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All right, everyone. Welcome back to Beyond the Podium. Very special edition of Beyond the Podium today with none other than my American and Michigander friend Larry Warbass straight off the Lombardia finish line. Larry, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us, man. I think you just you said you just literally pulled back into Nice after the drive from Lombardi. Yeah. Hey, hey, Brent. Good to be here. Uh yeah, nice to be on the show with you guys. And uh yeah, was uh we spent just two days, well two days like a day after the race uh in Italy and then uh yeah, just came home uh today. So yeah,
nice to be here with you guys and yeah, nice to finish the season also. So I was going to ask that. Is that it for the year then? Yeah. No, no Japan Cup or any craziness. No, no. So yeah, I uh I'm happy to be done for the year, that's for sure. Well, congrats on a big season. Yeah, for anyone who hasn't been following, Larry said a big season. Another Jer Italia in the books. Also part of that monumental American win for Brandon McNelte at the World Championships recently. And really, I think uh gosh, Larry, you're you're the veteran now of uh American Pro Cycling. I think back to 2012, I think that was your
first season with the BMT racing team. We were teammates. You were just I mean, you were literally a kid then. I mean, I remember starting uh even back further, Priority Health Days, racing in Michigan. Uh I remember doing a school visit there where we were speaking to kids about bikes at the school and you were like the age of the school kids. I mean, I think it was my school that we actually were talking at. Uh but yeah, I think I Yeah, we go back a long time. I think I was probably 15 at that time and uh yeah, we went to this school visit. So, yeah, it's kind of crazy to think uh yeah, I'm quite a lot older now. Yeah, that was more than 20 years ago. Uh we did that which is really crazy to think
that is man. Well yeah what an awesome ride you had. I want to talk more about that career reflection. Looking forward to but let's start uh most recently. It's I'm sure it's super fresh on your mind. Jared Lombardia another big uh monumental classics hit out and you've done this monument a bunch of times now. Um and by the looks of it I didn't um watch every kilometer of the race but still extremely competitive. saw you there going to the finish line and it looks just as hard fought as ever. I mean talking about full-on nuclear attacks over the Gasalo. Um tell us a little just about the race, your experience there. Um and what you saw especially um also from the Phenom Paul Seas who's everyone's talking about.
Yeah, so I mean this year was uh really hard you know it's like now we're saying every race is really hard but uh so with Lombardia they switch the route every year. So one year it starts in Bergamo and finishes in KOMO. The next year like it switches the other direction. So um this year we finished in KO and so yeah 2024 we did the same way and it's funny because before the race we were saying like oh yeah like if we start like how they did in 2024 like it's going to be a really hard race. And uh cuz yeah in that year like the break didn't go before the first long climb and then yeah it essentially took the whole climb for the break to go and then it was the exact same thing this year but it the
pace was even higher this time. So uh so yeah it was super hard from the start and then uh yeah I mean pretty much the whole day was really hard. So uh I would say it was even harder than 2024. So uh so yeah it wasn't an easy day but okay it never is. And then uh yeah, it was like the start was super hard, then maybe it calmed down for I don't know, an hour or two, and then we hit a steep climb in the middle where we went Yeah. about as hard as we could, and then uh that was the climb sort of before Galo. Um so that was like maybe a 10-minute climb. Um that I think was new this year, pretty steep. And uh yeah, and then it was just like fight for positioning into Gizalo. So that's where
my job was. um for the team was just to try to make sure the guys were in good uh position going into the bottom. And then yeah, I mean to be honest at the bottom of Gallalo the pace was I mean high but not like absurd. And so then I was like oh you know cool like uh hopefully I can make it over this and then you know uh keep helping the guys. But uh yeah then the second half of the climb well second half of the first part that's hard. uh they just really ramped up the pace and then uh yeah it was a big explosion and yeah a lot of uh our American friends were uh the ones animating the race that was pretty cool I just heard in the radio that it was like Quinn uh Matteo and Brandon in a fourman break you know so insane that was pretty
crazy yeah so u so that's cool you know I think I mean I didn't exactly see but I think they made the race pretty exciting and then yeah it all came back together. And I mean I have to say Sexus rode uh a smart race not to get involved like so early and just stayed in the Pelaton. Um a little more conservative and uh yeah and then just absolutely smashed everyone on the last climb and I think uh on Chileio so like the last hard climb which I know you've probably done many times Brent. Uh I actually think he broke Pogar's record up that climb. So, you know, still uh I mean people say like, "Oh, yeah, you know, yeah, but there's no pogot chart." But yeah, he still obviously went super fast at the
end of a hard day. So, um so yeah, really impressive. Yeah. Incredible. I And I love that stat and comparison. I mean, you're we love like in the commentary booth and just, you know, us now as pundits throwing comments around watching the race. We love the comparisons. We love like talking Seas versus Tade, but you're actually in the Pelaton with them. Um, you've you've basically lived and ridden with the full TD paga era and now Paul SS I mean drawing the comparisons is Paul SS the best 20-year-old professional bike rider we've ever seen like even better than TAD at the time or yeah what's what's possible for this guy?
Yeah, I mean I definitely think he's probably the best 20 yearear-old ever. Um, so yeah, he was the youngest winner ever of Lombardia and the race has existed for like 120 years or something. So that's really crazy because I think, you know, back in the day, like as in early 1900s, it was more common for some of these young guys to do, you know, really good or big things. But um yeah, it's that's really crazy. And I mean, you know, in the end, I think it's hard to compare. I mean, I do believe if Pogra was there, he still probably would have won. But uh I mean, he has a lot of years now on uh on Sexus. So if sex can even just improve minimally each year, uh I mean, yeah, he's going to be
unstoppable in Yeah. a few years. Yeah. What are your thoughts on there? I mean, you I know it's evolved a little bit, but you rode for this team and this organization that is spearheading this development of Paul success. I think it's evolve definitely evolved during your time there in that organization. I think it's continued to change and evolve there. Is that the place for them? are they up for the task? Like, can the French do it? Because I also look at him with my race experience and also as a critic and an analyst now, and I'm like, man, like he does feel the pressure, too. Like amazing poise and patience, like you just said, even for tactically in Lombardi, but reading his quotes and seeing how he responded after
Worlds, too. Just being so hard on himself, so down, seeing even from afar the pressure and the weight of the French public on a French team. what's the what's going to be like the sort of keys or you know prime uh sort of I guess really skills for him to be able to develop to that level and surpass Tade. Yeah, I mean I definitely think he's showed like incredible poise for his age uh just handling all the media stuff, you I mean, especially with the tour to France and everything, uh, just being able to, I don't know, make it through three weeks, uh, without losing his head with probably being the guy with the most press coverage in the entire race. And, uh, you know, like living a lot of the
year in France, I just see the crazy, um, impact it's had on like, you know, the French public and everything because now, you know, it's not just people who follow cycling. Everyone knows who Paul Sexus is and he's really everywhere. So the media pressure is like enormous and yeah he seems to be able to cope with that really well. I think it was a bit sad yeah to see his comments after um the world's you know just saying like I don't know something like he said maybe I don't know I can't remember what he said but that he didn't deserve to be the leader or whatever you know with the ride like he did. And you know, I think that's also um quite French to be really hard on yourself and really self-critical. So um
you know, I just I was disappointed to see uh him say that, but because I think you know, he's done such an incredible job and he's gone so above and beyond this whole year that it's like I mean to me, you know, not performing at one race is like totally acceptable and should be at least expected I would say, you know. So, it was cool to see him, yeah, turn around at Lombardia and uh come away with a big win. And I definitely think uh the way that Decathlon's been evolving uh over the last years, they're definitely capable of supporting him to um yeah, reach the heights that, you know, people think he can reach. you know, I know they're really signing a lot of guys to try to build the team
around him. And I hope that he stays there because I think it would just really be cool to see uh a French rider and a French team challenge for the win, you know, at the Tour to France. Um, and yeah, I know that's, you know, their big goal and, uh, I really hope that they'll be capable of keeping him. And you know, I definitely think in terms of staff and structure and support, you know, the way they've been going, uh, yeah, they're definitely one of the most professional teams in the bunch now. Um, and that's changed, you know, a lot over the last years. And, you know, they would say now that they're an international team operating in France. And, uh, you know, I think that's kind of their goal. But
they definitely I think you know being sponsored by Decathlon and then CMA CGM two enormous French companies I think it's good if they can keep their French roots a bit. Yeah. They'll keep some French identity. I mean you say that now too man as like I nearly adopted French if not like I don't know. I don't know about that, but we exchanged some emails a couple years ago where I um I think I Google translated in a message in French to try to get your attention because I wasn't stop. Yeah. Yeah, that was funny. Yeah. Well, yeah, you've done well to um integrate within the Pelaton, especially the French. Um bringing it back to you, Larry, and
before we leave, Lombardy, like you mentioned positioning your teammates before one of the crucial climbs. I've loved watching you, man, in recent years. Like, you've really, man, like you've come a long way. And now to see you in the limelight. Milan, San Rainbow, Lombardi, the Jirro. If it's a if it's the pointy end of the Pelaton at a crucial moment of the race, like there's usually Larry up there in your style, elbows dropped up there just like grinding away. And you've really seem to, I don't know, like nearly perfected or really have a knack for this combination of art and science and power and timing. tell can you tell us and the listeners and the viewers a little bit about what's gone into that and if
that is how you see yourself or how that you know kind of relates to your cycling professional identity and your role within the team and how that evolution has come for yourself. Yeah, thanks. No, I mean I think uh yeah, usually my role is to be sort of like one of the last helpers and usually like the critical moments of the race and I think yeah I've been able to do that quite well. I think, you know, like I mean, yeah, I don't know. Strangely, I feel like I'm still getting better every year, so that's nice. Um, but I think probably uh while I'm one of the older riders, I would still say I am relatively new school in my approach to cycling. You
know, I think I was kind of like an early adopter for a lot of like things like, you know, fueling with a bunch of carbs, you know. I don't know. Always I was kind of trying to be on the forefront of everything. And I think now it's kind of like uh cycling has caught up with my uh I don't know interest sort of you know in all these kind of things. And so yeah I don't know I guess I'm always trying to focus on everything you know whether that's nutrition whether that's like aerodynamics training things like that. And um I think I've also learned kind of how I function best. Um so I've been able to sort of integrate that into my training. um you know like I have a coach from the team but I
really work pretty closely with him to try to like plan all my training and you know so I would say you know I have yeah a really big say in how I train and you know um yeah I'm pretty in control of everything so that's kind of cool and then yeah I think also being on the team I'm on uh they're pretty on the forefront and cutting edge of a lot of like the science and like aerodynamics and equipment and everything um so that fits me pretty well because yeah I mean in the past you know when I was on agent at the time you know at the beginning they were a bit of an old school team um so it's nice to be on a sort of like a newer school team uh that really thinks the same way I do um and yeah so I think
all of that sort of combined um has helped me I guess perform better than yeah I did in the past and uh I think also probably years in the pelon you gain a bit more respect um from a lot of the riders and then it maybe even becomes easier to uh yeah, ride in good position, things like that. Yeah, they know you belong up there and you're going to yeah, honor and do well with that wheel. I love hearing that, Larry, because thinking back to our days as teammates on BMC, that even rings a bell. Like you were searching, grabbing for the front end, those small gains. And I think what set you apart though is just how you've assembled that and you haven't gotten lost in it. I think we also see riders and young developing riders that
get too fixated on that and then they forget the fundamentals which allow you to do the big power and the big performance just to get in that point in the race. I think when we're watching the races on TV now it is lost on us the physical capacity that it takes to even get to that point which all those little things don't do much. Yeah. If you if you can't even be there. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think I'll probably back in the day I was a bit lost in the 1enters. Uh, you know, I remember TJ once telling me something like, you know, I don't know, you're focused on either the frosting or the cherry on top
when you need to be focusing on the cake or something, you know, like a good one. And uh, and you know, I think that probably was true at the time. And now while yes I'm interested and focused on these details I would say like yeah I'm way more focused on the 90% you know and you know I even had the same conversation with like uh Matteo Jorgensson recently just talking about like yeah I guess dialing everything in and performing and it was like you know I think as long as you do 90% right 90% of the time you have leeway to you know enjoy yourself and you know not always be So, you know, crazy 110%, you know, living like a monk all the time, you know. Um, so I think that's kind of like
my philosophy uh for the last like number of years is like yeah, just try to do most things right most of the time and then uh you know still leave a little bit of room for some enjoyment in your life. And then I think the thing is is then you can always give 100% in the race rather than maybe when you're so focused on the details and doing everything at 110%. You know, you crack at a point and uh yeah, then you know, you just don't have the mental energy to go all in when it uh is required, I guess. Yeah, I love it, man. We're going to clip that sound bite and we're going to blast it off to all the junior cycling teams out there. Sounds good.
Yeah, that's like I don't know. longevity and develop in a nutshell. I love hearing you talk about the mental aspect of the sport as well. I'm obviously biased to that in terms of what I'm doing now. So, yeah, wise sage words. Thanks for sharing all that. Um, away from the mental and just for like the geeks and the nerds that are out there watching and listening, throw some numbers at us of like a monument like Lombardi, like what were the KJs? What's like the 20-minute power to play the game? Like average power?
Okay. I mean, I can just pull up my training peaks, but um so like I think it was about 6,000 kles. Um so let's see. We'll take So I did four. It was 44. So was with the neutral like again this was riding from the bus. It was 6 hours 10 minutes. I think the race was like 5 hours something. Um, so total was 6,3 K. Uh, yeah, my normalized power was 332 watts for that time. Um, and then let's see what the average Yeah, average power was like 272 watts.
Yeah. And then 335 norm for the race. So, so yeah, it was pretty big. Pretty solid day. Um, yeah. But yeah, and yeah, I guess let's see the peaks. So yeah, peak 20 minutes was just like it was 396 watt. So I'm like maybe I was probably 66 and a half 67 kilos. Um peak 10 minute was like 430 watts on this like uh steep climb in the middle of the race. Yeah. And yeah, then I mean this yeah, shorter peaks weren't anything crazy, but it's more just like the race is so hard the whole day that then you have to be able to do this kind of power off the back end um of Yeah. I
don't know. Such a big day, you know. So I, you know, I would say like the peak watts aren't necessarily always so crazy, but it's really like uh being able to do those same watts after, you know, five, five and a half, six hours or whatever, right? So yeah, not just looking at the peak 10 or 20, but how many other times during the race did you maybe do a couple percent less again of that 10 and 20 just over and over? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Mental man, nice work with Gez. Yeah, you've you've earned uh some RNR today and yeah, well, we'll we won't go too hard on you the rest of the pod here as I know you're tired, but no, that's okay.
I want to go back to um I want to go back to Worlds. I mean, I was trading with some messages with you even after the race and you were you were also just like this is insane, man. This is like I think we were all a little bit like what is happening? Is this like some weird dreamscape? because I think we've all had the dream of Americans riding like that at World Championships, but to see it happening even from afar, having been there before, I'm mind-b blown. But you had a front row seat to it. So, I mean, there's so much I'd love to get out of you and would have loved to have been a fly on the wall. So, I guess going back to the beginning, kind
of like team selection, this is a this is as stacked of an era as ever for the Americans and there were really good riders that were even left off the team, right? Um yeah, even the dynamic with Neielson getting selected and then Ryland um Neielson being sick, Riley coming in, um AJ August wasn't there, um Magnus wasn't there. So talk to us, you know, as a veteran now who's played this game, um gone through the selection process. Talk to us about just getting in the team and were you confident in being there or was it really were you waiting also to hear the selection to hear if you'd even be in? Yeah, I mean I wanted to go, but uh yeah, of course like when you see uh I mean just how well all the Americans have been going
this year, it's like you know I knew it would definitely be uh a challenge, you know, just to even make the team or whatever. Um and so yeah, I knew obviously like if it was based purely off results then like I wasn't going to go, you know. Um so luckily, you know, cycling not everyone can be a leader, you know. So, uh, so I mean that's also, you know, I'm also aware like that's, you know, I got to go because like I think, you know, I've yeah, sort of established a reputation as like a pretty solid and reliable helper. And um, so yeah, and I guess now, as you said at the beginning, I guess now I'm the most experienced American uh, in the bunch by like, yeah, I don't know, like
a long time actually, which is kind of crazy. Uh like when we were at Worlds, we were talking and Brandon was like the next oldest guy after me and you know he's 28. So um yeah and I'm 36 for yeah those who don't know. So yeah it's like uh pretty crazy to think um I guess now how long I've been doing this for. So, so you know I think yeah I got sort of selected as you know to be sort of like a road captain and sort of keep everyone yeah I don't know like uh I don't know in line or whatever you know like uh yeah sort of like negotiate the yeah working between all the leaders and everything and yeah keep everyone sort of like yeah working in the right direction and you know I think the thing is like
uh you know I'm still friends with all the guys uh you know I mean we're all on different teams pretty much And yeah, but I think just have been in the Pelaton for a long time or whatever and then you know doing a lot of races with all these guys. It's like I know everyone pretty well. And so then you know being friends with everyone you can still sort of like it's not like I feel like a particularly alliance more to one guy than the other whatever. And I think I can stay pretty neutral. So I think that's kind of yeah the reason I was selected and able to go was just like um you know we have some really great riders but you know also you know everyone has their own ego and I think like maybe I can help negotiate
that better than some other younger guys you know. Um, so you know, like obviously, yeah, I mean AJ also deserved to go, Magnus deserved to go, you know, uh, there's, yeah, Ricatello deserved to go, you know, I mean there's so many guys who weren't there who also very much deserve to go. Um, so yeah, you know, I think what they tried to do was like they're like, okay, you know, they already I mean, three leaders is a lot of leaders on a team of eight, you know. So, uh, you know, they're like, "Okay, we already have three leaders, so let's try to build, you know, the most well-rounded team around those guys." Um, so I think that was, yeah, sort of where I fit in and I was really grateful to get that
chance and, yeah, to be there. So, um, so yeah, it was pretty crazy because I think, you know, I knew that we had like a really good shot at getting a good result and, you know, I knew I at the beginning of the year I was like, "Wow, we could really get someone on the podium, you know, and then once uh Tade was out of the race, you know, that also turns into like, well, you never know, like maybe that could be the win." Like that's like a moonshot or whatever, but like maybe it's possible. So, um, so that was pretty exciting. So yeah, I just knew, you know, already I knew already, you know, it's nice because I've gone to Worlds the last couple years and I knew I really wanted to go this year just because I really
believed we had like the best shot at a medal in a really long time. Especially on that course, you know, if you look at like Montreal from last year, they went, you know, it was like Brandon won. Uh Quinn was third and Neielson was fourth. So, you know, it was like we had three guys in the top four. It's like you knew obviously we had a really good shot on that course. So, and then yeah, somehow in the end, uh, yeah, Brandon was able to win the race and it was super cool. Yeah. How much of it I mean, how was there a North American factor there in terms of like bringing the Euros to our continent? I mean, I was kind of joking just with like, you know, my own experience like, ah, this is what happens when the uh, you know, the
Italians and the Frenchies don't get to, you know, eat their mom's home-cooked meal the night before Worlds. But is that a thing at all anymore or is the Pelaton just so internationalized and diverse that it doesn't matter? I mean, I think the Pelaton's pretty international now. And I think like I think that's probably one thing like this new generation of young Americans has done really well has been able to thrive over here. uh also you know um so I think like you know yeah our generation my generation I think like we still like found it really challenging coming over here at the beginning and I think now because the sports become so demanding you've just been like pretty much forced to
make it work over here like you know make most of life over here okay now Quinn and Brandon are probably the two guys that spend the most time in the US and they're both performing Excellently. So, um, so yeah, I guess I think that's part of it. Um, and then I mean for sure it was cool. Like honestly it felt like you were in the US. Like there were so many Americans on the side of the road. Like honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there were as many Americans as there were Canadians there, you know? So it felt like uh we were the home team. Um, which was pretty cool. But uh but yeah, I think it's just over time. Yeah, it's kind of like evolved and now I definitely still think for like an American it takes a few more years to
like get settled or you know for an Australian, someone coming from like overseas. U but I think now like everyone is Yeah. getting better at like establishing more of a solid base over here than you know we were in the past probably. Yeah. Right. We're Yeah. We're always running from Europe where you Yeah. Now everyone's settling in. Yeah. Um, going back to the prep for Worlds, like how were you guys in touch before the race? I was in touch with some non- elite men's racers that were in Montreal and one of them was like, "Where are the elite men? They're not even here yet." Like, where like are they coming?
I mean, everyone rocked up pretty late. So, I think I was the only guy who came from Europe. Oh, no. I think Riley came from Europe, but he came maybe a day or two earlier than me or something. and he didn't come to Montreal until like Yeah. when everyone else came. So I came on the Wednesday. Uh and uh the other guys came Thursday and maybe even Friday. Uh so but the thing Yeah. I mean I think the thing is like you know we spend so much of the year at like the races and stuff that uh the longer we can spend not at a race is like kind of the better you know. And I think especially when the guys were home in the US, it's like, you know, you want to maximize home time because you don't get it that
much over the course of the year. Um, so for me since I did the VA before, I was like I didn't really have the time to like go to Michigan and then like come to Montreal. So I was like, okay, I'm just going to come home to Nice so I can just actually relax and chill out and rest because I really needed that. Um, I was like really dead. Uh, and then I was like, "Okay, get to Montreal early enough that I know like I won't be like totally impacted by the jet lag." So, I came on the Wednesday. Um, and then a few guys came on Thursday and a few guys came on Friday um for a Sunday race. So, so yeah, but we were still in contact, you know, like um like Matteo started a WhatsApp group um between all of us, but
you know, I mean, in the end, we'd all like talked a bit, you know, like some of the guys have a nice uh and then the other guys just like, you know, we'd still message every now and then. Um, but yeah, I guess he started like a WhatsApp group maybe the week of the race and then just like threw out some ideas on what he thought we should do sort of like strategy-wise and then uh yeah, we kind of went from there and that I mean that plan was quite um quite aggressive and bold too. It was like, yeah, sending guys early, always being there, and then even like riding really like even um it's like a it looked almost like offensive defensive because it was like get in the moves,
but then know that your guys behind are always going to back it up. Um which obviously worked, but was that Yeah, tell us more about that plan. And I know you've done other interviews and you've went over it a bunch, but for any guys haven't listened, it's it's super interesting and it's just yeah, so monumental that it worked out with such a team display. It was not just one guy being on a good day. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think the thing was like uh the one thing, you know, we knew was that like while we maybe didn't have like the one individual like strongest guy like, you know, a Remco or a Vanderpole or something like that, we probably had the
strongest like team especially in terms of like multiple leaders, you know, and uh we knew that like essentially if we got into the final, we'd probably have the most numbers out of any team. And so we needed to take advantage of that. And then you know I think the one thing Mattea wrote on his you know like document that he sent us was that essentially like uh you know we need to go for like a team victory and not like an individual and that like uh you know essentially whoever everyone the other guys need to sell out for whoever's like the best on the day you know and uh yeah I think it just essentially the way the race played out also worked out yeah perfectly you know I think when Quinn you know saw
Vanderpole going you know he thought like this is the right move, you know, and uh you know I mean I that worked out perfectly because you know I mean he even in the final he almost beat Vanderpole on the line. So, who's to say that like he wouldn't have actually challenged him in the sprint at the end if they went to the line, you know? So, I think that was also a good move uh for him because I think when it comes down to like who has any gas left in the tank, he's probably the strongest guy in the bunch. Uh and then so yeah, him following that move was like uh perfect because if that move went to the line, you know, I would say the worst he would have gotten was second. And then uh you know then behind
it was like I think the other thing that Matteo and Brandon were really able to take advantage of was that like both Del Toro and Sexus really put had they took all the weight on their shoulders and they pretty much pulled like the whole time. So they said pretty much they just got to sit on for like almost 60k while Quinn was in the move. So then it really worked out perfectly because they were able to really save until like once that move came back then Brandon went and that was that. So yeah, it was pretty cool. And then yeah, I mean once Brandon was away then obviously like Matteo followed all these moves and so yeah, it was really uh it was kind of perfect because we were always on the front foot rather than always on the
back foot. And uh yeah, it's not always easy. Obviously, you know, the guys had to have the legs to be able to do that, but uh, you know, it was still super impressive and it's really cool to be able to race like that and always be on the front foot rather than always be chasing. So, good. Yeah, that's the dream. I love that you mentioned Del Toro. I have to ask you about the Del Toro dynamic because to me, I don't know. I sort of just was like, whatever. Um, but a lot of the viewers, listeners to the show are in the comments talking about the UAE, Del Toro, McNelte, Allegian, Allegiance Alliance. But I love hearing you say from within the race even further out like no, Isak Del Toro and
Seas for the sort of five-star favorite card that they had, especially within their national teams, they it was the onus was on them and they had to invest earlier and they had to use themselves. So, is there anything to this um late What are your thoughts on anything to this latest stage dynamic of Del Toro contributing to the Brandon win? Yeah. I mean, to be honest, I think, you know, I don't know if I can say but I think Thank you. All right. No, say but like uh yeah. I mean, you know, in the end, like, you know, I think people like to make talking points, and I really don't think there's anything there. I think Del Toro was just like dead, you I mean, I think he went so deep early on and he, you know, so initially like uh when
there was like a move that went, you know, like the French team went that essentially when um Brandon went. So, first there was like a move like on the climb the lap before that was initiated by the French, but then that move like sort of disintegrated and then that was when Brandon ended up the road with uh Vanderpole, whatever. Then that next lap uh was when Del Toro he just actually just essentially rode bottom to top like full you know. So that was actually where I got dropped. Uh and like so you know just already you know this is I don't know maybe like 80 70k to go you know he's already investing so much you know and so I think like just every lap then you know he's doing the lion share
of the work and then I think by the time he just really didn't have the legs to pull more than he was pulling you know at the end you know I don't think it was like he was just like oh I'm going to let Brandon win because he's my teammate you know I think Del Toro was trying very hard to win himself and it didn't work out, you know, and then uh you know I think you know then there was like people are like oh right before Brandon attacked it was like uh Del Toro and him like talked but it's like I mean you know how it is like if you're like full gas in a race and then you're like at the back of the group and you see your teammate you'd be like oh my god this was so hard you know you would probably just make like this comment
like just offhand you know not like doesn't necessarily mean you're talking strategy like I'm going to attack let me go or something you know I think it was more just like, oh my god, you know, like this is ridiculous. They look at each other like, what in the world are we doing again? Like, this is absolutely alien. Like, what? This is not sustainable. Yeah. I love it. So, I think that was just that, not anything more, but Okay. Nice. I like it. I like it, man. Oh, man. What? Yeah. What an intense nutshell. Um, all right. more on world championships like before even the elite men's race Ashlin Barry bringing home the world title in the E23 race did um you tell us about that just like being
being there for that like the vibe in the race Ash and like also commentary on Ashlin I don't think you probably raced with him a little bit maybe but they've I know they brought him up some world tour races some and then he's back down at lower level races so I mean two world champions from the men's divisions Um, super promising future for Ashlin already being a U23 world champ. Yeah, for sure. I mean, no, that was crazy. Uh, I mean, I definitely didn't expect I don't think he expected that either, but uh, yeah, I only raced with him once at like nationals and uh, I have to say he really impressed me at nationals
um, because he rode like really smart. And I mean the way that I saw him riding I was like 100% his parents must have really coached him on like how to race you know because like he would not pick a pull. He would, you know, just like always be kind of like sitting on whatever, you know, like as in he, you know, he was always in the right moves, but he was always doing the least work out of anyone, you know, and usually when you see young guys, they're like so excited to be there, they just like overdo it and then they, you know, like they work so hard until they get dropped, you know, and he was really doing the opposite, which is annoying to race against because like, you know, the guy is really uh strong, too.
Yeah. he's strong. But then also you're like, "Oh, you know, like yeah, he's really milking it, you know, and then but you know, racing against someone who's doing that, that's like, you know, complicated because then, you know, obviously you have to do more work or whatever, you know." So, so then I was like, "Oh, this kid knows how to race a bike, you know." Um, and yeah, he was super strong, you know. I think he was fourth uh at uh in the pro nationals, and that was the day after the under 23 race, which he won. So again, you know, uh that's being able to back that up like a day later is really impressive. And then so that was the only time, you know, I had raced against him, but I was like, "Oh, this guy is a
good racer." And then I actually uh sat in on the under 23 teams meeting the day before uh because like Mike Creed, the director, asked if you know, we could give some tips to the guys. And you know, so having done Montreal a few times before, I was like, "Oh, you know, at least I could give some tips on like the course and stuff like that and you know, how it is in a race and whatever." So, uh, you know, I sat through their meeting and it was just kind of funny because like that was not the plan at all to go so early, you know, like their plan like I mean his the plan for him was like to essentially save, don't do anything, only follow until like the last couple laps. and he just did the opposite, you know. So, but I was like,
"Oh, that's interesting." And so, I asked him, you know, after the race, I was like, "But like was this like always your plan?" Like, you know, essentially like did you just sit in the meeting and then just be like, "Well, I have my own plan." And then like, you know, like just did that or like did you like change your mind in the race? You know, he's like, "Well, in the end we actually ended up racing way harder at the start than I expected." And he's like, and then I thought like, well, you know, there's no way I'll follow the best climbers if they go full on the climb. So maybe if I can get ahead so that when they do go full like I'll be ahead and they can come up to me and then, you know, maybe I have a chance.
and you know, he didn't expect that he'd never get caught, you know, and so that to me was like, wow, that's actually pretty crazy, but also like quite mature to think like, okay, you know, how can I have the best chance of winning this race, you know, and not like how can I get the best result, you know, like maybe like a top 10 or something, you know, which, you know, he probably could have gotten a top 10 if he followed, but like he probably couldn't have won, you know, uh, just with one full gas climb or something. So, right, um, that made me think like, damn, like maybe we should really think about this in the way we race, you know, is like, yeah, for sure we can't go leg to leg with a Remco or a Del Tour or a Sexus on a
oneoff climb or whatever, one big hit, right? Yeah. Maybe if we really race to win and we take like a big risk, like maybe, you know, we can actually Yeah. win or somehow at least get in front of the race and then so that like luckily somehow uh is what happened in the end and so that was pretty cool. I love it. I love Yeah. I love the elites pulling tricks from the U23s and vice versa. Exactly. And I love that you're there to pass it down and provide them that and then Ashlin goes and returns it back to you. Gosh. Yeah. That's I think um there's undoubtedly that uh he has the genetics, he has the monster engine, but like you look at his parents, Michael and Dee especially, not taking anything
away from Michael, but she was also so crafty and she was a winner. She knew how to win. She's won on that course. Um so yeah, just yeah, what a killer combination of tactics, physical capability, and I don't know. You think are you going to be around when he gets up to the elite still? you gonna still be uh still be racing? I mean, he'll probably be in the elites pretty soon, so maybe we'll see. Uh but yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Yeah. Well, on that note, Larry, I mean, geez, I think you're back with Tudor next year, 2027. Back for another season, I think. So, congrats on staying alive. Uh thanks this far and another season. What's
What's in store for you uh for the, you know, next year, years to come? I know you're American fans. they'd love to see in the tour to France. We'd love to see you in the tour. Have another uh Michigan homeboy to shout out, you know, during the tour coverage. So, what are you thinking um about next year, even though you're only a couple hours out of 2026 season? I know. Yeah. Uh I mean, yeah, obviously that would be like a big goal for me is to go to the tour. So, we'll see. Uh yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is our team is signing more and more stars, so for sure it'll get harder every year,
but you know, I still think there's like a there's a chance. I think there's a decent chance. Uh, and you know, I told the team and they're aware and you know, we'll see. We'll see what happens. Um, but for sure that's like my biggest goal. Uh, just because yeah, I've still not done the tour to France, which is kind of crazy um, for how long I've been in the belt. But, uh, uh, but yeah, we'll see. You know, I mean that's probably for me, you know, uh, just being on the start line would probably be still, yeah, one of my biggest goals uh, in my career that's yeah, left. And then um I don't really know my schedule yet, you know, like uh we won't probably know that till December. Um but
to be honest, now I've done almost every race other than the tour. So I think yeah, I don't know. Like u I'd still would like to yeah go for a win here or there out of some breakaways um if I can and then yeah, just keep yeah helping my teammates. Uh I enjoy the role that I have and uh yeah, it's a nice team. So um if I can just yeah, keep doing what I'm doing and just keep being consistent and progressing slightly uh yeah, every year, I think for me that's that's good and it's enjoyable. Um so yeah, if I can just kind of keep having fun and then uh yeah, just how do you keep the hunger alive to like still win? I mean, a lot of I think when I was your age and I was still racing or about done, I was like, "Oh, I'm like I'm psyched to like throw it out there for
my teammates, but like man, I'm too tired to even like try to win myself. I'm just I'm tired." But, uh, no, I think it's just like that's also kind of why we're here also, you know. It's like I'm not, you know, here for like a paycheck or anything really, you know. Um, and I still have that desire, you know. Unfortunately, it's been a very long time since I won a race, but uh you know, I don't know. I think I've seen in the last couple years that like I'm not that far off on my day. Um you're in the right move and Yeah.
Yeah. So, um and you know, the problem is now I don't really do very many smaller races, so then makes it even more challenging. when you know you're in most of like the biggest races uh you know the level is just so ridiculously high that uh yeah it's that much harder and you have to sort of be that much savvier and you know more tactically astute to yeah pull it off. Um so I think the thing is I see I'm really not that far off. Um so that's why I still have that like hunger and desire and whatever and just to also yeah I guess prove to myself a bit that like you know I can still do that. Um, and then yeah, I think that's kind of where it comes from is just to yeah, I guess yeah, prove to myself a bit like, okay, you know, I've still got
this. Uh, yeah. So, so yeah, we'll see. Uh, but yeah, then also I think with our team, we're pretty dialed with a lot of like the equipment. So, you know, this year I started to perform pretty well in the TTS again. So, yeah, I'd like to maybe focus on that a little bit as well. Um, just it'd be really nice to be national TT champ. I was gonna say, man, you're I thought it was gonna happen when I was in Charleston watching you. You looked so good and yeah, not very far off. Yeah. So, we'll see. I'd like to invest a little more uh in that next year and then see what happens. Yep. All right. Are you And I mean, you love it in France. Are you forever in France? You gonna move back to the US when you retire or what?
I mean, I'd like it here, but I also like the US, you know. So, we'll see. I think like, you know, what would be really nice would be to one day be able to split time between the two a bit. And then, you know, I think uh whenever I stop racing, I'd like to work, you know, on the other side. Um, you know, in a team or something. Um, whether that's like as a coach or, you know, eventually in management or something like that, you know, um or performance side of things. So, uh, yeah, I think for the time being, I'll still spend quite a lot of time over here. Yeah. I think any team would be super lucky to have you in that capacity. This is a good pitch for all the managers and team orgs out there
already. What um, you know, looking at all of our peers that have moved on, like I think they're all little like, you know, potential templates that we can like plug and play and pull from. Is there anyone out there like American peer or even other like expat peer that you've seen wrap up their career do the couple years in transition and you think like wow that was nicely done like that's that's kind of my model to go after. Um, I think everyone's kind of done their own thing, you know, which is cool, but I haven't I don't know if there's anyone who's done sort of like what I feel like I'm like, okay, that is something like I definitely want to do, you know, like you know, I think like
you know what you've done super cool and I find that like super interesting, you know, the sports psych everything, you know, mental coaching. Um, and I really think that's something necessary in terms of like having someone who totally understands the sport and everything like that, but like I don't know. I can't see myself doing that, you know? Like I don't know. I don't know like uh or if I see other guys going into something totally different, you know? I'm like I don't know if that's something that I would want to do. the thing that I know I don't want to do is like sit behind a desk uh you know uh and if I can have the liberty to still um I mean not necessarily be my you know
like the nice thing about being a cyclist is like you're almost like your own boss you know even though I mean you obviously have a boss uh and you have to go where they tell you but like uh having a lot of control over your time and everything like that um yeah I think you know for me in what I could see myself really imagining is becoming like a coach. Um, but I'd be also open to some other things and roles. Um, so yeah. So we'll see. But I think yeah, I guess helping other guys um in ways that I would have liked to be helped, you know, and I think that's probably also what you're doing um but maybe just in a different sort of role. yeah, uh I think that would be pretty cool.
Um, but yeah, I haven't really totally, you know, like defined exactly what I want to do. I don't want to pull you into that because you think about it. I've been thinking about it, but yeah. Well, yeah. That's awesome, Larry. We're your American fans are uh stoked you're still at it. We know you got more race days, more kilometers. Hopefully a national TT title. Hopefully not as many race days as I've been doing, but you know, like you did almost 80 race days this year, didn't you?
Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot, man. Yeah. go put petition that to the team. Groundwork for uh 2027, right? Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. All right, Larry. Well, thanks so much for the time, man. Really appreciate you joining us. We won't take any more of your uh off season. Congrats on a awesome year, another successful one. Stoked to hear you're heading into the off seasonason healthy and uh yeah, just grateful for the time. So, thanks for joining us and uh we'll look forward to talking to you again and hopefully be in touch before the season start whenever that is.
Sounds great. Thanks. Thanks everyone and yeah, have a good one. For all your cycling content year round, subscribe to NBC Sports YouTube page. We got it all.
