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Welcome to Pixelated episode 104. I'm your host, Will Saddleberg. This week, we're peeking into that walled garden just to see what's up with the Apple ecosystem following WWDC and the unveiling of Siri AI. What does Apple seem to be doing now that it has the backing of Google's LLM? We'll discuss, plus thoughts on Liquid Glass versus Material 3 Expressive, where exactly Apple feels truly behind the times, and a look at Android's latest celebrity partner, Paris Hilton. It's all coming up right after a word from our sponsor, Bit Warden. This week's episode of Pixelated is sponsored by Bit Warden, the trusted open- source solution for pass key, password, and secrets management. Bit Warden helps you create strong and
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Thank you to Bit Warden for sponsoring Pixelated. So, I'm begrudgingly going to bring this up because I think it is definitely pertinent to the things that we talk about, especially with regards to AI and stuff. Uh, there was a company that is situated very close to Google. Uh, they had a announcement, a developer focused shindig something on Monday. Um, I know nothing about it. I probably if it wasn't for you guys giving me the information, I probably wouldn't care about it because I know you'll give me all the information I need. You're talking about the Nintendo Direct, right? You're talking about the Nintendo.
I wish I we could talk about that all week. Um, let's talk a little bit about WWDC, uh, WW, and guys, I genuinely know nothing about this. I have the briefest knowledge of what is going on. I know that it's developer focused thing for Apple fans, but just give me the lowdown. Let's let's get into it. Let's see how this affects what we talk about here on the I guess Google focused side of the fence. So I guess AI Siri AI is the big uh thing out of it. Um this is their f their mere culpa for 2024. they finally got the act the underlying models down thanks to a partnership with Gemini and Google uh which did get an onstage mention as powering uh what Apple calls their foundation models. So the under the hood they now have a solid
foundation to do all the AI stuff they wanted to uh as announced in 24 and it's now coming. It is Siri AI is a new name. They just added AI at the end which could either be the artificial intelligence or Apple intelligence. Um, and yeah, it's that the very high level is they're bringing everything. They're now on par with I don't know 24 25 tech era stuff in that they have a chatbot. Um, I guess one interesting thing is in 24 they were very hesitant to actually make a chat app to make a wrist where you could see a past conversations with uh Siri, but now they've all they've gone and embraced that. And it's interesting because I found it I don't hate the idea of you just having an interaction like with
like Google Assistant of old Siri of old where you just have one interaction and it goes away. But I guess the thing that's been proven out in the past few years is that people do like the chat format. Well, as in like consistency. Do you think Apple did this for like a privacy side of things? they wanted to do it for a privacy element or is it just something that they kind of were so far behind they didn't really know I was going to use a rude British sentiment there. Um I'd say they're butt from their elbow. Um is it kind of a little bit like that or do you think that they've just realized and I know that a lot of Apple stands will be like oh they wait and
they wait they allow the technology to mature and then they make the best version of it. I feel like this feels like mega catch up if you're saying it's like two years of the two years behind potentially from what they initially had. I do want to get back to some of the sentiment that Apple people have, but I think I just think they didn't get the chatbot thing at the beginning. Uh they that they were just so hesitant to adopt what everybody else is doing. But anyways, back to a po a interesting point that you raised there is a sentiment out there among stands as you say that Apple was that there's smart ones for not spending billions on infrastructure roll out that they waited until the technology matured etc and
I think that is such a revisionist history in an ideal world where Apple had the technology right they would have launched all of this in 24 and they would have been on par with the contemporaries like they don't have this because they were genuinely behind because the underlying technology was so bad in 24 and 25 that they couldn't do the things that they wanted to. So I Apple is not different. They're not immune to the AI thing. They're not immune to where the puck is skate is going. So that just annoys the hell out of me when people say that. Well, it's an argument that I think could make some amount of sense if not for the fact that like they did try to launch something two years ago. Like if
you wanted if 2024 didn't exist, right? And Apple Intelligence didn't launch and it didn't lead to a lawsuit, right? Like a class action did you buy an iPhone 16 because of Apple intelligence lawsuit. Um then I think you can kind of make that argument a little bit or at the very least the argument is stronger. But um and then the other thing, you know, on the other side, you want to talk about like their partnership with Google and everything. It's almost too early to try to make some sort of big proclamation that they were smart to not build their own infrastructure because that only makes sense if we're past bubble bursting. But there is like there has been no bubble burst. You know, I'm
not even commenting on whether there is a bubble. I'm just saying that like that's that thought only makes sense after the fact. See what happens. Yeah. Yeah. Pick up in the ashes and try and find the best components, right? It definitely feels weird. It feels weird though, doesn't it? Because you've said there, will that like Yeah. They had this product that they wanted to scale at a rate which I mean, if they'd have had two years of being able to build out an Apple intelligence or whatever the hell they called it at the scale that they wanted, they probably
would be on par with the likes of Gemini Chat GPT Claude. Well, maybe not. Probably not actually. But I wonder I do wonder how much of the we are the privacy company, it's basically made a rod for their own back a little bit. It's like they couldn't build out AI infrastructure without the inherent risks and potential legal pitfalls of AI training over time without losing that privacy tag. Yeah. the state of generative AI in 2026 is like as like anti-Apple as you can probably get because it is sort of based on like it is sort of based on being like early experimental tech in a way that has to always have like a disclaimer available
and is frequently you know there are obviously ondevice models but if you are doing anything remotely beyond and I and I to be honest with you I think most people don't care about ondevice models in general that the advantage to them is speed and well sort of speed but mostly security. And if the last 20 years of technology has proven anything, it's that most people don't care about their privacy uh enough for that to matter if you're telling them that the the you know internet connected not on your device model is significantly faster and more powerful. Um so yeah I mean this really does you know I think Abnner you said Maya I do think this sort of feels like them being like this is what we wanted to do two
years ago and we had to partner with teams you know with external teams like Google to do it because we just our leadership like failed. I mean you can look into the stories of like you know the AI dueling AI teams they basically had within Apple that was just like completely falling apart. And it is funny to watch them kind of go back and just be like, we're we're just going to do a we're just going to kind of do what everybody else already did just a couple years late. I mean, and look, the app looks good. I think it's they had that they had to do this if only just for the history aspect of it, right? Because like that feels like such an important piece of all of these chat bots is that
you can jump back into a pre-existing conversation and you won't be a you wouldn't be able to do that with Siri. They didn't have an app. So, it makes sense. um as does you know uh I guess they already added the ability to type to Siri. It's just more so a free flowing conversation now. So um yeah. Do you think this is going to be enough to get people off the web- based applications that we might use? Like I get the impression that the biggest benefit is obviously the integration with your phone in ways that I guess Apple will do better than most.
Let's be completely honest. I know Google's tried that. Do you think it's going to get people off using Gemini? because I have on my as I'm looking over at the side of my desk and you can't see me do that is my dead battery iPhone 17 has the action button assigned to um Gemini Live and I would be more inclined to use Gemini there than I probably would be on my Pixel. So I don't know, go figure with that one. I feel like it's like it makes up for these external applications like Gemini, like Chat GPT make up for the fact that Apple Intelligence was so far behind that Yeah, that is a good question. It's the power of defaults is hard to ignore in okay the data in terms of Google one of um entropic of uh open AI
people are paying for these by externally that's what it does look like people are using these so I'd wager that I don't know for more casual user maybe that Siri is will be the thing. Um but yeah, it's okay. So, not a lot of people have had a chance to use it, but um I'm still on the wait list. Um most people I would say, but from initially it just looks like it's on par with whatever Gemini's rate is 3 point. Well, actually, we don't know which one they're based on. it works on par. So assuming that and that it improves at the same rate as when Google's underlying models get updated, it should be tech on the technical side, it should be absolutely competent. So I think it goes back to the power of
defaults because while I think most people in these days will download a something like Gemini or Claude uh chat GPT etc. the Siri stuff of like basic phone commands. I think that's still intrinsically locked to Siri, right? Well, and the other question becomes and it's one the three of us really can't answer, but like how to like how do iPhone owners adapt to this like people who live their lives in the Apple ecosystem and especially in the US where it's it's even more dominant and it's more you know the lock in of iMessage even in an RCS era still exists. Um, how do people who, you know, to your point, Abner, downloaded the chat GPT app in 2024, downloaded the Gemini app in 20, you know, later 2024 or whatever.
Um, how do they just stop using those tools and go back to this one because it's built into the operating system? They can access it by swip swiping. Damian, you haven't seen this because you haven't followed this. you know, you know, on an iPhone, um, the split between Oh, now I have to pick up my iPhone to be able to know this. Um, so if you swipe down from the right and this is on many Android devices now, but if you swipe down from the right side of the dynamic island, you get the quick settings menu, control center, and then if you swipe down from the other side, you get your notifications. Um, there they've added a middle swipe under the dynamic island that opens Siri. So, we're going to smear the that people are
going to smear the dynamic island even more than they were going. Yes, it's three swipes now. It's three different swipes. And to be fair, I don't you know, anytime I've been on an iPhone, I don't think I've ever really swiped accidentally from the middle. But it is just so funny to add a third then be like, "Good luck teaching your parents this." Um, awesome. But, so, so I think that's the other value in Apple finally getting Yes. finally getting its together. Uh so we can see how the implementations of how Apple versus Android the Android landscape implements AI. So starting with how you activate it. Um yeah, they're really leaning into the dynamic island as the way to launch Siri, which again I think the dynamic I think we've
talked about this recently. Dynamic Island still beats the Android implementations. We'll see what Android Halo uh brings to the table come fall. But yeah, that's that's how you launch it. It will combine Spotlight and all that. So, which unifying search uh which Pixel doesn't have right now again, whatever. Um but yeah, so long button press um hot word, etc. That's all there. You also have the app to go full screen conversations. It's from that point of view it is it's not drastically different from the Gemini overlay or anything like that. I wonder how much this is going to I mean you kind of have briefly alluded to it but not said it but I'm going to slam dunk it in for you Abnner because you've
set me up. You've your nice little layup there for me. It definitely feels like now Apple has played their cards in terms of how they integrate AI the way that they're going to integrate AI. I wonder a how much they've learned from the current implementations that obviously Google's been leading the charge with this especially on smartphones and how now Google feedback feed feeds that back I was struggling to say that feeds that back into their design processes because we've just seen that Gemini intelligence um demo or like preview at Android show and to me that felt like one of the most Applelike implementations of an assistant Google's really done. So I wonder now how much there's going to be some sort of crossover here because obviously
we've we know that Gemini models are going to power this Siri AI. Like there's definitely going to be more conversation between Google who work on the AI side of things and now this Apple team who are working on their AI side of things. I wonder how much there is potentially going to be like almost like ideas that merge or converge into one position. Like I'm I'm intrigued to see how this plays out in the next couple years. Yeah, that'll absolutely be the case. I want to shout out the one thing because Okay, so like you Abner, I've not I don't have access to these uh I don't have access to the beta yet or anything, but so I haven't used Siri yet, but so you know, everything I've
gained from it has been hands-ons from people who do have it. And uh the one thing that has made me excited slash jealous slashhoping that Google takes this back to Gemini and it is a thing that I have been asking for se several literally several years now. Uh and I'm going to read the headline of a Verge article by Jay Peters. Apple's new Siri AI knows when to shut up. It appears that Siri AI uh whatever Apple did to um modify or customize the underlying Gemini model on average based on these early tests that uh Jay published in this article. Uh series responses are like significantly shorter than Gemini or well chat GPT and especially Gemini to be honest with you. You know, I it's
literally uh one of the questions he asked was, "Do you love me?" Gemini wrote an entire paragraph. I truly if I read it, it would take 30 seconds, so I'm not going to do it. Siri said, "I think you're pretty great." Like, that is one thing I really like about um where Apple seems to be taking Siri. Now, the rest of it, the rest of the experience might be awful. It might get half of the things. I don't like I don't know. But on paper, this is what I've wanted from Gemini is for it to finally learn. And by and I have tried all the customization stuff. if I even asked it. I was like, "Did I set you to uh to be short and concise and it said yes, you did on a previous date." And uh and so yeah, so this is one thing I
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ecosystem for to adopt to so app actions basically. Um right CV AI it appears that it can control more apps can do more ondevice commands using the apps installed on your phone and historically Apple has a developer read and adoption on that. So we'll we'll we'll see how that plays out in the fall in terms of developers updating their apps to support CVI. But that on paper is something I'm already jealous of. I do. Yeah. I wonder why that wasn't such a bigger component at IO. Like I'm surprised there wasn't a big like almost because if you think you're going to do it, you do it at your own developer conference. Obviously Apple is quite good in that they lay out
their entire road map in one go and whether or not they reach the destination is here nor there. They do have a complete and utter road map ready to go. I wouldn't I feel like maybe there is probably a little bit of a difference in the way that Google has Google is responsible for Gemini and the way that Gemini is kind of morphed and it's an amorphous kind of product that can go in every single direction. It is harder to refine. I do wonder if like that probably could be a benefit of of Apple waiting actually that they've they've allowed Google to forge a path and then they can say okay we're not going to go down this route. we're only going to stay on this particular pathway
because it allows them to be a bit more refined whereas Google being the arbittors of Gemini kind of have to go in every direction all at once. I do wonder I again it kind of goes back to what I was saying before. I wonder if we'll start to see everyone stealing more ideas from each other a little bit better. And I do think Apple playing kind of at their full capacity in this AI space is going to be good for everyone because it keeps everybody sharp. And I do wonder if like we'll start to see the Chinese OEMs kind of adopt certain things here, try and shoehorn them into their phones using the tools that they have available to them or whatever AI models they want to use on their devices. And I wonder
how much I just wonder how we're going to see Android looking in six months time. So I don't I kind of I kind of want to know how this accounts for the shortcuts tool because it's one of those things I've been very jealous of iPhone for five or six years. How does that integrate into this new series? The high level is natural language command. you can write out your um your shortcut uh conversationally and um the models will take it and make it into a shortcut which yes Android still doesn't have that um why do we think that actually is it just the app buy the third party buyin the lack of rather because on paper if Google apps first party apps just added full support for that, we would be in a pretty good place.
It's a good question. It is a really good question. I think if I'm going to be honest, I do wonder if Google thinks that Tasker is enough of a like kind of a replacement for it. Uh at the same time, I'm like you could it's just an easy home run, isn't it? We already have um yeah, is it profiles? Do we have what's the thing that thing called where you can set up certain mini shortcuts for like location and stuff? Do you remember what it's called? Oh, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And it's we kind of expected that Android 10 era when it was first kind of teased and now it's like it's in its probably most um I don't know how to describe it. Is it in rules?
Yeah, rules. That's it. I was going to say it's not routines. It's it's something similar. I had the R actually. So, if we have rules and they've been around for a long time and they haven't really developed beyond just the most rudimentary Yeah. I would love to have more of um rules stuff baked into that. It would be it'd be phenomenal, wouldn't it? If you could build your own rules. Hey, if anyone out there is at Google is listening, part of the Android team, whoever it is, please take that. We're giving you a free idea here. Just get a home run. Rules would be phenomenal if you could use that natural language with
Gemini and I mean anti-gravity does it for you now. Like it's so it would be so easy for them to set this up. Well, I say I'm talking rubbish, but it's the capabilities. I think it comes down to the capabil Because like will like you were alluding to with Google Assistant routines was a big thing that ultimately went nowhere and I guess in this modern ELA an implementation would be Gemini um with like command line interfaces again it goes back to how I think Google's ondei like compute the use strategy right now is uh it's building command line CLI which is you can um from a terminal like interface that's how you access uh that's how services interface with um the system um there's
something called Android MCP which is one half of the of Google's strategy for computer use the other is uh um the one where you it everything gets sent to the cloud uh like it your Android phone taps, scrolls, and types for you and that's inherently cloud-based right now. That is Google's competing strategy. Uh versus like instead of telling developers like Apple to build in these hooks to you where the app is used somewhat locally. Um how Google's strat strategy right now is that MCP where apps basically set up a server type thing. M yeah it's it is a weird one how different differently they see things and obviously the existence of um certain functionalities
they truly differentiate between the two again like I'm I'm intrigued to see where they both take the ball and run with it and obviously I still feel yeah I still feel like obviously the fact that Google is the underlying powering system of this I do think there's going to be some conversion or like kind of convergence more so because like I say there's no way that Apple are not speaking to Google about this what they want from it and that's going to be relayed somehow. Maybe that's why maybe that's why goo Apple chose Google in some respects to power their models because they know that they're not going to use it potentially in ways that actually affects their market share in a lot of spaces because while they did while Google and Apple
compete I don't think they compete in the same sports. Does that make sense? Like it's like you nobody's nobody's out there switching from Pixel to iPhone on mass. um Android as a platform I don't Apple doesn't even have any respect for it which is by the by um and every other platform you can use on Apple products anyway so I don't I feel like maybe that's kind of what we're going to see in the next five to six years um yeah so in terms so we have CVI we have the chatbot and the other part of it is that uh Apple shared what Apple intelligence features they're adding into their first party apps. Um, so like in the photos app, we have more um spatial reframing. Uh, we have extend.
It's basically generative AI in the photos app. I assume that's using some Google image model. Um, in messages we have stuff like it's easy to add stuff to reminders, add stuff to notes. Um, we basically have magic cue in the phone app. They call it call context. So when you're calling an airline, it'll show the it'll pull the relevant information from like your email or something. Safari tab organization um passwords app can change passwords for you agentically. It's there's nothing that Google isn't doing or has tried. So in which and I guess in this first wave, Apple just does need to hit the basics. But from a
competition standpoint, everything Apple announced, Google has already been doing, Android has already been doing. I wonder if some of it though will fall by the wayside because you've mentioned that. Is it core context? That sounds so much better than Magic Q. As soon as I heard that, that sounds so much better than Magic Q. I think Magic Q feels like too much of a catch all. Even though I do think when it works is genuinely really impressive, but it's almost like it needs to be more robust in that how it works because I sometimes get like the little um pop-up for it and I'm like, "Oh, that's cool."
And then I never see it again for like three or four weeks. Whereas I do get the impression that if Apple integrate it, they'll they'll integrate it properly and have it working every single time. But then I guess we I guess these are optimum conditions, aren't they? Maybe it will change. Maybe it will be maybe it will be like um a random and we'll see we'll see Apple fans complaining that their Siri AI doesn't work ever or that they don't get the right things. I'm intrigued. You mentioned generative eye and generative AI in the photos application because that to me screams like it would be completely at odds with how Apple treats camera and camera adjacent um systems.
I don't know. I would high the their framing around that was it doesn't change the it keeps the moment that's they did make a big point about that in the keynote before announcing the speeches that their overall philosophy it doesn't sound it's changed um but then again they have image playground which is their pixel studio competitor which is going away in Google's fund for the Gemini app. I was going to say that's how far away they are. They haven't cancelled it yet. They're they're making a rival to an app that is that was launched two years ago when it's gone.
Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure Pixel Studios was la Pixel Studio. Sorry, not studios. Pixel Studio was launched as an experiment sort of thing anyway or in preview like am I correct in thinking I think it was in preview but it's so hard in the AI there. Everything's in preview or beta or early access in the AI age. So, I never I'm never like thinking these things are going to die off, but I guess that's how you should think about them cuz we've seen like all of these companies try out experimental apps and then kill them. I mean, like Sora, right, with you know, it's it's um they love doing that. I mean, Pixel Studio is better as a system integration than an actual application in its own right. I think I
was one of the first people l kind of uh telling Google, please put it in Gboard. makes more sense to be here than it does to me in its own application. I just wonder how like yeah is Apple did were any signs of that? Is Apple just keeping everything almost siloed apart from some of this magic Q like functionality or is it in these individual apps because that definitely feels old per se in the world. Yeah, it's again it's there's nothing they're not break nothing stood out to me in terms of oh I wish Google would do that on the AI front. So, it's I've been Yeah, I'd be intrigued to see what the fallout with this one is and was there any mention of device compatibility because I know we had a big problem with last time they
announced Apple Intelligence that the most recent devices or was it the only the newest release would get unchanged? Is that unchanged? Unchanged. That is basically the compatibility risk for Apple Intelligence is pretty much unchanged which Oh dear. So, it's every M1, Mac and up, which not bad. I guess they're moving away from Intel aggressively. Um, iPads, I guess that's relevant, but it's the it's the iPhone 15 Pro and up, uh, which is honestly still pretty modern. Um, if we want to take the Pixel 8 Pro as an example.
Um, yeah. It's that is the AI stuff. We'll see how it'll shake out in the fall when this launches and yeah, they'll Stevie AI is launching in beta to Will's point about everything still being in preview. Um, but yeah, that is the main core of this a AI stuff. They announced a dubdub. Um, they did some refinements on the OS on design on Wicked Glass. And Will, I think you wanted to take that away. Damian, after a year of every Android OEM not uh named Google copying the liquid glass aesthetic, uh, Apple is adding an opacity slider.
Okay. Why would they not think to do this to begin with? Like, I don't know. I don't know, but I'm so excited for every OEM to follow and add an opacity slider in their next upgrade. All they had to do was to look at my phone, my iPhone 4, iPhone 3 circa 2010, and see that clear liquid glass elements may look good on the home screen, but everywhere else it looks terrible. Like, and look, I've like I've I wouldn't say softened. I guess I've just grown ambivalent towards the aesthetic of liquid glass. It's like I don't think it's good, but it mostly anytime, and again, I'm not on Apple devices all the
time, like my main computer is Windows, my main phone is Android, etc., etc., etc. Um, you know, the only time every I mean, every now and then it gets in the way, but for the most part, it's just like this like aesthetic I think is kind of ugly that I just when I have to use it, I have to use it. I did drag my feet on upgrading my Mac, my MacBook. I think I don't think I pushed that until a couple months ago because I really don't like how uh how liquid glass looks on Mac OS spec like specifically. I think that's where it looks the worst. Uh but yeah, I mean they're they're kind of fixing that with an opacity slider, which just brings us back to where we were two years ago,
except now everything looks a little bit more uh inspired by Vision OS, a platform that also feels uh increasingly dead. What do you think of a good glass Damian? me. I think it's detestable. I think it's disrespectful to people with accessibility concerns. I think that Yeah, it's um it was it's okay. So, this is my interpretation of how Apple does design. Sometimes Apple will stumble upon a design that is genuinely fantastic. They've had eras where the I think the was it iOS 7 genuinely incredible. But at the same time that was controversial iOS 7 um stuff. Yeah.
Then I feel like I remember people like hating some of the aspects of that. You know, I was in college at the time and I remember that up upgrade rolling out to people. Uh you know, fellow students of mine and like a lot of iPhone owners hated that update. But this is the thing with iOS 26 and now 27 with liquid glass. It definitely it feels like Apple just kind of like flex your muscle. We can do this. We have the development um kind of capabilities to do this to make this look refraction. Yeah, we have the hardware to do this and I just feel like we saw it with Vista and Arrow 20 years ago that like why give your device a performance hit just to have some
arbitrary little refle reflections which don't add to the experience drastically. And Apple is known for meticulous uh kind of attention to detail with this. And yeah, there's a lot of attention to detail, but they could have used that time and effort to build out Apple intelligence and things that actually they've trying to do rather than putting in this stupid reflection um system in and now every other Android OEM is trying to copy it or get a summation of it. I kind of find Google's lean towards this Gorsian blur which is kind of this halfway house in between refraction and reflection a little bit gling because it's like you've th you wanting to throw away one of the best elements of
material through expressive and material you before it which is a truly custom colorcoded system that works for the design I've made when everything's clear it all looks the same looks like a blurry mess so I am I could go on a rant for this for about 45 minutes to be completely honest with you but it goes against everything I learned about UX when I was at university. Um, granted that was in 2009 2010 era and yeah, it's just the entire thing has just annoyed annoyed me no end because you have one side of the fence saying it's the best thing ever. The other side of the fence who's on my side of the fence, which is my team in air cuts, um, they think how I think it just doesn't work. And Will,
I'm 100% with you. I have tried and tried to stop my Macs from updating. And what happened? They restarted and updated all of our I just got tired of the alert. I did test it. That's what I was. I detest it. I think it's awful. I think um we need to get away from this. Android needs to be Android and unashamedly so. And Google were doing that and it feels like they're not wanting to do that now. I don't mind if they take inspiration from things, but yeah, it's frustrating when you see Samsung and all these big partners just basically that's just copy everyone else's homework. you literally have a fantastic stable system to work
from and build out this a visually interesting experience that is completely different. People don't want the same. They don't want cheap slop. We're in an era of AI slop. We don't want UI slop and that's what's happening. So I guess I'm the odd man out here. Uh liquid glass. So the thing to will said there is an opacity slider. Yeah. But that's but there's also one in the opposite direction. You have the ability to make it clearer. Um to make it a bit to bit more translucent. Um the default they picked is well halfway between that but they added the slider
to go the opposite direction. So there are people that like wicked glass. I would Okay. I think the average pe average person they're fine with it. It's just like, "Oh, my new my phone looks different." I didn't hear anybody in my life complain to be honest. I didn't hear anybody compliment it either. It was just like it was like it never happen. It's the next thing. That's basically I think that's where most people the vast majority of people are. I do think there's uh Dam you talk about accessibility concerns. There's absolutely an age divide here with people and it will
hurt everybody. Everybody ages. Um you will if you like liquid grass now once your vision ages you will like it less it will become less visible that all that is coming for everyone but I guess on the opposite end I do think wicket grass is cool from an underlying those what Apple is they have the extra GPUs they have the extra their chips have the extra headroom to these to do these visually complex animations. Like I get a kick out of when you're sliding down the notification center and on your home screen and everything like on the edges everything reflects. That to me is a cool thing. And beyond that material, that grass material, I do think minimizing controls is not bad.
um uh just yeah minimizing controls I don't think that's a bad thing inherently um but anyways to the point is I think on the but on the Android side nobody is doing that part they're just doing blur to them grass is just blur and I think that's just absolute that's missing the point like it's like the dynamic iron like how people miss the point of dynamic iron which is em embracing a hardware thing that they could not get rid of that the sensor that they the IR sensor needs to be there and everybody else is just adding a pill for pill's sake. Um like dynamic iron wicked gr I think most people are missing the point with wicked grass uh when they're adopting it on the Android side but I don't I again like
most people think wicked grass is fine. I would say that there are people that like Wicked Grass that is more on the techy audience too, but and there are people that hate it, but overall I think it's just I think there are cool aspects to it. Um that's that's I guess where I land on the glass. Yeah. I mean, like I say, from a technical standpoint, I have a lot of time for it. I just think from a practical standpoint, I just don't get who it benefits. It doesn't benefit anyone. like it's all it's it's a modernization and iOS 7 is God how many years old is it before it's 10 plus years 15 yeah it might be a lot hey we don't have to talk about when I was in college I don't need to think about when that was
I want to say it was 2014 I want to say was iOS 7 right it is weird that it is weird that this was tried in the early 2000s and there was no there was not enough computing power and it was absolutely admished and now it's old is new again and everyone there's a there are a lot of people out there lording it and I think I use accessibility as a component of it but at the same time it's like one thing I don't like about how Apple does things in terms of their UI in general is for desktops I don't really care because it's functional but for a mobile phone which is kind of a personal thing I find it very sy when everyone ends up with anyone everyone has the same phone and I think I don't like that aspect of it and
liquid glass just makes that even worse because everything's clear. It's literally one or two colors in the background and everything becomes the same and there is no individualism there and they're becoming the and it's like that 1984 thing. I'm like I feel like the one person I'm going to have to throw this big uh heavy hammer through the screen on an Apple ad to prove that you've literally become what you claimed you weren't. Like there's no individualism there. It doesn't make sense to me that a company that claims it to be on about Apple's never been about that I mean the I so you know you can customize an iPhone now more than ever I would argue right like that is true they essentially well okay I'll say this you it is
somehow despite the fact that it is an incredibly obnoxious weight uh process it is easier to get truly custom icons on the iPhone over Pixel specifically. Like I'm not counting custom launchers. Like if you are sticking with the main launcher, you can do it easier on iOS than you can Pixel, not counting Google's AI. I'm I'm talking stuff like whatever you want it to be, right? Like obviously Apple or Google has those new AI filters, but you know, I to come I guess I'm I'm sort of in the middle of you guys, I guess, right? And not to say that Abner is like a full-on liquid glass stand or anything like that, but that you are and I see
both of your arguments and for me, you know, at the end of the day, Apple can do whatever Apple wants to do and I don't really care, right? And like if they want to Well, God, that's the other thing, right? Is that like this is a company at the end of an era. Like I don't we don't know what is next for Apple. This was Tim Cook's last WWDZ and so like they might I don't know maybe John Tannis, right? I've been calling him Mr. Tumnness from Narnia as a joke. So I don't know what his last name is anymore. Um maybe he hates this. Maybe he wants to go in a different direction in a couple years. Like I don't know.
Nobody knows except for him. Um so you know putting all of that aside to focus more on the Android side of things. My bigger problem and we don't have to go too big picture on this is that basically every company but Google has shown like a complete lack of interest in any amount of software development that isn't AI focused, right? And so it's, you know, I've been using these Moto Razor for a while now. And it's it's so frustrating that a phone that felt so fresh and fun in 2023 and then again in just a couple years later feels so stale because they have not evolved the software. Like that's true. Like they haven't evolved the hardware either, but the software is like the real problem where it's like, "Okay, you want to keep
the same design with this big front display. Give me something new on the big front display other than the same nine panels you've had since 2023." And these companies refuse to do it, right? There's there is just absolutely no interest in like making or even just like rethinking what a software experience should be in between generations, which is fine if you're going to make any improvements anywhere else. But the problem is now that we have these companies that are making like hardware that is barely if at all changed from the previous generation combined with software that is barely if at all changed from the previous generation. And you're you're like, "Well, no wonder this starts to feel a
little stale when the only new thing on whatever phone you're upgrading is a is like a liquid glass ripoff and some AI tools, a dynamic island ripoff." To your point, Abner, some AI tools made in-house by the brand you're buying that you know you're not going to use on your OnePlus 15 or whatever. That's it. That's like what the experience is. Oh, and the price is $300 more because of the RAM shortage. So, I don't know. Like I really hope we see some um fresh software ideas. Not even I'm this is not really a critique of Google. It's of everybody else. Ironically, it's if you really think about it like doing a new UI UX is so much easier than like doing AI development cheaper too.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's a really good point. yet. So, how would you rate this WWDC in terms of what it has shown Apple's hand as it were? Is it was it good bad? It was a very short 75minut keynote. short 75 minutes as opposed to a long for Apple these days that is short. Is that short? Okay. Compared to IO the dev conference or the dev keynote the main keynote at IO, right? which was roughly 2 hours, I think. Um, yeah. 75 minutes for a WWDC is I want to say like 90 minutes is usually what feels right. And then in recent years, they've been going a little like I know that first Apple Intelligence one was longer cuz I remember getting increasingly annoyed it
hadn't ended. Yeah, it's it was a short one. They played catchup and it's it really comes down to how uh what the summer looks like. Yeah. A bit of a shrug on my end just because it's like okay like you've been talking about this for several years now. Just you know let's see what you got. Well as we wrap up WWDC I think let's turn our attention to something a little bit more fun to end the episode with. Um, Google announced a couple like within the last 24 hours, 48 hours that they're going to team up with, of all
people, I don't think she was relevant anymore. No disrespect to you, Mrs. Miss Hilton. Paris Hilton's show, she's doing a showcase with Android and building applications with AI. like is this going to be the turning point for code like kind of vibe coding for Android applications or is this the most out of left field partnership Google's had in a long time? I don't know. It's weird. It's like Motoa was the one that first did stuff with Yeah. And it's still there's still a Moto connection here. She's got the Razer Fold in that announcement post. Like that's the phone she's using.
So, it still is kind of Moto adjacent, which is interesting. Yeah. And then she did the Android Auto thing. So, like is Paris Hilton I mean I don't want to Android's biggest defender. Android's biggest defender now. Like of all people and again this goes back to the whole thing of I was saying about with Apple that old is new again. Like Paris Hilton's new again. Like I know that she's had a new career as a DJ, but I'm surprised they didn't try and lean into that a little bit more. This just seems like one of the weirdest collaborations I've ever seen. You think that they've done the things with Steph Curry and Fitbit and Pixel like that
makes sense because obviously in the US he's a huge star but this is like are we clutching at straws here is or is this because it's a person who wouldn't be ant wouldn't be associated with coding like I don't know I guess vibe having vibe coding that's I think that's good everybody should vibe code it really changes the landscape really changes it empowers people genuinely But I guess the somewhat cynical take is it that hard to find people that actually use Android? H I mean in her words she's been using Android in air quotes for years, but then you could argue that you might have a I don't know an in-car I mean then again she'll have a driver. So I was about to say she'll have an in-car entertainment system that might be
powered by Android but she'll have a private drive everywhere. So, he might use Android or she may have seen one in the back of an Uber, but I don't know if that technic I mean, I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but I can't imagine she's been the kind of person who's been deep diving deep into Android beta updates. Well, no, definitely not. It is so interesting that because I'm sitting here and I'm like what would it take for any of us to believe a celebrity that they are an Android user? Do you know what I mean? Because it is interesting that every time one of these companies Tony Hawk is he a big android but like and if you're listening to Tony get in touch and Giannis the certainly are those people but it is it
isn't every you know this is a very long time ago but like you would have those spokespeople who would uh who would post stuff on Twitter that it would this was back when you could see what was used to well but they don't you can't see what it was what client it was posted from, but you used to see like I love my new Galaxy S7 posted from Twitter for iOS, right? Like it's it's that was an era, which I think is probably how we get to this point where we all look at people at celebrities saying they use Android. Um, and you go like, but do you um, you know, and I think it becomes more when you're talking about somebody like Paris Hilton, a celebrity out of status and wealth more than any and reality television, uh,
over, you know, uh, like a basketball player like Giannis. It become it's one of those things where you kind of start to do the thing of like, well, there's no way Paris Hilton wasn't messaging people on iMessage, right? like there's no way Paris Hilton was the green bubble in her group chats. Um and obviously that is we're in a different era now, but that era is pretty fresh. And so yeah, I don't know. I guess like at this point I just kind of want to take her word her at her word even though she's obviously paid for this because it doesn't harm me at all to just like imagine Paris Hilton as like a hard like she actually really does love her moto razor, right? Like I that's fun. So that's just where I'm at. like sure if
they want to pay her for this spokes. Uh it is it's just it is interesting that they keep expanding her role, you know, first in Motorola and now kind of in Android at large. Maybe it works. Maybe it's one of those things that works. But yeah, I'm intrigued. Um, we had I mean I again I don't think she's going to be out there diving in deep into the Android 17 QPR1 beta 4 which dropped which is I think if I'm say so myself is one of the best segways ever done. Uh this was dropped just last night as we're recording this. Nothing huge here. I mean I guess you could argue that she may be updating because she wants to try that um kind of a selfie
selfie cam. What's it called? Uh, I mean, I screen reactions. I could imagine Paris Hilton being a big screen reactor. Like, this could be a big thing. Like, that was the most notable new addition. Uh, it's a small update. Like, it's nice that this got pushed out way ahead of probably where we were expecting it. Um, so yeah, if you want to do some Paris Hilton level screen reactions to I guess one takeaway, beta 3 was pretty laugh in terms of daily driver. Beta a day in beta 4 looks fine. It's definitely has more stuff than the base 17 update. So, if you want to upgrade, it's probably safe. You can I guess wait one more month before or see what the
stable Android 17 brings first. But yeah, otherwise we're hopeful it's coming soon, right? We're hopeful that's coming in the next three two or three weeks, right? Because we're getting very close to the middle of June and but I guess it kind of fits with Google's previous timelines for 16 last year. And I don't know, I'm excited to see that drop and maybe we can get into QPR proper. Same. Yeah. Um, that's that's basically all we got for you this week, guys. I'm sorry we've we've done a big Apple focused episode and if you are out there celebrating the start of the World Cup, you're a Mexico fan, you're a South
Africa fan, I hope you have a great evening tonight. We recalling this before the first game in the tournament. I know my two colleagues here are not necessarily as indepth into the soccer aka football as I am, but Germany. I uh when I hear football, I think American football. We rightly so. And uh yeah. Well, real quick, Abner. Uh Nicks or Spurs? I think Nick. There we go. Amazing. I'm I'm going to go that killed. I just want to say I could see the pain in his face as he was like the New York team.
I think when the Yami this is I can't pronounce his name. I think he's going to be the star for the foreseeable future but I don't think they have it yet this year. Like they're ahead of schedule. They're like really ahead of schedule. The Spurs are really ahead of schedule for them being this far. Yeah. Uh I don't know. Does New York need another thing though? I mean, they haven't had it in years, but they have everything else already. So, thanks everybody for listening. Uh, it's been a long winding episode talking WWDC, AI, and everything else in between. And if you're out there, Paris, drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you. Maybe have you as a guest on Paris, come on side. I will absolutely interview Paris Hilton on my
podcast. And I look forward to listening to it. Thanks, guys. And I will speak to you soon. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to Pixelated, a 9to5 Google podcast. If you enjoyed the show, we ask that you rate and review it on the podcast platform of your choice and help spread the word by sharing the show with friends or on social media.
