3:36
Mel, I want to start by saying that work has been considered the main cause of stress. You write about this in the book "The Life of People". How can the "let them be" theory help people in the area that causes them the most stress? That 's an excellent question. Well, first, without any pun intended, let me explain the theory. In case you haven't come across it on the Internet, the theory is very simple. It's a mindset tool that helps you instantly identify what is under your control and what is not. The reason this is important is because any psychologist will tell you that if you focus on and try to manage things that will
never be under your control, it will only generate stress, anxiety, and frustration. And the way you're going to use the "let them go" theory is every time something happens at work that stresses you out. You have a customer who is very rude. You lose an important account. They overlook you for a reason. They dismiss your idea in a work meeting. When you notice the stress increasing, Jay, you'll simply say, " Let them be." "Let my boss be in a bad mood." "Let my colleague take the credit." "Let the customer be rude to me." And here's the thing: this sounds almost like you're being a doormat and passive. It's exactly the opposite. When you say, "Let them go," you are acknowledging that the situation that just happened has already happened and there is no
reason to allow it to stress you out. When you allow your boss's mood to stress you out or make you nervous, you are giving them power they do n't deserve. Therefore, you will say: " Leave them alone." When you say, "Leave them alone," something interesting happens. First, you disassociate yourself. Secondly, you feel almost superior. It's strange, because I don't think this is the same as saying that we have to let it go. You are a very level-headed person, Jay. You seem like the type of person who can let everything go. I? Whenever someone told me, "Mel, I know, I know what's happening at work isn't fair. You have to let it go," I would think, "But I feel like I've lost. I feel like I have to be defeated now." I feel more like a
doormat if someone tells me to let something go. What's the difference between letting it go and letting them? For me, when I say "leave them," I feel a jolt of superiority. Because I think, "I can see that my boss is a bit of an idiot and I'm going to let him be an idiot." And I get over it and feel a little critical. I mean, if I'm being completely honest, that's why people get this tattooed on their bodies. Because when you say the word "leave them" or see it on your arm, what happens is that you no longer allow a rude colleague or something frustrating at work to ruin your day. You say, " Let them be," you rise above it and say, "I see what's going on here. I'm going to allow it without allowing it
." But then there's a second part, Jay. And this is the most important part. And it 's the part that people don't get tattooed because it's the most difficult part. And the second part of this theory is telling yourself, "Let me. Let me remind myself that in life there are always three things I can control. That's where my power is. My power isn't in controlling my boss or trying to deal with a client who just does n't want to be in a good mood and doesn't want to be calmed down. They want to be right. They want to take it out on you. So you're going to let them. But then you've created this boundary. You rise above it. I'm going to let you get angry. I'm not going to let it affect me. And then you say, 'Let me
.' And what you remind yourself is that there are three things you can control, Jay. What you think next, what you do or don't do- and often, not doing something is a more powerful decision-and how you process your emotions. Those are the three things that are always under your control. And when you say, 'Let me take responsibility right now for how I'm going to respond to this,'" And the word responsibility, after all, is the ability to respond, right? Yes. And then, when you say, "Leave me alone," and you remember that I can think whatever I want about this, I can act in response to it, and I can process my emotions and let them rise and fall and stay steady and calm, or, you
know, you can explode if you want. But why would you want to do that? Because then that means you've given power to someone else. I want to describe another scenario so that people really understand the system. Let's say you have a partner, boyfriend, girlfriend, maybe you're married to that person, and this person always comes home from work a little late. Uh-huh. She doesn't wash the dishes. You wake up in the morning and the dishes are always out there. It feels like you 've told him this bothers you a million times. Did my husband ask you to ask me this question, Jay? It know. Chris, Chris, Chris has your
number, so he probably texted you. Yes, yes, Chris said Yes, of course, and well, I speak from my personal experience, not direct, but personal in many ways. And you say that this person is not changing, that they haven't changed in the last 6 months. Rule, everyone. First of all, you ca n't change another human being. It's impossible to change another person. Now, you can influence it, but you can't change it. People only change if they want to and if they can. And to wish is a wonderful thing. Wishing and wishing that someone would be cleaner and pick up after themselves, that your children would be more motivated, that the people you love would take better care of themselves and be healthier, that they would date
someone normal and healthy instead of losers who treat them like trash. It's a beautiful thing you want for others, and you deserve to do it and you should do it. Wanting people to change is not the problem. Wanting more opportunities for people is not the problem. However we do it, yes, it is. And so, in the scenario you 're talking about, this is a beautiful example because you have to say " leave them alone". You see the dishes in the sink and it bothers you because you feel disrespected and it's annoying, and you have higher standards of cleanliness, which means you'll probably wash them anyway and then you'll feel like you really take everything for granted, but you have to say "leave them." And one of
the reasons is because, firstly, if it's a long-term committed relationship, learning to love someone just as they are is a profoundly important form of love. And if you ca n't say "leave them" at that moment, you will become frustrated and angry and then you will come to the next part of the "leave them" theory with tremendous intensity and judgment, and that will not motivate change. What you do when you judge someone or pressure them is create resistance to change. So you have to say "let them go" because it allows you to disconnect from your emotions and disconnect from judgment, right? It is what it is. I see what has happened. I am accepting the reality of this. Leave them alone. Then you get to the "
leave me alone" part. Is this something that bothers you? And if so, remember that you have three things. I can choose what I want to think about this, so you could think of something good. You might think, " Okay, good intentions." They were probably very busy this morning and wanted to do it later. Leave them be. Okay, I'll choose to believe that. You could also remind yourself: " Let me remind myself that there is something I can do about it." OK? And if it's really important, what you need to do about it is have a conversation. And, by the way, Chris has had this conversation with me a million times. So, if you walk into our bathroom, Chris's bathroom probably looks like your
side of the sink, which is like a seven-star zen hotel, Jay. In other words, there isn't a speck of dust in that man's toilet, or whatever you call it. If you look at mine, it looks like someone tipped over an entire Walgreens aisle on top of that thing. And that drives Chris crazy. But what really drives him crazy is when something migrates from my side to his side, right? And then, he asked me. He asked me to please store my things there. He asked me to please flatten the cardboard boxes when they arrived. Please don't pack them, unpack them, and then pile them up by the garage door as if I'm the one who has to do it. And he asked me again and again, and then I forgot. Well, I finally sat down,
Jay. And this is the "leave me" part. You need to take responsibility for explaining to someone what you need and why this is important to you. Because when Chris told me, " I know it's not your intention, but this is the impact, Mel. When I see the cardboard boxes stacked up or I see your hairbrush and 15 of your products on my countertop, I actually feel like you think I'm the housekeeper." And we don't even have a housekeeper. It's like you think it's my job to clean up your mess. And that doesn't make me feel loved. Now, when she took the time to talk about her values and communicate what she needed in a very calm way, something interesting happened. If you're in a committed romantic relationship and you're with someone who
wants to improve and cares about you, that taps into their intrinsic motivation to develop new skills. If you have that kind of conversation with someone and explain how their behavior affects you, whether it's their drinking, their tone of voice, the fact that they leave their things everywhere, or that they insist you spend the entire vacation with their family and are n't interested in you at all. Whatever the problem is, if you sit someone down and take responsibility, you let them be and allow them to show you who they are. And then you say, "Let me sit down and talk about this and take responsibility."
I have the ability to respond to this like a mature adult. "And you really express what you need and why, and that person doesn't even try, you have to let them. And here's why. Their behavior is telling you the truth. Their behavior is telling you what matters to them and what their priorities are. And if their behavior is telling you that your needs aren't a priority, you have to let them reveal that. Because that's. That's also what letting them do it means. Yes. Because then you'll go back to the second part, which is, let me ask myself, is this kind of behavior from someone what I deserve? Is this what I'm willing to accept from someone? Because, again, what do we know, too?
People only change when they want to or can. Yes. And you may find yourself in a situation where someone would love to change, but they can't. Because they're dealing with some challenge right now, or they don't yet have the ability. And you can decide, if that's the case, to continue loving and accepting the person. Right. Right? Yes. But there may be times when you've had the conversation, and it's very clear that they're capable." of doing it. They simply won't. Yes. And what I find in relationships where that kind of invisible distance arises, the frustration and resentment is twofold. Number one, you can't detach yourself from the emotions and say, "Leave them alone." "And really let
the person be who they are. And you don't do the 'let me' part, where you actually take responsibility for maturely expressing what you need and how their behavior affects you. So if you never express what you need and how it affects you, you're not really giving someone the opportunity to develop a skill, to change, or to love you the way you need to be loved in order for you to feel loved. The second mistake I see constantly is that you ask, and then the person doesn't, and then you start making excuses, and resentment grows. And you get stuck seeing exactly who you wish someone would change, living up here in your mind on the fantasy of what you wish they were, refusing to accept the reality of what they actually are. You just
unlocked a whole new meaning of 'let them be' for me. How so? I've always understood the idea of ' let them be' when I've heard you talk about it, when I read the book, this idea of 'let them be who they are.' Let them act however they want to act." Let them say and do what they want to do. I have to let them. I have to maintain that distance. What you just discovered for me, and what I really want everyone to grapple with because I think it's so powerful, is this idea of letting them show you who they are, too. Yes. And if they show you who they are, let them be that person. Don't mold them into the person you imagine, the person you wish they were, the one you're waiting and hoping they'll finally become
. They are that person. Yes. Let them be. Oh my God, my mind is literally blown because that's so powerful. But you still have power, Jay. This is the most important thing, everyone. This is the most important thing. This is the epiphany I had, too. Mhm. Oh can still choose. I can choose how much time and energy I put into this. Whether it's this problem, this issue, or this person. Mhm. And that's how you know if you can truly love someone for who they are and who they are n't. Can you stop Complaining and complaining about it? Because if you can't do that, then it's something you're clinging to and holding onto the other person
And if it's never going to change, now you have a problem. Yes. Because the only thing that's going to improve the relationship is for them to listen to you, to care enough, and to be able to adapt, or for you to be the one who adapts because you're complaining about it, and that creates friction and resentment. When you start to consider your energy and your time, if you think of it as money, yes. And this idea of imagining that for every thought you have about that person, you have to pay them a dollar. And you think about how many dollars, if you were to start counting the number of thoughts you have about that person, about that situation, about what they said, about what they said to so-and-so
, what they thought about you, and you had to pay a dollar for every thought you had about them. That's the amount of energy, time, and money that's being wasted. Yes. And we don't realize where else it could be invested and put. But I think you've hit the nail on the head. The reason is that we get so attached that we don't feel like we can leave. As Thich Nhat Hanh would say, we prefer to live in familiar pain, right?, rather than unknown pain. Right. At least we know what we're going to get with this person. And there's a part of us that clings to that even unconsciously.
Well, here's the thing, Jay. Because I think it's a really important point you're making, but this is what I think you're going to discover. I think you're only attached to it because you don't value your time and energy. Absolutely. You 're only attached to it because you've never experienced anything else. Yes. And the reason you're used to it is because in the dynamics of the relationship, you're usually in your head, in a relationship, explaining the behavior, rather than seeing it with clear eyes and detaching from it. And that's the other reason-and I know you knew this instantly-why the " leave them" theory and saying "leave them" and "leave me"-one of the reason it's
so powerful and excites me so much is that I literally feel like I'm surrounded by ancestors because this is a modern application of ancient philosophy, spiritual guidance, Stoicism, and detachment theory that you can apply anytime, anywhere, in any relationship. And what I also love about it, Jay, is that I think it allows you to truly see people, maybe for the first time, and give them the space to be who they are. And from that space, the amazing thing is that you can let people-for example, many of us are very affected and motivated when someone is disappointed. Or when we think someone is going to be really disappointed in us. And I had this big breakthrough because I used to feel very guilty, either about how much I worked or about the
fact that Chris and I were raising our kids. My kids lived on the East Coast and my parents lived in the Midwest. And, you know, I love my parents and I wish we could all live together, but here's the thing: they're not moving into my house and I'm not moving into theirs. We have to let them. Right But there are a lot of emotions involved, and I know your family is everywhere, too, so you're not like, "I'm not going to say anything because my family will hear about this." So here's the thing. If I don't go home to my family for the holidays, my parents will be disappointed. Let them be disappointed. I mean, isn't it a beautiful thing for them to be disappointed? You don't want someone to be disappointed because you're not coming?
That really confuses people, right? Like, if you can't make it to a business engagement or a birthday party or you can't come home this year, I mean, what 's the alternative? That they're like, " Thank goodness Jay isn't coming." I can't stand her . "No, seriously. It's like you really have to process this in your brain. And then, when you say, ' Let them be disappointed,' something beautiful happens. You honor their experience as human beings. You allow them to be adults. Yes. That's a sign, that emotion, that things are really going well in your relationship. Yes. But then you say, 'Let me.' And my old self would get tangled up in knots and make me feel bad and question what I was doing and do my best to try to be there and
here. And instead, when I say, ' Let me,' I turn to my values. I value family deeply. And then, if they're disappointed, that's not the reason I would change the plans. I have to think about what I think, what I want to do, and how I'm going to process my emotions. Yes. And then, when someone is disappointed, my old self would feel deeply guilty and conflicted. Now, with the ' let them be' theory, I have space for them to be disappointed and for me to feel a little sad. But if I change the plans, I don't I do it for them. Because if I change plans for them, guess what I just did? I made them the villains in my life. If I change plans because it makes me feel like a good daughter, it makes me feel good. Now
I take responsibility for my life and own my decisions. And it's a small nuance, but it's absolutely everything. Yes. And the other reason I love this, especially as a mother of adult children-and you know, there are many-this is a book about adult relationships. And that's why I make that very clear in the book, and there are resources for parents with young children at the end. But one of the coolest things about this is when you let someone have their emotions and let someone struggle while you say, "I'm on the sidelines and I'm here to support you, but I know that the best teacher in life is life, and I'm not going to protect you from the consequences of some of the things you 're choosing." You are an adult.
So I'm going to leave you alone." When you give someone the space to process their emotions, face their struggles, and heal in their own way and in their own time, you're actually communicating that I believe you can. Yes. When you step in and try to force someone to be more motivated in school or. Let's take that example, because I. There are a lot of people who listen to my show, and I'm sure it's the same people who listen to yours who write in and say, "I don't know how to motivate this person more." Oh, right. Right? And this is what I want you to understand, and this was another big breakthrough when I was writing this book.
You want to meet the hardest- working person in a class, Jay? It's the kid who's struggling. It's not the people getting straight A's. It's the person who's really having a hard time. Wow. You want to meet the person who's putting in the most effort for their health? It's actually the person who isn't healthy. And therefore, they're not stuck. She's in a deep and active conflict with herself. So, if someone is already aware that there's a gap between their potential and their performance, that there's a gap between the God-given right they have to thrive, be happy, and be connected, and how they actually feel about their life, they know it.
And then you come along and try to impose your will or your good ideas. Oh, thank you very much. Well, I never thought that if I wanted to get good grades, I had to study and not play video games. Thank you, Einstein. Oh, should I go to the gym if I want to lose weight? I never thought about that. So, you come along and you have judgments and assumptions. What is it? That's more pressure, yes. Especially for someone who's already in a deep conflict with themselves. Yes. And then, if you really accept this and understand that people change when they want to and when they can, and if someone is struggling, it's because they're
not able to do it right now. There's a missing skill. And one of the most important things that's often missing is the belief that any of the small actions will actually make a difference anyway. Yes. And then, when you come in and impose something, you know what that says? It really says, "I don't think you can do this." Mhm. I'll do it for you. Yes. I can do it for you. I can work it out for you. Yes, of course. I actually wrote this with my daughter, who's 25, and it was an amazing experience because she brought a very different perspective.
And when we were writing the section on how to use the "let them" theory with love, she started researching the breakup section because the reality of love is that people choose who and how they love, and sometimes they don't choose you. But you also get to choose who and how you love and how you're going to create it. And people forget that. And so we got to the part about when a relationship is ending. . I have to let him walk out the door. I have to let him go, and this is a bummer of mine, like If nothing. And it was an incredible experience because when someone you love is grieving, or going through heartbreak, or struggling, you'd jump in front
of a car to ease their pain. And the theory of letting go and the experience in this book taught me that the best thing I could do was let her cry. Let her go through her process. You know, I think of it this way, like when you hug someone. You're not blocking or tearing them down. You have your arm around someone. But if they 're on the ground sobbing, let them. Because they need it. You know, if we need to delete the photos of the familial relationship because it was a two-year relationship, that's a big recommendation I make in this book: you have to follow a 30-day rule of zero contact, zero photos, zero videos, because you're not letting them go
. You have to unlearn the patterns in your life that were with them. It's a withdrawal like anything else. And any sign of that person actually triggers the old patterns in your nervous system and slows down your ability to Overcoming it. Of course. And it's impossible when you're in that situation to let it go. Because every part of your wiring and programming, you'll want to check its location. You'll want to listen to the voice notes. You'll want to saturate yourself. Because the life you wanted is over. And either you'll get stuck in a life where you're no longer watching their life unfold from afar. And you're going to keep reactivating these patterns in your
nervous system because you're going to keep this person in your life even though they've walked out the door. That's why you have to let it go. And then you have to let me do the hard part, which is choosing how I'm going to get over this. And the research is also really empowering. It gets better for most people; 71% of people start feeling better at 11 weeks. That's in my 11 weeks. And you might feel better in 11 days. What happens at 11 weeks? What happens at 11 weeks, if you 're not stalking someone online, is that you've actually allowed your body to break down The old patterns.
Right. Look, the reason why when you're going through heartbreak and breakups are like death. That's what they are. Definitely. Because you're grieving for something that's no longer there. The life you had, the life you could have had. And aside from the 30-day rule, which is not looking at voice notes, locations, social media, nothing. No photos because it triggers everything that's still alive in you. But during those 30 days, what's going to happen is that every time you wake up, you're going to feel them there because your body remembers. That does n't mean it's a sign that you should go back.
Yes. Actually, it's a sign that you're unlearning something. Let those memories surface. Let your nervous system process them. Every time you have something new in your life, you're going to want to reach back to them. Why? Because that was the pattern. That doesn't mean you should. Yes. So you have to let them go and remind yourself that I'm going through This process. And every day you do it, you're actually unlearning these patterns. And when you get to 30 days, you feel less intoxicated. Another great recommendation is to do something in your bedroom, like paint a wall, move the bed, do something because you spent so much time in there. So, going back into it is like a graveyard of your old life,
and it can be very triggering. And so it did. And the 11-week mark is important because what's happening is that you're now starting to create new patterns. By letting go, you're now allowing me to move on. You're allowing me to take the steps that show me my life is moving forward. And my therapist, Ann Deaven, who is the smartest woman I've ever met, said to me, "You know, Mel, what Sawyer should ask himself is if he knew the love of his life was literally only a couple of months away, what would he do right now with that period of time?" "And when you think about it that way, because, again, as long as you're holding onto someone who's already gone, you're not really open to meeting anyone else. That's beautiful. That idea of how you
would look, what you would think, how you would behave if the love of your life were two months away. Yeah, or two years or a year or whatever. You see, because we think that when someone you love leaves, you think you 're not worthy of being loved. In fact, you think you'll never find them again. You hate yourself. That's why most of the advice on this is complete nonsense. Go and love yourself. How the hell am I supposed to love myself if the person I love more than anything just left me? I hate myself. I despise myself. I'm terrified of the day they meet someone. Yeah. I'll never find them again. I'll never have sex like that again. I'm not like you, hating yourself. And that's why telling someone to go on a diet Whether it's
revenge or self-love, it's awful. Instead, I want you to face reality. They're gone, let them go. And then let me grieve and take my therapist's and Evan's advice. You need to do a 30-day detox. And if you're someone who's been holding onto someone who left a year ago, I guarantee you have n't gone 30 days without listening to a voice note or looking at a picture. You 're keeping them alive. Which keeps you stuck in something that's dead. And your inability to let them go and then accept reality and start moving on and believe that the person I'm meant to meet is in the future. Not in my past. And by the way, even if you're secretly hoping, it could be the person from the past. It could be, but it's not the version of them from back then.
And neither are you. And then you have to go back to where the power is. It's not in getting them back. It's not in making them jealous because if you focus on making them jealous or whatever, where are you putting Your power? You have to put your power here. And the reason I love the 30-day rule and the 11- week mark is because it's the truth. This is going to be awful. The only way to get over someone and get over heartbreak is to get over it. There's no way around it. You just have to postpone it. And we do postpone it. Mhm. Because we don't want to accept people for who they are. Yes. When someone breaks up and leaves you or cheats on you, they've just revealed who they are.
No doubt about it. And your inability to accept that, instead of justifying it and living in a fantasy up here, that's what's holding you back from having and creating the love you truly deserve and want in your life. And as I listen to you speak, it seems to me that it would have been harder to watch your daughter having to put the "leave them" theory into practice than it would have been for you to put the "leave them" theory into practice. Yes. When she was going through her breakup, would you say that's the hardest way you've ever had to put Do you put the "let them be" theory into practice in your closest circle?
Yes, the hardest way is when you recognize someone's potential and see that they're struggling. And when you recognize that someone you love deeply is suffering. When you say "let them be, " you're not abandoning someone. You're actually acknowledging their capacity to face those difficult moments in their life with you by their side. And I think that, when I think about supporting rather than enabling, the more you intervene and rescue people from their feelings or the consequences of their decisions or inaction, the more people continue to drown in their problems. I truly believe that. I really do. And it's a very, very difficult balance because you're going to reach your frustration and
hit rock bottom and worry about someone before they do. And someone said something in the addiction community. I do n't remember who said this, but it's very true that someone only gets sober when getting drunk is harder than facing something they don't want to face. Yes. And the same goes for everything. Like truly motivating yourself to get in better shape. Recognizing that you have a pattern of dating emotionally abusive people and taking a break and delving deeper into the problem that keeps resurfacing for you-that's really hard. That's why we avoid it And then, when you see someone you know is capable or deserves better, wishing them that is a way of loving them. I like that you want the people you care about in your life
to be better, and I hate to see someone with so much potential waste it. Yes. But again, I'm going back to something I learned from Dr. Stuart Ablon at Massachusetts General Hospital. People do well when they can. I want you to start assuming that if someone in your life isn't doing well, or if they're going through a challenge, there's a skill they're lacking, or there's an emotion that needs to be processed, or there's a pain that needs to be felt before they can mobilize the capacity to do the very hard work of changing. And in the case of watching my daughter go through this anguish, I literally found myself, Jade, wanting to
text her boyfriend and Her boyfriend's mom is like, you know, hey, maybe we can do this just because I want to fix it. But when you step in and fix it, you literally degrade another person. Because I know she has the capacity to overcome this. That's why the way I love to think about support is this: The next time you have someone in your life who's really struggling, whether it's in school, in relationships, or with an addiction, I want you to think, "How can I create an environment that supports their healing?" "It's not about not intervening and doing it. It's rarely a matter of willpower. As if it weren't a matter of willpower or desire. It's really more about skill, the ability and the need to process things and do them on their own
timeline, right? So how do you create an environment for that to happen? For me, it meant removing any images. It meant letting her stay awake in her room and occasionally knocking on the door and asking, 'Do you need anything?'" "And to allow him to be in his pajamas for four days and be in a depressive state because, guess what? Being in a depressive state, throwing himself on the floor and crying is a sign that he's mentally okay. That's what you do. It's a sign that you're okay. Yes. It would be scary if he didn't feel anything. And then, when you're ready, you put this kind of armor on people. So, how can you do this? When Sawyer was born, I had severe postpartum depression, Jay. I had
a very traumatic delivery, lost a lot of blood, and was so out of it that I was prescribed medication that turned me into a zombie. I couldn't breastfeed her. I wasn't allowed to be alone with her. I missed the first three and a half months of her life. And nobody asked me if I needed help. They showed up and created an environment where I could get better. I had my parents drive over and stay, and they just did the laundry, cleaned, and did what needed to be done. And people who are going through hard times don't even know what they need. So don't ask anyone what you can do. Find something you can do. Show up with some food. Go into your brother's room and open the curtains in the morning when he's struggling with
depression to let in the sunlight. Create a playlist for someone. Pick it up. For example, don't say you want to meet up for yoga. Say, "This is what we're going to do." I'm going to pick you up on Saturday and we'll go to that yoga class. Or I'll go on Sunday and look after the children and the dog so you can go to the park and read a book for 2 hours. This is how you create an environment for another person to improve. And the other way to do it is, instead of judging, to let them be who they are. You'll let them work hard and then use this incredibly effective technique. I called her ABC Mhm so I could remember her.
Mhm. First, you will apologize. Let's talk about a problem I had with our son. He did n't seem motivated. So I would constantly ask him, " Why aren't you motivated? Why aren't you studying much? Why are you doing this?" "It didn't work. Yeah, it doesn't work. No. And then, finally, A, you're going to apologize. I'm sorry for pressuring you. I'm sorry for questioning you. And then A, you're going to ask an open-ended question. How do you feel about this? And it doesn't matter what they say, because you're probably asking for the first time how they really feel about it. Mhm. And then you're going to ask a really important question. You're going to ask, ' What would you like to do about it, if
anything?'" "." And their answers don't matter, because what you do by apologizing is eliminate the pressure you're putting on them. And now, when asking these questions, and I like to do this in a car, Jay, because they're trapped. And since they both look ahead, it's not so conflicting. And there's something about the science of forward wandering and movement that really opens your mind. And then you ask, " What do you want to do about it, if anything?" "And what's happening is that you're now revealing this tension, because people who are stuck know it. People who are struggling know it. People who are failing in school know it. Nobody wants to fail. It's not that people are trying to get depressed. It's not that people are trying to
be very unhealthy. People know when they're letting themselves go. You don't have to remind them. But have you ever asked them, 'What would you like to do about it, if anything?'" "." What happens in that question, whether they have answered it or not, is that friction arises between what they know to be true about what they want and where they actually are. That is the intrinsic organizing motivation that someone needs to want to do better. Mhm. And then you have to do B, reverse. That's the hard part. Leave them be. Let me be quiet. You know, just leave them be.
Leave them be. I'm not going to roll my eyes. Let me. And people need space for it to be their idea. And I'll give you a quick example. I used to be the type of person who would eat like I was having lunch and work on my computer. I was like typing on my computer, shoving a sandwich down my throat, right? And there was a colleague who got up and went for a walk almost every day. And every time he came back, he had a smile on his face, took off his headphones, and went back to work. And this continued for weeks. And finally one day, Jay, I looked outside and it was a beautiful day and I thought, "I think I'll go for a walk." Now, here's the interesting part. I did n't believe him. I thought it was my
idea. His example influenced my desire to do it. People close to you need enough distance from you. That's why you have to take a step back to avoid that friction. Yes. And that restlessness to sit with them. So that they feel safe. Mhm . in order to be able to take the next step. And then you better keep backing off because you don't want to be like, "Oh, I saw you did n't go into your te-Like that's kind of like No." So you move on, leave them. And then part C is anything small, you celebrate it in a non-passive-aggressive way. And in fact, you model change. You can't ask someone to stop drinking while you're pouring yourself a glass of wine. Of course. You ca n't ask someone to get healthy if you're sitting on the
couch eating potato chips. So, you model the change and make it easy, just like my colleague did with the walk. And just like you and I, we constantly buy things online because it seems so easy and fun. Your behavior, your retreat, and that tension inside actually create the space for someone to really want to change. Mhm. And that's how it's done. If this clip has provided you with value and you would like to see more, this next video has been specially chosen for you based on your viewing habits. I hope you enjoy it, and if you do, please subscribe to the channel so we can continue to bring you fantastic conversations.
