that said, I kind of do wonder if that the camera too is
at its good enough point. Um, right. What do we think about that? I do you know what? I sorry. Well, I will take this one because I [clears throat] am the camera nerd here. Um, but I think that we kind of hit a point and I think we discussed it. We discussed it in the early really early episodes of Pixelated AB when we were talking I think we're talking about the 8A. I think we were talking about how like from that period of when you have a point and shoot camera in your pocket, you just want it to just do the bare minimum would be a good photo, but you want a photo that you remember. And I think considering smart displays, I know I'm going on a
little bit of a tangent here, but I will loop it back. It will make sense. With smart displays, I found that I don't take photos and never see them anymore. I.e., on my first wave of smartphones, the camera I mean, by today's standards, the cameras were bloody terrible. But you take a picture and you would have to seek it out to go see it. If you have a smart display, you take a picture and you see it. And the flaws, I think, are less important. And to tie into your point, Abner, they have been good enough for a long time. I think the optimizations that a lot of these camera makers have, I mean, a lot of them kind
of stole that HDR bracket in from Google at the top end. When Pixel came out, it was so revolutionary in that respect and the computational side of things. Everyone's kind of caught up. A lot of the photos kind of look the same. And it's all about consistency. I there's photos I've taken with the Pixel 3 that I sometimes regularly see on my um Pixel tablet in front of me and my smart display Nest Hub. I can't even remember the name of it in my living room. And I the first thing I think is not necessarily how bad the edges are of detection for portrait mode. It's just that was a phenomenal photo I took it at the time I took it. So yeah, I agree. I do kind of think
that cameras have been good enough for a really long time now. And I think it's just kind of a case of what your visual elements that you like. Yeah. Personally, when I look at my camera roll or what I use for wallpaper specifically that I see photos that I took with the Pixel 7, Pixel 8 and I'm fine with it. I'm h more than fine actually. I'm happy with it. It looks It still looks great to this day. And I do I would say that people are that we've like Damon is saying we've reached that good enough point. But I don't know. I think what brought me on to this topic is like you see the resurgence of um disposable cameras of
Polaroids. Well, they have been for a few years. But how much do people really care about that image quality? I think they like the look, don't they? People like a specific look. I mean, I know we I mean, I'm gonna Do you think more than Look, I'd say they like the tangibleness of it. I mean, printer photo printers for smartphones absolutely exist. I have I highly recommend one from Xiaomi if you get the opportunity to get one. It's amazing to have, like you say, a tangible photo from that you've taken.
It is crazy. It kind of like it kind of rewires your brain to be like, "Ah, I could print that. I could put that on the wall." Like it is really cool to have that because it feels I feel like uh photography is like kind of like a holistic experience and for smartphone photography you don't necessarily have that because you go bang take 50 photos and we did it when we were at MWC didn't we have no where we were kind of like we took our time took some cool photos saw some really cool stuff and those photos I know that they are good whereas if I just went and did the brainless tourist thing and just went bam and recorded everything I maybe wouldn't have had as much of a good time taking photos. I don't know.
We always have a good time anyway, don't we, Abna? So, I Is there anything to the idea that like the only thing I would really want cameras to change right now is maybe to add a little bit more character back into their shots cuz I do think we have gone a little too far in processing. Like I feel like no matter what phone I pick up from any of these like big companies, like with the exception of like older OnePlus devices, rest in peace, like it's it's your Pixel and your Galaxy and and so on. I mean, those are really the two big players and sort of that's sort of the problem is that they're sort of the only two left, but it's like I do wish I didn't have to like edit every good photo I take to make it
better. Do you know what I mean? Like I that didn't used to happen. And I used to be happy with what would come out. And now I'm always like, especially on Pixel, I'm always like, let me just bump that contrast a little bit. Let me just bump that saturation a little bit. And I wish that is sort of the last thing I wish is that I could have a little bit more control over this without having to control every photo, which is ironic in the AI era to be like, why is this not just like happening automatically for me? Isn't that the whole promise of this phase that Google is in? I mean I use zero cam so I get that back but I know I've talked about it at length so I'm not going to bore anyone with the details again.
It's I'm kind of the opposite actually. I've stopped really editing photos and that I'm my I guess my mindset has become that whatever out whatever picture the camera took is I trust that to be to capture that moment to capture the look to capture the scene. Um so I in the past few years I've kind of stopped editing. M that's so interesting cuz I have found it so again especially on Pixel there are times where I just watch the processing drain the like the saturation out of the shot. Like I it really shows up a lot when I take photos of my orange cat Lionus who like I like sometimes will look like exactly as orange as he does in the shot and then I will watch the shot 2 seconds later like he looks noticeably more blonde and it's
like that's what I have to go in and fix frequently. And it's it's it's things like that where I'm like that color balance isn't right. It's optimizing to try to create a an equal uh balance of brightness across the shot, but it ends up distorting what the photo actually was. But like I think this might be two different This might also be like this might straight up just like a problem is your cat. It might be Linus' fault. It might be I don't know the color temperature of the outside light. LA versus Buffalo. I don't know. I hope that over time we I mean who's this is probably really related to it is who is really leading in the camera look stakes like
it felt like in the early days of cam smartphone camera Sam it's not Samsung uh Apple really kind of drove the narrative of what an image should look like out of a phone and I feel like Google have done it a little bit for maybe three or four years up to maybe Pixel 5 era and then it's almost like have we flipped back to iPhone. Does Samsung just kind of do what the hell they want? I don't really know who's leading there. I think the Hasselblad stuff for OnePlus, we need to touch on that. They were very I love the colors out the out of them, but they never really maximize the setups. I don't know. I think if you look at the entire market, right, like if you open up to everything and we rewind the clock 6 months so that OnePlus is still there, I think
OnePlus under Hasselblad and then also like OPPO's like larger sensors usually. That was probably the more out I have used very few of their phones because they're not sold here. So, uh I would say like the OnePlus 13 was really the last like smartphone camera. That really blew me away when I was using it where I was like, "Oh, I'm actually like I'm taking photos where like the second I hit that shutter, I'm like, damn, I can't believe I got that in a smartphone photo." Um, it truly like it took it from like all of these are good to some of these are incredible, you know, uh- which is a choice on consistency cuz I would say that the OnePlus 13 uh 13's camera was not as uh consistent as what you'll get out of a Pixel.
Yeah. uh but was but had higher highs and I don't know but these if you look at what people are actually buying which is Pixels and to you know I guess and then but really Galaxy devices and um and iPhones like it sort of feels like I don't hear people talking about their cameras a lot anymore to be honest with you. It feels like everybody has kind of accepted that like smartphone photos are like pretty much what they are. I don't think it's really easy to tell the difference between a photo that was taken on a Samsung device and an iPhone and a Pixel anymore. Like they have their own characteristics if you're really a nerd about it, but if you are not even an average user, like I have I am not like a camera nerd the way you
are, Damian, for example. And like and I say that in a loving way to be clear, but like I have a harder time. I will look for things like I, you know, I think Samsung's processing isn't as good and I think specifically they handle motion really poorly, but outside of like little like errors like that, like I have a hard time like fully knowing what came from what when in photo comparisons. I think by the time you've uploaded the image to a social platform, which I still think most people do, I don't I think it gets even tougher to tell. And then I don't know I don't I mean I don't upload to Instagram very often.
And I think it's 2024 since I last did it, which is we've seen it again, I think. Yeah. I find that I don't make tweaks after the fact. I've just put the image as it is. Whereas I wonder how many people are still using those like filters and stuff. I'm surprised more I mean Samsung kind of feels down. That feels absolutely down like seeing how people filter their photos. I think maybe a lot of it is just apathy towards photos. just take it and put it there. Maybe the Gen Z or Gen Zed uh onto something and just tell it as it is and just have it raw and it's fine and like it's unfiltered, but at the same
time, you're still using a piece of technology that allows you to have a curated algorithmic look at whatever you share. So, I don't know. That's maybe a moot point. I'm intrigued to hear what you guys think before we get into a bit more of like software stuff because I think software is really important when we talk about Android. What would you want as your key components of a camera system? Cuz I think for me it would be probably pixel motion and consistency. Uh Hasselblad look from Oppo/Plus and I think maybe feature set from Samsung. I'm not sure or Xiaomi someone like that. Uh I like the Pixel's like relatively simp simplistic UI and everything. I'm happy with that. I think what I would
really want is either a Hasselbl uh color profile, color science, color tuning, uh or and or the um the oh my god, what are they called? The camera uh what are the modes called on iOS? Uh the different like uh photographic styles. Photographic styles. Thank you. Thank you, Abner. I was stuck on the word camera and not photographic. Um, yeah. Something the equivalent to photographics. I think they're really and I think I've said this before, but they're really bad. Like I think I think the it's so confusing to me that Apple has become has continues to hold this like uh reputation of being the like the more simple choice, the easier to learn choice because like things like photographic styles are like
terrible flows for the user. Like they make no sense. Um, but in once you have it set up, I do like that idea of being able to be like Apple has made this, you know, they have their own uh processing that they give to every iPhone user, but then you can kind of go in and tweak it to be as saturated or contrasty or, you know, cool or warm as you kind of want the shots to be. And it can be that default experience that keeps me from having to edit the photos. So, like that's really it's it's an andor situation, but that's sort of where I'm at where I want a little bit more control over what I'm getting out of the photo uh than I think is being offered.
I think my only contribution to add, and it's a weird one, is I like how simplistic the iOS camera app is. The recent redesigns with uh 26 27. Um, I much prefer it over the pixel UI, which I think is actually pretty complicated at this point. Um, but I like it. I don't know. I find I agree it's complicated, but I feel like everything's laid out pretty well. I think it's nice and comfy. I'm in like a super minimalist phase where That's fair. Yeah, iOS Zam to me is too minimalist, but that's that's why I love it.
Uh, but I don't know. iOS feels that's the camera app that looks nice to me. Maybe that's more of a visual and a functional thing, but yeah, that's where I am. I would love to see Google just go ultra controls and just throw a Snapseed into the Pixel camera app. Could you imagine how insane that would be? And I think people would kind of like that. People love Snapseed the app, so why not integrate some more components of it? I don't know why they don't do that. So, if anybody out there from Google is listening, just put Snapseed in your app and make everybody happy. But yeah. Hey
everyone, if you're enjoying Pixelated, don't forget to sign up for 9 to5 Google Pro to gain access to our weekly bonus show, Pixelated Pro. This week, we're talking about viral AI assistance, memories of the old internet, and why people don't seem to click links anymore. Sign up today at 95google.com/pro. away from cameras then because there's software running on it. Where do we think Android is in like it's it's I think Android 17 is kind of in my opinion put it in a position where we cannot expect these big changes all the time. AI will be where we get functionality and rightly or wrongly and it can make up for some gaps.
I feel like maybe 15 we hit a point where it was like we're probably not going to get much year over year and you can kind of see that in these OS updates now. We're waiting for QPR1 and what's QPR1 going to bring to the table? Not nothing like last year, a big visual overhaul. I don't know. Do you think it's in a strong position or like do we are we in a position now where Android is kind of running out of runway for major changes that we probably expected years ago? it. I mean, look, like you use like for all of its faults, is Windows 11 like that radically different than Windows 10, which like was that was it that and I'm skipping eight. Was it that radically
different than seven? Like do you know what I mean? Like we have hit this like I mean like truly a lot of the things I do on my Windows 11 computer are not that different from what I was doing on Windows XP 20 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like we're there with Android where like the only thing that will really happen is like you know every few years the a visual overhaul and it's it's tricky right because we are kind of talking about Google's build of Android specifically when we talk about this because not every company like embraces in fact few kind of embrace the distinct look that they have fully built and instead lean into trying to clone Apple right so Android is in this weird space where it's like
there is Google's flavor of Android and then sort of everybody else despite you know Samsung's build not feeling like Motorola is like they do all kind of take aspects from like the Apple side of the fence for some reason whereas Google like basically holds off on any kind of like liquid glassesque enhancements. Um, but at the same time I sort of look at Google's build of Android as like Android in a way in a world where AOSP is like not really a thing that matters much anymore outside of like very niche communities. Um, you kind of have to look at it like okay then that's what it's it's not stock Android but that is Android as the developer of Android would like you to think of it. And to that extent, I think
it's rock solid. Um, but I do think that they that Google I mean, and they have to, I suppose, uh, based on where the company is charted, but they lean on Gemini a lot as a crutch to make it feel like Android is getting more new features than maybe it is. Like, some of them are new and some of them are just kind of like this is sort of just an extension of like a chatbot. So, in terms of design, uh, as we've all been saying, there is room for Google to push Samsung and other OEMs to actually adopt dynamic cover to actually adopt material to expressive. So, there is room in that regard a bit more so than hardware, which is somewhat of the musing. Um do I think um Samsung and
others will move away from the iOS copy of it? No, I don't. And I don't think any of us do either. So in terms of design, there is stuff to look forward to. And I guess more broadly apps, the third party apps you could say that there is more. No, this is a historical issue. Maybe issue is too strong word, but it they've never really aligned in the way iOS can get its developers to align uh the look and feel, but I don't know. I guess apps is where I want to focus on here. It's I am somewhat of the opinion that and this is a very hot take combined with AI stuff but I kind of think that apps the future is generative UI where people request the apps the functionalities they want the use cases they want and it's
ultimately the OS that makes it for them. Um, I think we are headed towards that point and I don't know what that says about the third party app ecosystem in the long term, but I do imagine a future where there are default apps that stay the same like your calendar, your clock app or whatever. But I feel like what once a user needs something more specific like let's say a trip planning app they could very easily generate that and I think most people would not know the difference I yeah I think that could be I mean we've talked about it before haven't we here and across the website and everywhere else in between is that once if Google does that and kind of decouples Android from the way that it works right now and has a
more a more broad gemini spine where you can ask oh yeah I want a um I want a calendar widget that also integrates my emails that I received on that day. I mean that's a bad example, but that kind of stuff I do genuinely think is where we're going to get those major gains cuz like what are we I feel like I mean currently AI isn't doing anything that I'm that on a phone that I wouldn't do anyway. I asked the Google Assistant to turn on my lights, turn on the you know disable certain switches in my home. I'm still doing that with Gemini right now. I may have a conversation with it. That's kind of cool. But I'm not getting it to control aspects of my phone or I'm not getting it to design
aspects of my phone that you alluded to. Um, Abnner, I do think that once that happens, my opinion of it will change drastically. I.e. I can make my phone my own. And with Gemini, is it create my widget or create a widget? That's that's create my widget. Yes. So create my widget is that first glimpse, isn't it? And I probably think that could be one of the biggest changes we have to Android in what four years maybe four or five years. Yeah, it's they did tease that generative they think that generative UI plays an important role and it will start and it starts to create my widget.
Um I yeah I just think that it's I ironically I think that this generative UI will be more of a thing than controlling your apps with um AI or your voice specifically because I'm still very it's not a solved problem in terms of the technicals in terms of like desktop control is not even there and that's it's more power intensive etc. I don't and we don't have the local models to drop the latency to basically nothing. Um I do think that the first major use of AI will probably be generative UI over app control ironically. Yeah, I think I've tested app automations and I know that's been available in the US for a little bit and I just think that it's too handsoff.
I can maybe understand like Gemini Spark. I'm intrigued to see how that works. I know it's available in preview, isn't it? In the US. Like I don't think that on my phone is something I want to do. I think maybe if I had a desktop and I'm doing like desktopy things, then it's fine. But I think for like phony stuff, I think it's kind of like this little experience where I have all my contacts and it's a bit more personable, isn't it? I don't necessarily would think I want AI to be doing things like booking uh dinner reservations and stuff for me without major oversight and maybe my opinion will change but yeah generative UI feels like a really good way to do it. I think we've we've often complained about
customization options being removed and that would be the ultimate customization wouldn't it? there would be nothing that could compare to it with Android being a being IA the platform the tinkerer's choice of platform. I think if I can push back on a little bit of this um I think the reason I don't see generative apps catching on to the ex I do think I do think they'll they'll be more it'll be more popular than like than aentic tools on Android which I kind of think are a dead end. I just I truly cannot think of a thing I do on my phone that I need an agent to do. I don't The thing I would just caution there that it's not good enough and I think the history of technology is people
ultimately want the convenience, but I don't think we're technically there yet. I Yes. I just It's just I like what task am I just don't frequently do tasks on my phone that are longer than a few minutes, I guess. like I struggle to think of what that ends up being, but I might be an outlier there to talk about the apps thing. I do think that will be a niche community, but I fear that there is and Damian, this is you brought up the exact perfect thing for me to talk about. There will I think this will happen, right? I think we will definitely enter the world of like Google rolling out a uh a suite of tools or maybe like it's one app but it's a suite of tools that allows you to build uh these like
generative AI apps for yourself to use in the way that you can kind of do in like codecs and so on and so forth right now or I guess it's not codeex anymore it's the super app um but I there will be a point where there's essentially a fork in the road and it's either you go, you know, full technical and that guarantees it's going to be niche forever. And I'm not saying you're like coding or whatever, but like if you open it up to do a lot of things, a lot of people are going to be turned off. My the thing that is in my head would be like Tasker, right? Like it's a it's what a power app for users um if you are patient enough to learn how to use it and so on, right? Like that's one route. The other route is I
think more in line with what we've seen from Google on the customization aspect which is okay fine you guys want icon packs on Pixel here's AI generated icons that you can generate yourself there's like five or six presets um maybe we'll add more but you're stuck to this pretty rigid formula as we generate this for you and I think that's the more likely route for this to go and I think that gets more normal people to use it, but I think they end up I think they end up kind of being like, "Oh, okay." and then moving on. And I think enthusiasts, if they go that route, are disappointed in the same way that I think a lot of us are like disappointed in the AI icon pack thing Google rolled out.
Yeah, maybe. I think with good guide rails, I think it could be very useful. I guess it's just it's either I just don't see the middle ground that pleases both camps is what I'm saying. Like I feel like they're going to have to either go more technical, which closes off from the regular people that I think would probably get more use out of this anyway, or they go with guard rails, but then people who are who want these apps to do more are going to feel boxed in and frustrated. Possibly. I think it's kind of like to tie it up in a little bit neat bow. I think that pro it's one of those two things that's going to happen, isn't it? If it's it may they may give us a
broad option where you can just have these guide rails bit like with the custo AI custom UI icons which are not really that custom. It's a little bit like the AI wallpapers thing which is really good way to test it and kind of build it out I guess and see how people use it. Yeah, I kind of think that's that's what will happen. But I think more broadly the smartphone has hit its peak. there isn't really a great deal of true innovation that can happen anymore because it's it hit its peak a few years
ago and now we're just talking like the intricacies of soft intricacies of software and integrating AI into that. I this is going to be really good for ABNA because I know he's very excited for this. The big frontier now is visual UI, i.e. Android XR, Android VR platforms, VR maybe not so much. I'm kind of not sold on that. Like if glasses are the future then we're right on that precipice now, aren't we? right on the very edge before this becomes potentially becomes truly mainstream. Like those meta ones, the perve glasses. I think if we had uh the if we have a visual UI that's within your v field of vision and you can have Android right there and everything at your finger I say fingertips in your eyeballs. I think that might be that
might change my hair. I don't want that. I'm mean I'm I'm very intrigued. I haven't tested it. I maybe I'm don't know if I'm a full convert yet, but there was some aspects of it that I was like, "Okay, I get this. I can see I can definitely see the user value there." I do think that Google's gonna going to do a um going to make a really big move into this space and like make a big swing at it. I am I don't know. I really don't know where the public sentiment is going to like fall on this thing. I think it's the worst thing that could happen for Google right now is that is all of this summer's press around Meta. I really do think it will impact Google's launch to a certain extent because Meta is so
destructive to everything they touch that like when you have three or four bad news stories in a row about Meta's smart glasses that does end up you know the well a little bit. I'm not saying it I'm not saying it's a dead a dead product line, but I do think like Google is going to have to find a way to clean up Meta's mess a little bit when they like first put these on sale. In addition to like, you know, like man, Glass Hole was just enough of an insult to catch on with people 10 years ago, 15 years ago or whatever. And like I'm dying to I maybe most people have memoryhold it to the point where it doesn't matter, but I am curious to know if people are going to be like Google's making glasses. I
remember that. I It was weird and bad and like I don't know. Again, I'm speculating. Like I've no idea how this launch is going to go for them. Um other than the fact that I do know that they are going to have to uh probably talk more about safety and privacy than they would have because of Meta. I do wonder I do wonder though because Google if Google doesn't make their own hardware which I'm surprised that they won't. I wonder if um I wonder if the onus is on Samsung particularly who are probably going to be the first to do it like they have a much they're much more invested in it because they're selling the hardware and Google just the software stewards. From a purely software perspective it
looks like the shift that maybe some people are waiting for. This feels like the most science fictiony shift forward for like tech that I've seen. But when you Yeah, you they are going to have to I don't think it's going to be Google to be honest. I think it's probably going to be Samsung has to deal with the fallout for Meta personally. That's my just my opinion on it because Google aren't the hardware people. Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense? Then again, Rayban does Rayban deal with Does Rayban deal with Meta's issues in the same way? Not necessarily, but I think that the category has been consigned to Raybats like meta glasses is not taking the brunt of it. It is meta ray bands
and I am of the opinion that they've met Meta somehow found a way to run Ray-B bands as a branding and cultural thing and O. Yeah. What are you most excited for then in terms of like the glasses side of things? Like I know that you are probably the most excited of the team of this. Like what your key like obviously we let's just pretend and skip forward so that we're going to get visual the visual side of things first. What is the big key usage that you think this will change from using your smartphone on a day-to-day basis?
I think again I think the I'm still so very invested in point of view cameras being like something that you have to experience it to realize how valuable that is that instant access to a camera. Of course the privacy considerations of that but I think they will outweigh it once you see that how powerful and authentic and immediate those shots are. But in terms of the functionality, I think that I think it's the headphones initially. It's like always wearing headphones and being able to deliver silent information that way. But in terms of display thing, I just think that it's ironically you have to do more technology to get less technology.
Grasses are enough to deliver message notifications. And I don't think audio notifications are going to work for most people because the chance of overhearing it is kind of annoying. But I think that the discrete notifications I think that is really a way to maybe have people use rest of their phones. Do you see it as a supplementary thing? Because I know there's there's talk about um I don't even know who this quote's attributed to. It might be, do you know, it might be um Zuckerberg actually saying that he thinks that phones will be replaced by glasses at some point in the future? I'm not sure if I agree with that. Do you think it's a supplementary thing or do you think it's its own standalone like I will ditch my phone for this?
From a technical standpoint, that is not plausible for I don't know next 5 years. Um again, you don't want to put a 5G radio next to your head. Um so there will always be um offhanding processing to the phone but I think in the further future like the idea that instead of looking at a laptop you the screen imagine a laptop quality screen always floating in your line of view. I think that could be absolutely revolutionary. It has the potential to replace your phone, but until we can know if we can work through these cultural stigmas around it, especially like we have a technology right now is in a state where people kind of want the rest of it. I think there is you can't
discount the phone for the foreseeable future and I think that will always remain the default thing for people as the primary computing device for I say a good 10 years. Do you know what I think uh the really makes it so that smart glasses are more like a smartwatch um than a replacement for a smartphone? Um not obviously you can kind of replace a smartphone with a smartwatch a little bit or at least you can leave your phone at home. But um I think as long as and I don't see this changing anytime soon as long as messaging is as prominent a thing as it is. Like I just don't and the I don't I don't have long conversations through my smartwatch and like I'm not going to do it through my through smart glasses
either. Like I really think that like the ability to type is underrated and you can't do that on smart glasses. I really think that like having something tactile, even a touch screen is yet what I think in like the future where um your glasses can replace your laptop screen. Yes, you'll be able to type on any surface, but that is still far future stuff. I walk around like you know like I just I agree with you Abner. I'm more on your side for replacing something like a laptop or like essentially being a little bit more of a, you know, maybe it's not all of the processing power. It still has that handshake, but it is like you don't look at your laptop screen anymore. I'm with you more on that. But like when I
think about like what I use my phone for, it's it's messaging is far and away the number one use case for my phone. And like I'll send voice texts in the car. I don't mind doing that. And like I wouldn't mind, you know, if I was walking somewhere with smart glasses on and someone messaged me like, "Hey, you on your way?" And I would absolutely reply from with my voice from my smart glasses, like, "Yeah, on my way." But like, you're not going to want to have uh uh you're not going to want to have, you know, group chat like conversations about meaningless whatever like through your glasses. I think that's point. Yeah. To me, it's a little bit like we really haven't seen people be like, I'm going all in on just my
smartwatch, despite the fact that has a similar level of freedom and access to smart glasses. It's obviously not right in front of your face, but there's something to that. And uh and you can go cellular and all of that. You can you can leave you can do everything from your phone and in fact do more because like you know, I was sitting here wondering if you went full smart glasses, how am I doing mobile payments, right? Am I taking my glasses off tapping them? I don't know. Head button the pad. Um there's things like that, but I it might be QR codes. I mean, everybody loves QR codes. Just ask restaurants from 2020 to 2023. Um, but I guess to me it's just like I feel like if smart glasses were really going
to kill phones like for sure. Uh or if we would see more people relying on just smart watches right now. Yeah, it's a really good point. Oh, okay. Let's let's kind of give ourselves a report card then for where Android is currently when we wrap this up because I feel like we've had a full wave of emotion there that talking about our favorite platform or at least most people's favorite platform. If you're listening to this, it should be as well. Um I genuinely would be intrigued to see what you guys think. I'll let you guys go first and I'll give you where I think that they are. Let's do a report car. Let's go what? A to C. Is it C? Cad grade? I don't know sees a passing but let's go to let's appreciating
Android as a whole yeah Android as a platform the entire thing end to end phones glasses VR you name it we got TV as well thrown in which I think is untapped potential or there's a lot of tapped potential there B a B there's there's there's things I can probably think of to improve on most places besides the phone uh and so I think a B is a solid grade I don't disagree with that. I think B is there's always room for improvement, but I think the current state of the is absolutely fine and refractive of a mature platform. Okay. I'm going to go against the grain then. I'm going to say a minus. And I'm only going to say a minus because I think that we reached a point where Android has proven that it's as competent as any other platform out
there. It can go into places that even iOS couldn't. Definitely can't do. I'm intrigued to see what happens with uh Android on desktop platforms in the coming months. We didn't we barely even touched on it. I know we've been a little bit negative about Google book, but I'm I think when Abnner's kind of brought me around when we talked briefly about um generative UI and generative apps, I do think there's a definitely some untapped potential there. And if people can tailor their experiences to what they want and especially a technical product like that, I think it could be really powerful. I'm I'm guessing we're on the we're kind of on the eve of uh Pixel well not quite but
we're a couple of weeks away from Pixel 11 launch and I think we have to put a positive spin on it because I think there's a lot of things to be positive about. Maybe we've been uh our exper well our expectations have been dampened because we're getting a similar phone than we've seen in the past two years. But Android the platform's going from strength to strength. We might lose a few players here and there but yeah Android is in a good spot and I'm excited for the future. Yeah, it's a good place to leave it. I think it's a good place to leave it. Yeah, let's head over to our pro a little pro enclave. Talk a little bit more random things. Maybe get into this a little bit as well. Uh I'd love to have you join us. Go check out
the links down in the show notes if you do want to join 95 Google pro. It helps support us, support what we do here. You might get some kind of insight into our little interesting lives outside of tech as well. And I'd love to have you come listen. So, come on over and we'll continue the conversation. Bye. Thanks for listening to Pixelated, a 9to5 Google podcast. If you enjoyed the show, we ask that you rate and review it on the podcast platform of your choice and help spread the word by sharing the show with friends or on social media.
