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Welcome to Pixelated episode 124. I'm your host, Will Saddlebert. This week, it's a double header as we dive into the announcement of Motorola's flagship return in North America, the Signature 27. Is a $1,600 nonfoldable the comeback we'd hoped for this company, or is this device simply doomed by rising component costs? Then, with Apple's Home View smart display set to launch next week, we look at Google's lack of a modernized competitor and wonder just what we would want to see from a relaunch in 2027. It all starts right after this message from our sponsor, Proton. Grab your phone and take a look at your app drawer. You've probably found yourself relying on a lot of the same old apps and services that you've had
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Pixelated listeners can save 30% on an annual subscription to Proton Unlimited, which includes 500 GB of cloud storage, custom email domains, a dedicated customer support team, and so much more. It's what's best for your current phone, not whatever you were using in 2013. Upgrade to Proton today and save 30% on your annual subscription by heading to proton.me/95google or by clicking the link in the show notes. Thanks to Proton for sponsoring Pixelated. So, I think this time of year usually, oh, I say usually a few years on, we would be kind of getting our hands on Pixel devices, having these new flagship phones, really getting our teeth into it. That's all been and gone. We've had
a nice summer. We had that period of time. But now we have potentially a new returning player into this top end of the market. Motorola's just unveiled their signature 27. I think it's a terrible, terrible name. I have some thoughts on the design. There's some a lot of pixel-like features being added to this phone, which is very, very interesting. So, I guess it comes full circle there. Will, you mentioned something last week on the podcast about the design of this. Please tell me what you think of this because then I'm gonna completely U-turn on you and just go whole hog while I like this design.
I just I to be honest with you, I actually feel like the ball is in your court because I don't understand what you could possibly think is good about this camera bar design. I quite I think we don't get enough really weird, boggly, silly designs anymore. It feels like this really cool hybrid of like there's a little bit of OnePlus thrown in there, the like 11 era, and then there's a little bit of just like OnePlus 10 and then OnePlus 10 and 10 Pro and then maybe some like older LG style phones all thrown in the mix. Maybe thrown in a classic Moto like texture to it. I can't hate it for that reason.
I would entertain this if not for the BNO logo in the dead center of the camera bar. I think the second you have that logo like I could I'm not saying I would even agree with you. I'm just saying I would entertain I would go I would walk down this path with you and think about whether it being silly goofy actually kind of comes around to making it good. But that's that logo is the size of the Motorola logo. Yeah. I mean that's a little bit weird, isn't it? Come on. It's a $1600 smartphone, guys. This is not like and it's not a sticker you can just pull off. Like it sucks. I hate that.
Now on video because my reaction is it's just a Pixel 6 Pro. Yeah, I get I'm getting a little bit of that. I can't quite pinpoint every single component of what I think this phone looks like. It's almost like a Franken phone in a good way. That's why I kind of like it. It's different. It's a different isn't good is my stance on this. like different can be good, but I don't know. I'm I'm not about it. I am reviewing this phone. I have a review unit on the way, so maybe in person it my opinion will change. I so hope you eat those words and you could become team me. I'll tell you the logo thing is not changing. I really hate that there's a BNO logo on it. Like I don't think it needs to be there. Um and I it and again like that is
something I am kind of willing I'm more willing to put up with on cheaper smartphones. This is $1,600. Like, I don't get that logo out of there. Like, it's clearly not like whatever subsidy came with sponsoring this phone is not being passed down to the consumer. Or it is and we're in trouble because Well, I mean for the main I think like obviously Moto haven't really been in this high-end game for a long time, have they? They've done a few foldables recently, haven't they? Would he class highend? I'm not really sure. complicated by the fact that they have technically Motorola never stopped making flagship chips. They just stopped selling them in North America.
Um which means we kind of stopped talking about them, right? The last um non Razer F or flagship in the US sold in the US by Motorola was the Edge Plus 2023, right? Um that was over three years ago. It was the summer of 2023. I remember reviewing that phone. I I actually really liked it. I remember writing uh articles at Android Police being like, "Hey, I think Motorola between this and the Razer because that was also the year that they the Razer as we know it came back." Um and I was like, "I don't I Motorola is kind of on to something like their software is experience is totally solid." Um you know, not the updates policy, but the core OS was basically just AOSP, but it was fine. um you know the hardware is solid, the price is good, like there's there's
something here and if they stick on that path, like I'm really excited to see what they do next year. And then um and then since then they have just unfoldables in the US and cheaper devices, but um yeah, we stopped seeing Motorola flagships in the US and I think that's been a bummer because there have been, you know, I've gotten to try a couple of them at hands-on events. they will kind of launch them alongside the Razer and you can try them even though that they're obviously not going to come to my local Best Buy. Um, and I've always been like this is these are nice like these are nice pieces of hardware. I would like to see more competition for phones in general in the US. Um, and so I'm super happy that this is here as an option. I
don't expect it to sell well at all because of the $1,600 price point, but let's I think we should set that aside because otherwise the spec sheet is pretty it is pretty impressive. Like there's a lot going on here up to including a 7,000 mAh hour battery. Like one is back, you know, like that's what this feels like. This feels like the OnePlus 15 successor we're not going to get from OnePlus. Do you think some do you think there's some more like cultural I guess c cultural currency with Motorola in the US versus OnePlus? Like I think Motorola are they the third are they technically the third player in the US market? Motorola in terms of like overall mobile
mobile in general is it not Apple Samsung Motorola in the US if I remember off the top of my head it probably is like I don't think Google has surpassed just because there is the sheer amount of Moto G devices. I mean there's five released every year and they hit every price point similar to Samsung's A series. Um yeah. So I believe you're correct on that unless the numbers have shifted in the last like 12 months. Um and even then they'd be tight. Um but at the same time that doesn't translate to like brand cache necessarily. Like the amount of times I would be reviewing a Motorola phone, especially around the time period I'm talking about like 3 years ago. Like I've never gotten comments about like they still make
phones about anybody else. Like it's just and like I guess who else would it be about? But like you know when I had a OnePlus device and I was like oh it's a OnePlus phone like people were would mostly just be like oh I haven't heard of them face like I've never right like Motorola it was like it wasn't it's like everybody's heard of them. They thought they had died and so I don't know if that's I look the Razer obviously again I'm talking about the sort of the start of the current Razer journey that has evolved over time. Although I don't know. I it felt like what they released this year like really just landed with a thud because it was essentially reheated hardware at more expensive prices. Um and the design
has not changed since the time period I'm talking about. But um you know, you can't say that about this. This is a completely new phone compared to the last Motorola flagship we saw in the US. And I'm so curious to try it out because my opinion on their software has changed. I don't think their software is as good as it was a few years ago, but the hardware specs I'm seeing here are so impressive and especially I mean this tandem OLED display that is rated at 12,000 nits of peak brightness. Like I just want to know what that's like, right? Like I don't know. I'm just I do think this might be a really premium experience.
It just has that premium price tag to match. I mean, let's let's roll off the specifications then, so people aren't aware of this. So, it's is it a 6.8 inch phone? So, the kind of max XL type phone that you expected. Uh, it has a Snapdragon 8 Elite Extreme Gen 6. I still need I still think that Qualcomm need to sort out their naming philosophy. It's absolutely disgusting. It's terrible. Um, so it has that it's so funny that they did such a big deal about when they switched to like 8, seven, six, and they were like it they were straight up like we know our names are bad, like we're fixing it. I know I've talked about this
before, but it's it's so funny that they arguably it took like two years for them to be not just in the same spot again, but like probably a worse spot. I think it's probably in a worse position now. Honestly, if you're telling me 8 Elite Extreme Gen 6 or like 8.97, give me 8.97. You know what? Like I just give me the three numbers. It's faster than hype. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So 12,000 nit peak brightness display. I wonder if that was is that won't be sustained. I don't think.
Uh it's coming with 12 GB of RAM, which I think is kind of the thing we're going to have to deal with over the next 12 months is a lot of phones are going to come with 12 GB of RAM. Um there's been devices I've tested and so far so good. It doesn't seem to be as much of a problem, but it is disappointing that you get a lower RAM configuration than the previous Max or Pro version. But again, we just said Motorola hasn't existed at the high end in the US for a while. So, it's maybe not as egregious in that respect. Um, it looks like it comes with only one storage skew though, 512 GB. I think some people probably take a downgrade
there to get the RAM for better. I don't know. I'm probably spitballing there. I think I would rather have more RAM for longevity. uh 7,000 mAh battery which is pretty darn impressive. I think is that would that be one of the biggest in the US? Biggest phones in the US that you can go I would say. So I can't think of anything bigger that is sold like that you don't have to import into the US. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. So 50 megapixel main camera, 50 megapixel ultrawide, 200 megapixel three times telephoto, and a what they call a dedicated action sensor and 50 megapixel front camera. So, at least on paper, those camera specs sound impressive, but
I've never been truly impressed with what Motorola has done on the camera side of things for a long time. I think the last time I had they had a decent camera was on the Moto X. What's that, 2014? Well, I actually liked that was part of why I liked the Edge Plus was that I thought the camera was better than people were giving it credit for or actually that's not true. I think people did give it credit, you know, other reviewers. It was just one kind of ignored, you know, obvious and two like I think there was just no expectation about what the camera performance on a Motorola phone would be like that like and then oh man and then now that I'm thinking about the timeline like 3 months later the OnePlus open
comes out and that like even excluding the fact that it's a foldable like that phone's camera was really interesting and the stuff that was really good about that bled into the 12. So, I see why like that was completely memory hold that the Edge Plus had a solid like camera on it, but it did when you take a 4-year break or whatever and like that's it's going to be forgotten. I mean, so I mean, if you just look at the specification sheet, this does read very much like and I think that's why I kind of tied it to a little bit of OnePlus at the start is that there definitely feels like we have this gap
from what OnePlus were doing with all these high-end specification phones. This feels like it sits right in that bracket for the kind of person who would be looking at a OnePlus phone. The other two specifications on this spec list are IP68 and IP69 rating, which is yeah, we need to see more phones with that. If they're going to cut corners elsewhere, give us IP68 and IP69 ratings. Uh I think that means hot water is protected against and there's a little bit more like dust and water pressured water ingress, which is always good. Yeah. But I think one of the most interesting aspects that we you mentioned it briefly about software.
This is supposedly going to be it's going to come with seven years of software updates which I think is a first for a moto device. It will be in North America for definitely. Does the Razer Fold might have Does it have seven? Okay. Well, we'll we'll we'll we'll this is a new thing for them like this year. I would say like they are find they have finally gotten the message that this matters. Uh and especially if you're going to ask $1,600 for a smartphone. I will say the timeliness matters here too. And I don't know if we've heard about if they have a policy for how fast these are going to come out.
I think that's going to be the biggest problem, isn't it? I know there's that there's some all sorts of other software we want to talk about because this is going to be compatible with graphine OS. We'll get into that in just a moment. I think with a lot of these companies that are promising these updates, I do wonder who's holding them accountable for it. Like is it just the user base? Is Google holding these companies accountable to say you have to get those seven updates out? What happens if they don't? I've always found it fascinating that it's started to become like we initially had the three years and the four years and the five years. Now we're at seven years more or less across the board.
This is Google dragging all the partners across the line. Uh but what you said about the enforcability is a good point. Um the other software thing I find interesting is uh this is a Gemini intelligence phone. Uh following Samsung and Pixel, we have features like Rambler because Motorola actually uses Gboard versus Samsung. And I feel like at any time Samsung could get Ramber if they switch to Gboard, but they don't and they probably never will. Um yeah. Um uh there's the app autom app automation stuff. Um Gemini intelligence and but the biggest thing is create my widgets is launching on this um where you can use Geni AI to make custom home screen widgets. It's a bit like the Google book
experience that technically launched on the Google book first. Uh but this is the first time on phones and it's it's not nothing. They're fun. Do we think this is do we think that it's a weird place to put this though? I feel I feel like you just even saying it and obviously reading about it is it just feels like a really weird place for a company such as Motorola who maybe doesn't have that market share to launch with these functionalities ahead of some other brands. It I mean then again we're in this like kind of lull period where we're not getting as many phone launches as we used to. Do you think it's kind of
like this felt like now I'm thinking out loud, this feels like the only phone launch Google could tie this to before S27 in January or something like that? No, you're not wrong because the other thing to consider is that since Motorola has that stock Pixel Android aesthetic, like I'm sure when uh Google made the create my widget feature, it will fit in with Pixel and Moto versus Samsung, which has their own they specifically have their own widget language. So, it does make sense on Motorola. does make sense when it comes to Pixel, but Samsung, that'll be something to look at once that happens, actually. Hey folks,
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95google.com/pro. Yeah. How do we think um Moto are even going to differentiate? Are they going to are they just going to leave it as it will look on a Pixel? Because at the same time, it's almost like as pixel if you use a Pixel like most of us do is a preview of what we're going to get. So, it's almost like, huh, thanks Moto for showing off the functionality we're going to get in a couple of weeks time potentially with that QPR2 release maybe in December. Who knows? I'm I'm kind of hopeful that it comes because we've been waiting so long. It's what Google said it would have been summer for some of these features. But yeah, it's um it is a weird it is a really weird launch period to have a phone such as this, such as expensive phone and have
all of these potentially pixel features like getting warmed up maybe test tested first. I don't know. Yeah. launching in just before Thanksgiving. Who does that really? That is a late launch in the cycle in the year. M I mean I guess some of the functionalities as well though has been like kind of I'm guessing it'll have been tested thoroughly anyway and this is like kind of they can get it out to a wider international market maybe. I don't know that it the whole machinations are really odd because it's almost like where else could Google have gone rather than just that they have to wait they kind of have well I don't know maybe they don't because they have had pixel drops in November before but it almost
feels like they kind of have to wait until December. I don't know maybe I'm reading into that a little bit too deep. I'm not sure. Well, I mean, pre-orders have open now. Uh, $1,599. That is a lot of money to ask for any phone, let alone one with a Moto badge on it and one with a camera bar that is going to be as divisive. I was going to say divisive for sure. Yeah, she has bulky and heavy in your pocket. I that the last time I thought about that, but it that just feels Yeah, the thickness I guess is it's like 8 mm, which is although I don't I can't tell if it's where is that
measuring it from? Is it measuring? They never boot the bump. They But like with this one, it's like the bump is built into the chassis. You know what I mean? Like they should count it anyway. Um 227 grams is heavy. That's a heavy phone uh in modern times. and even at this size like um yeah it's it's going to be like a weapon in your hand but it's uh you know it's that's the style right like that is what people want is just like the biggest baddest thing around especially if Motorola is trying to win over whatever remaining OnePlus fans exist in the US or exist in North America um you know and honestly the rest of the world but at the same time at $1600
Like I think the biggest thing that drew you know like power users loved OnePlus but I think it was the price that got people in the door and this is not OnePlus. This is not flagship killer pricing. No I mean I think for the price that you're potentially paying for this you might be better off looking at some of the foldable phones out there. I think the fold 8 has been below way below this. I think you might get more utility from that than you would this the biggest issue and look this phone will get sales. All Motor Motorola phones get sales. would probably be able to pick it up regularly for $1,300. But like, and I felt this about Google, too, and like we've seen so many
sales so far on the Pixel 11. Um, I think the 11 Pro is like 800 bucks right now at Amazon. Um, like I guess I just don't I would rather I know sales get people in the door, but it's like I think the shock of the sticker price is going to turn people away from even considering it on sale. I think if Motorola just dropped their like constant sale efforts, price this at the $1,300 it's going to constantly be priced at uh and went with it and just like I think it would maybe wow people a little bit more. But um I don't think anybody would be like, "Oh, thank god. Wow, what a deal." But I think everything I've seen about this phone from reactions on online uh today with its announcement has been basically
focused about the price. Like no one can even get past the price or the design. M and it does sound weird as well. This is actually first just going back to what is going to go happen with the software in future is this could be one of the most expensive graphine OS supported phones ever made that isn't affordable. So um this is going to be Moto's first device that supports graphine OS. So if you're the kind of person who wants to have the privacy elements of graphin OS I know that Moto announced a partnership earlier this year I can't remember when it was to work with the graph foundation NBC I was going to say It was at a trade show. I couldn't remember which one. I do wonder what that is going to do to
some of the functionality that is in this device. You know what I mean? Like if you get if you have the plain vanilla graphine OS, you are not going to get you're not potentially going to take advantage of all of the certain hardware functionality within the device unless there is something that is added with it. And obviously the kind of person who gets graphine OS, you maybe you don't want Gemini intelligence, you don't want Rambler, you don't want those kind of things. So, I'm really intrigued to see how that changes the potential perception of it. If you're a privacy focused person, are you going to buy a $1,700 or $1,600 phone? I would say no. I think the kind of people who
do that are going to get last year's phone and route it and do it themselves. I don't know. I don't really get the value ad for someone potentially picking this one up over a Pixel. It seems really at odds to me anyway. No, I don't think it's I don't think it moves the needle either way. Um that said uh I have to be honest and I we've talked about this but this is the point in my life that I have been the most like just intrigued by the de Google space and like what is going on over there and so um you know I mentioned I'm reviewing this um I don't have a unit yet but uh I will uh I think I have to try graph because I have to try graphine switch to it. Well,
and I just I' I've never really used I mean, that's not true. I've I've at least used one uh privacy focused device. Like I definitely reviewed that uh Doogle Pixel tablet at when I was at AP. Uh but I've never used a phone with one and I've never used like a flagship device experience like this. So like I don't know. I'm I'm very curious to see what it's like to like switch to that like especially because this is so officially supported with like a real partnership. And so I don't know. I'm I'm It's got my attention even if I don't think it's going to Wait, does Graph have the Play Store? No, you can if you want to sideloadad it. I believe I don't know if it's a little bit I'm trying to remember
when I last used it. It's about three two three years ago when I reviewed it. At that point in time, it was very bare bones. So you having to use Aurora Store. Um you can have sandboxed Google Play, I think, if I remember correctly or unless I'm thinking of Lineage OS. But the experience is the experience reminds me of the early days a little bit of Android almost like you are looking for workarounds for certain things. Say you've come over from iOS like I did in the early days to to Nexus series. It's like oh how do I get an experience akin to this? And I kind of like that aspect of it. I kind of like the make it yourself approach. I do wonder how things have changed in the last six to eight months because obviously some of these AI
development tools have really pushed open source software forward. some of it maybe not for the best but again at the same time like if it's a privacy focused ROM that goes on a product from Motorola what's the there's some sort of there has to be a catch there surely like you can't like where why would Motorola do this they would want you to shovel you into their services and their platforms so and I mean I'm not saying that there's there's any privacy issues there it just sounds seems like a weird thing for Moto to do unless they are genuinely caring about their users having this option which is great to see. So, I don't know, maybe I'm being too skeptical, but at the same time, yeah.
Yeah. What if you buy this phone and you can't utilize half of the things that are kind of maybe need access to the Play Store and access to certain services from Moto? It seems a bit of like a weird way to spend your money. Unless, like you say, will constantly on sale. I could see it under $1,000. This does seem like a pretty darn good on paper device. I guess you'll know in a few weeks, but you'll have to let us know how you get on. You'll have to try graphine. I do think it is something that people should try and get an idea of and a handle over. Yeah, I'm definitely going to need to get a little familiar with graphine, I think, before I do it. So, like, for example, I was like I hadn't even
really considered the Play Store because I'm just sort of thinking about this out loud now. Um, it does have sandboxed Play Store support. So, you can get the Play Store on there fully sandboxed. does seem like uh no matter what you are sacrificing banking apps. So that seems to be the one thing that because yeah that would be me out because I don't carry a wallet anymore. Literally just phone for everything. Phone for my car key, phone for payments. So um yeah, I think that would that's one of the reasons why graphine I think at the time I tried it on a Pixel 7a and uh hey it the performance was exceptional. Like it definitely uh made the phone fly but yeah, getting rid of the banking apps would be a no-go for me. mine, you know, because I found a
list of uh banking apps that do have compatibility and it looks like obviously I'm not going to say which one and thank thankfully the US list is long enough that I don't think I need to be too worried about outing myself, but uh but yeah, my bank's my bank is on here as apparently working. So, um not that I use the banking app for payments um necessarily. I use it mostly to check my balance or whatever. Venmo uh works as well I'm seeing. So like I would be I should be good uh in terms of making like friendly payments because Venmo is what everybody I know is on. So yeah. I think that's a good I think I think it will be a good opportunity and we when you've done it will we have to we definitely have to we dive for sure.
We have to do a deep dive. I mean that's Motorola Signature 27. It's a weird I kind of I don't mind Motorola Signature. I think that's kind of a cool sounds like so much like a car more than any other phone name. You mentioned that. That's actually quite true to be fair. We maybe we should start leaning into, you know, car model names like I where's the Motorola like Tucson, you know, like where like come on like the I'm trying to think of other cars and nothing is coming to my head right now. Like I'm trying to think of There we go. I was trying to think of a Kia vehicle and I'm like I nothing is coming to my brain with Kia. I don't know. I don't know why I went to key voltage.
Perfect. Motorola model one would be good. Motorola model one would be good, but I know for a fact that they get sued into oblivion for that. But yeah, give us uh they even give us some uh UK car names. Oh, so one that you I don't know if you have this in the US. We have Ford Fiesta. Ford Fiesta, which is like the smallest car. Ford Fiesta. Samsung. The Samsung Fiesta. Samsung Fiesta would be phenomenal. That would be a phenomenal name for a phone. I feel like LG probably had that name, you know. I feel like that seem LG were the kings of like um car name phones. They had the
Stilo which or Stylo which to me is instant. I'm thinking of a small tiny little car like a two door like the first car kind of thing when you're like I get in the US is it 15 in most states to drive it' be like 17 years here. So yeah. Uh, long may we get more phones with car names uh attached. I think uh I'm not talking about BMW editions like they do in China and all those Porsche editions. They don't count. Uh let's get some funny names out there cuz I feel like we're missing out on cool stuff. I would buy a Motorola 911 immediately. I believe it's 911. 91. That's how they 911 which I don't know. I don't know if maybe in the US it's marketed differently because of the connotations of that but I think it is I'm thinking about the Roomia now that
was basically Roomia's uh Nokia's Microsoft's naming scheme for the didn't their researcher showed people what numbers are better or whatever hey guys I just before we move on from 91 I just I want to send you this is I'm not even joking one of the most beloved wing spots like if you are looking at rankings of wing places in Buffalo. This is one of them. This is frequently top five. Sent it in the Slack chat. Very good. Obviously not named after that tragedy. I'm sure you'll put that on screen now, right? Uh for Yeah. For the audio listeners, it is uh it is the 9/11 Tavern.
911 Tavern. It's 119 to the rest of the world. Yeah. Now, it isn't American. It's it's 119, but we do know it's 911. Um, but my favorite place in the world is 7-Eleven. And I think on that note, we'll leave these bad naming conventions on you need to caveat that. Only the Japanese ones. Yes. Uh I think they're quite good in Korea as well, I believe. But and uh certain parts of like Thailand and Vietnam. So I haven't been there so I can't comment. But yeah, the Japanese ones are fantastic. Um, I think phones aside, we have very little else happening in the Android space at this time of year, which is very common as well. Over the last few years, we usually be talking Google in depth. I'm sure we'll be talking all things pixel updates in the
coming weeks and months. But one thing that has kind of like struck me straight away is we had the home view announcement a few weeks ago. We've had the HomePod mini as well, HomePod Mini 2. Kind of puts us in their perspective of like what the hell is Google doing with their like smart home hardware. And we haven't heard anything for a while, have we? We've Yeah, they've refreshed some of the cameras in the Nest lineup, but Google really need to take control of this. Do they need to really take control of this now? Yeah, it's the their most recent thing is the Google Home speaker. It looks like this holiday season they're dropping $20 off. So, it's down to 79 um for the entire holiday season. Um
yeah, that was what announced in June. Yes, June. End of and it's that's it. That was their only entry this year. Um, so I guess the one thing to factor is that the Gemini thing was a reset and like they started the program for third party Gemini stuff, but it's not there yet. And all their work on Gemini has been primarily focused on speakers versus smart displays. There have been some improvements here and there, but it's it's really not at the same state as where the speakers are currently. But yeah, in light of the home view and Apple finally making something and Amazon's continuous I think they're called fire this. No, what are they called? Alexa Echo Show.
Echo. Yes, Echo. Echo shows. Um, yeah, it's Google's lineup first party and third party is a bit of hacking. Do you think like I don't know if you guys we will remember. I don't know why I said well you guys remember this but the kind of and I want to say ill- fated smart display kind of push where we had partners like JBL I think LG did a few LG did a tablet that was also a smart display like it always kind of feels like the Pixel tablet was almost a rebuttal to that failure almost like they released a Pixel tablet that was also this smart display and a tablet in twoin one and I kind of always was of the expectation that Apple might just do hey the iPad docs and we will do our own take on this. But it that kind of hasn't
materialized and this home view feels like that halfway house. Yeah. And they have no idea what the iPad is supposed to be. So how are they supposed to do that? Like but genuinely like I think this is half the problem is that they like the iPad needs to be like the entertainment machine for your fouryear-old but also like a workhorse powerhouse for CEOs and executives for CEOs in business class. Let's be clear, like but like genuinely like and I understand that the hardware tiers are different for those two things, but the software experience between them needs to support both extremes and everything in between. And I just like don't think iPad OS as it exists is very good at any of it right now. Um and then
so if you were to just try to add on the smart display stuff like oh my god it would just feel like I think it would collapse. I genuinely think the platform would collapse. There's so many things there. Um the Duo uh actually the Duo's multitasking is much easier than the iPad and I think that like I feel like iPad OS 28 will probably like take a lot from the Duo and I think that's going to be a good thing. But uh that's a discussion for another day. But yeah, it's the context is that the Pixel Tab, like Damian said, it that did seem like it was going to be Google's strategy for the smart display and then that completely failed. Um, it's
I and nobody no other partner tried it either, which is interesting. That's what's really frustrating. I feel like we just talked about Motorola for 40 minutes or so or half an hour or so, but like it almost feels as though a partner like Motorola and Lenovo, Lenovo in general because do you not think they would do that? I feel like Samsung kind of want to do their own with Samsung, we do our own thing kind of thing. Do you know what I mean? We don't bother with the smart home stuff. We have smart things. Like we want you to talk to your fridge, not to your tablet. Like it feels a little bit like that to me. It almost feels as though it's ripe for I Hey, call me kind of excited about something that's never
going to happen. But I feel as though it's ripe for a rebirth of that smart display. Like if Apple think that it's I mean then again, I went on a rant on the last episode about Apple and their lack of direction. If Apple thinks it's time to integrate Smartome more readily with dedicated hardware, then surely they have a signal to have done that. They're not going to throw something at the wall without thinking about it, surely. But at the same time, like, can Google re rebirth their smart display lines or just say, "Hey, we cut our losses." I think Samsung could have if they did a tablet a tab s with um like smart display software. I think they could have been they could have had something, but then again, this is a
company that can't even release the Samsung Cauldron. Um which was it was a cauldron. It's hilarious. He was he was okay. Um anyways, um yeah, but I think Okay, so I guess this is my question about smart displays and especially with Apple's entry. Are smart displays supposed to be high-end or cheap as hell? Uh do people I think where I've landed on is just people want just want a photo frame. That's it. I think that's the maybe an intelligent photo frame, but I'm 100% with you. Like I think Okay, I don't know about the hardware necessarily, but in terms of the price tag, like yes, cheap. Like I The Home View is $300, right?
Yeah. I think that's obscene. I think that's absolutely obscene for what it cost. Yeah. $300 um for the home view. And I would say that is the absolute like top of the price point that I think this thing should be sold at. Like I don't like for what it can do. I also think weirdly it does too much. Like I don't think you need the camera here or like maybe you need it maybe you need like a really bad sensor. But like who car like oh my god how many times do these companies need to try like every company needs to be like we're gonna make you video chat in your kitchen while you're cooking breakfast. Nobody ever does this.
They have FaceTime. I think that's there is an episode of Modern Family where they spend the entire episode trying to convince you that the Facebook portal is going to be how you talk to people now. And like I forgot about that. RIGHT. AND THAT WAS SO LONG AGO LIKE that was precoid and like we got knock it like I just don't think it happens and like I don't know like I'm probably picking the wrong component full reference on the price. Yeah. Um okay so the echo shows go from 99 349 and 499. So, so this is 16 and 15 in, right? This is the issue though is that these companies like can't not feature creep, right? Like it has to be a bunch of things to everybody and it also
has to be centered around like being a proactive assistant. And to your point, Abner, I think most people would be perfectly happy with a photo frame that shows them the weather, their calendar, maybe definitely reminders, maybe incoming emails, the time. Yeah, like the basic stuff. But then like I don't think these things need a lot of power. I don't use the smart like I don't use Gemini on my Oh my god, what's the big one? Home Maxub. Nestub Max. Jesus. Um, you know, to fix the name too if Google does another one of these. Um, but like I don't use like I don't need any of that stuff and I understand it has to be there, but like I don't know. Like I think if you
if a company made like a perfectly fine like 1280 by 800 display that could show your photos on your kitchen screen and show you a recipe and your calendar and that was like it like the stuff I just outlined and that was it. I think it would be a big hit at Christmas and you wouldn't need to fill it with RAM and processing power to be able to do all of this stuff. It definitely feels as though there's been multiple missed opportunities with not refreshing the NestHub line. Like was it 2020 was a second gen Nest Hub? And like I think in terms of the hardware and the size, maybe the speaker is not immense, but I think with the Nest Hub, Google re like they hit a home run so early with that
form factor. Like it's cute. It's it fits into a home decor system. Like it's the one piece of in air quotes true technology save a TV that my partner's like I'm happy for you to put it in the living room. It's it's literally pride of place. Like it is a photo a digital photo frame where we link our photos to it. And I think that's the power of it is that as a photo frame not necessarily as a smart assistant. It's almost like that's secondary. I think I agree with you will it's almost like it doesn't need tons and tons of processing power but to have that linkage is it linkage the link between my Google photos library and my partner's Google photos library potentially my family members like we can go on vacation or we can go on
holiday whatever it is and take images and they end up in the living room by the time we've we've we landed like I think that in and of itself is the value of a smart in air quotes smart display it doesn't need to be that smart to do it I think like you say the secondary things like setting timers, uh maybe getting a recipe is kind of nice, but I'm I'm kind of the person who cooks with a with an actual cookbook. I like a I do physical books. Nice. I think those are the things that Google really did genuinely nail straight out the gate. Like I think they really did well with those things to begin with. Maybe they're maybe they're a little bit like it's kind of long in the tooth now. And
I know that the Pixel tablet was intended to be that follow-up, but I just don't think that the price point helped. I don't think that the underpowered nature of the tablet helped. I think having something that is like in air quotes low power and doesn't need all the updates and you're not wor worried about it. Is it a oneanddone thing, sits in the kitchen corner, sits in the living room and does that thing exceptionally well is really valuable. And I do that's why I think that the Nestub line they really did rest on the laurels a little bit because it maybe because it went out so well so early. I don't know. and I don't know what I don't know what a future Nest hub could look like. I think it probably is the exact same product with a slightly better processor.
Yeah, it absolutely is. It's not going to be what I am pitching here, which is a shame, but I really think and maybe you know this is sort of my isn't it? It is. It will be. It'll just It's just a nesttop followup. The exact same thing. It's gonna have to be It's going to want to be the Jedi. Yeah, I agree with you. It's going to want to be the home view. It's going to want to Gemini. Oh my god. They're going to position. They're going to be like it's the center of your home everyday life. And like it's going to have a bunch of demos of it of showing people walking in and being like, "Hey, Gword like uh
you know, um hey, hey, company name here so I don't trigger a bunch of people's phones. Um you know, what's what's on my agenda today? give me my morning briefing and it's going to be like I don't think that's it's going to be a whole thing. You can see I don't think enough complexity. I don't think that adds any complexity. It's all it well it doesn't but that's is that not is that not sort of the AI experience of the last several years of features being pitched and then going like I don't know how much complexity or problems this solves in my life. No, I don't see that whatsoever. I think um well we know them pitching it as an AI centered device they are but I don't think that's that like it's not like a home view level of
complexity it's just about it's some okay it's something that you invoke and it's like cards on your screen like it is on the Nestub today just with more processing available to it I mean even no it's all I would love to see them go a halfway step towards And I know that the Pixel tablet failed. I keep bringing it up because I'm literally look I look at it 10 hours a day at my desk. It's literally just in front of me. I think if they could get this kind of half step where you have certain Android applications that run in on this screen that isn't a fullyfledged tablet. So for instance applications here in the I know that they won't do it but I think that here in the UK we
have uh a cooking application called Mob Kitchen. It's fairly popular. They're big on social media and we use it every day. It's one of our favorite recipe applications in the household. So, that is great, but I don't want to have to use my phone to do that. If I'm in the kitchen and I could have a tablet that just sits in, not tablet, a smart display that sits in the kitchen while we're cooking and I can just go through the application, follow the recipes from there, rather having this weird web page thing that the NestHub does. If you if you've used a Nest Hub, you know what I'm talking about. Sometimes it directs.
You know what the home view does to solve that? You can send recipe links to your home view and it'll convert I think it uses AI maybe it will convert it to step by step in like a large scale step-by-step instructions. Well, that's a solution, isn't it? That Gemini should be able to do that. I mean, with their new model coming out, carbon apparently it's it's Opus 5.5 level and above. So, yeah, he should be able to do that. That would be the dream. I think that it's almost like there are so many opportunities. Maybe Google is has been waiting for this. Maybe Google has been obviously I'm they were kind of caught off guard.
It felt like with Gemini initially being barred and chat GPT comp on the back foot a little bit, but it definitely feels as though if they're going to replace all of these X Google Assistant displays, we need them to have Gemini capabilities in them. Surely this is you guys have cirled back around to what I'm saying. I don't want like I don't they're going to position it to be agentic and like it's going to they're going to charge $400 for it. It's going to run on a 8y old chip that is underpowered. And if you want evidence of that, go look at what they've done with Google TV. The amount of money they charge for the specs in that thing is ridiculous. Um, no, it they're going to try to
supercharge this thing to leap in front of whatever they think Apple is doing here with the home view. and it will want to do everything for you because in the 20 years after the smartphone, god forbid a product just do one thing really well. Like that's where we're at. Like I until Google stops thinking that everything needs to be everything to everybody. Like I don't understand. I completely disagree that I think this addition of these GE in this case Gemini does not bog it down or anything like that. I'm not saying I expect them to launch a product without Gemini. I'm saying that I they're going to build Gemini to be the
the selling point of it. The reason they want you to buy it. It's going to be every ad is somebody talking to Gemini and asking them to go plan a travel itinerary and buy Door Dash. And then Gemini is going to be like, "Did it for you. You're welcome." And they're going to be like, "The new NestHub Max Extreme, it will it does your taxes for you. $400, please. And like it's I just don't like nobody wants this. Like just make a good new smart display that is a photo frame and give you basic info on your life for $100. I don't think like adding those capabilities will make it a more complex photo frame. No, but I'm saying it's going to result in how I treat my NestHub Max right now, which is also
completely underpowered for what they've tried to have it do, where it just becomes a photo frame that I sometimes cast audio to because anything else I try to do with it is too slow and too frustrating to use. Like maybe the first 12 months it works fine, but it's going to like they're going to sell it with weak hardware whenever they do. Same that they did with all of the Nest Hubs, the same that they did with the Pixel tablet. and it will be overpriced. It the core user experience will degrade pretty rapidly after launch and people will expect to just forget about it and move on. I just have no hope in this. Then you still have a photo frame which is what people want. I really $400.
It will go on sale. It won't be $400. It's I can't imagine it would be 400 themselves now. No, it's clear we fundamentally disagree on what this thing should be clearly because I just like I don't know who wants this. I don't think we're disagreeing whatsoever. I think like all those features that you mentioned fit in just fine on a smart display. I don't think I'm looking at the Nestub Max right now. It's sure. Okay. Like Okay. The one thing you said people do expect voice commands. I think we can all agree on that. They want to stop their music. they want to start their timers, but I don't think the leap of those other agentic features of like showing
cards like it's time to leave or whatever. I don't think that adds any penalty any complexity they say to this experience. And I think I don't know, it's probably a Google Home display. I think that name is leaked in code. It's like what? $200, maybe 250. Um, right. They're No, they're gonna they're not going to undercut Apple on this. I don't believe it. You know, I think they kind of can to get Gemini in there. I think if Google are going to do one thing on Gemini right now, they can't afford to do it. They can't afford to search. I feel like it's a weird one though because it's like they could have done this years ago and have not done it. So why would they at the end of the day guys like my point of view is that I
they have not earned the benefit of the doubt on whatever they want to do with the smart display next. And so like when I'm pessimistic about it and I'm skeptical about their vision. I my point is that if they're not willing to put out like a good smart display that can just do the things that smart displays were doing a decade ago and like let people buy it like I don't expect to trust their vision. I don't think anybody should invest in Google's smart display vision because the last time like the last two times they did it like the Nest stuff died out and then the Pixel tablet died out like immediately. So, like I don't know. Like I would like for them to
nail the basics before they try to make this an agentic machine that again they're going to have to throw processing power and RAM at to do some of this stuff without it being a sluggish mess like the current experience. And so it's going to cost $300. Like it's for it's going to be overpriced. Like I just like in this economy when we're talking about 16 $1,600 flagships, I don't know why is anybody buying a $300 smart display? Like I don't think the Home View is going to sell well. Like I think this is a bad product from Apple just on its face. Do we think I mean the reviews are not out for the Home View yet, are they? Are they in the hands of people anyway? When does it actually go on sale in the next couple weeks?
I feel I'm really intrigued to see how this kind of the reaction to the home view because it's almost like I know that um Apple has been trying to work to make Siri more capable I guess. Um and in some respects having something that can just do the basics is fine. And I think that's kind of why I like the Nest Hub because it just does what I need it to do which is show me photos and put my do my timers and set alarms. Um, so forgive me. It's uh it's when we're recording this, it's um uh bonfire night, sky fox night. So there's a lot of fireworks going off in that town. So sadly you will hear some pops and bangs. It's not me shooting. I might be able to remove those. Those
might be for the listener. Yeah. Um, yeah. I just think I think once we get an indication of how people are really talking about the home view in the Apple spheres, I'm I'm intrigued to see like how that then potentially affects what people in the Google side of things expect from their hardware. Um, I don't want much. I think a lot of people just kind of want things to just like kind of what you're getting at will is control the lights. Um, show me a recipe and just really basics just one time things. And I think maybe that user process of like doing multiple steps isn't always necessary in these kind of things. I think you can do your phone for that and maybe Google can offload some of the processing power to your
phone to handle these things. But that might be that might not be a good play though. Really cost effective. Surely I don't know. Who knows? I mean we have what have we had leaks from this? A code name in code. I think we have the models to go off of. Yeah, I think um yeah, it's Google has they have dropped the ball a little bit on the smart home efforts in the last four years at the very least um post NestHub second gen. I'm I know that the home speaker is a pretty good product in terms of like compared to the Nest Mini. I don't think it's too drastically expensive for what it what they're asking in terms of like the audio experience and Gemini being a little bit faster, that kind of thing. But yeah,
they're going to really have to pull out all the stops if the home view does review well. And I think um yeah, we'll just have to wait and see, I guess. I kind of like the design. It's a little bit It is just an iPad with a speaker attached. It's almost like an a mini iMac, isn't it? Um it kind of would be good as a secondary display for that reason. So maybe I'll take a look at one. Maybe I'll go have a look at one in the Apple Store at some point. Um having all that secondary information is kind of interesting, but yeah, probably not going to replace my Pixel tablet anytime soon. Um, yeah. I don't know if there's any other business that you guys want to I think that's I think we should head
over to the uh let's Yeah, let's let's head over to the pro tier and uh let's hear Will's massive rant on home on his problems with his Nest Hub Max. I'm I'm out of rants on that. I'm out of It was my last week. It's your turn to rant. I'll come up with Oh, give me 20 seconds. I'll come up with something. Come join us. Come join us over there. We're yeah it's a little bit more off pieced a little bit more off script and uh yeah we'll have a good time over there and I will speak to you just shortly. Bye.
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