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Welcome to Pixelated episode 122. I'm your host, Will Saddleberg. This week, iPhone Duo Reviews are out and although Abner, Damian, and myself were unsurprisingly left out of Apple's review program, we still have plenty to talk about when it comes to the first real rival to Android foldables. What should Android OEMs learn from the iPhone Duo? And what did Apple fail to catch up to the competition on with its first gen release? All that and more right after this message from our sponsor, Proton. Grab your phone and take a look at your app drawer. You've probably found yourself relying on a lot of the same old apps and services that you've had since the Nexus days. And what suited you best back then might not be the
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more. It's what's best for your current phone, not whatever you were using in 2013. Upgrade to Proton today and save 30% on your annual subscription by heading to proton.me/95google or by clicking the link in the show notes. Thanks to Proton for sponsoring Pixelated. So, Apple's gone ahead. They've decided it's 2019 again. We've got a Duo. We got a folding device from the world's biggest, I guess, smartphone maker in a lot of ways. Um, save Samsung. What are we thinking so far? But we've seen I've seen a little bit of fallout, a little bit of intrigue from reviewers and I guess Apple's dealing with the kind of teething problems we've had with Android foldables since the original Pixel Fold.
What those wide foldables, they might not be for everyone. Yeah, it's it's interesting, right? Because like I think when the Okay, I'm going to sound a little bit like an Apple fanboy here. I'm not trying to. So, let me back up a little bit. Well, but I think there is a bit of built-in expectation around Apple if you are not if you are like tech agnostic in a way, right? If you're just observing the industry from a top- down view of like when Apple comes into product categories that they're late to, they tend to try to bring like a certain level of revolution or like they try to prove why they've waited, right? I'm not saying this always works, but like I think the iPhone is the obvious example
of good waiting. They waited a while to launch, you know, compared to the W uh not Windows Mobile. Thank you. I was like, it's not phone. What's the word I need to switch the Windows Mobile, the Blackberry of the time, right? Like the iPhone was immediately I'm not trying to glaze them too much, but like look, it's the before and after is the iPhone, right? That's the turning point for smartphones. And then you have lesser or like I actually you could argue you can maybe arguably put the Vision Pro on here even though it's a flop. It's it's a flop because it's way too expensive and it has a bunch of stuff nobody needs. But it is like it had some cool ideas that I think people have leaned
into. But like who cares? Then you have other stuff where it's like they waited on the watch. I think all of the stuff they waited on the watch ended up basically not mattering. They got rid of so many of those initial features and and styles and ideas they had on that on that original like series zero watch. So, I was sort of curious. Yeah. For the record, I think sharing your heart rate with other people, your taps, tapping your heart rate with somebody else was a good idea. Uh, I they just killed the walkie-talkie feature like a year ago, I think, and I could not believe how long that lasted. That made it like a decade. It's crazy. Anyway, um so I was curious in the leadup to what was then the iPhone Ultra and then announced
as the duo, like what was Apple gonna bring here that would like it like what side of the fence is this falling on? And the answer is like it just sort of like with a couple of exceptions. I've seen a lot of people say they really like the nano texture feel of the display or whatever, but like largely speaking, this is a foldable. They launched a foldable that seems like at least in the hardware side pretty similar to the current foldables that we've seen for the last couple years.
Like I'm just it's the most like Androidy it seems that this hardware has ever seemed just in the sense that like you can imagine other companies launching this which is not I'm not trying again I'm not trying to glaze Apple but like this was the sentiment that kind of built this company into a cult favorite. I don't see it on the duo. I just get the impression. What do you like that this is going to go through the same teething problems that we all kind of expected that they would? Maybe it's almost like it feels like there was a little bit of that reality distortion field in action where everyone's like, "Oh, Apple is instantly going to fix all these problems with these applications that potentially we had issues with." And I
guess I guess maybe on Android we've had this situation where wide foldables have they had a brief kind of like flame initially. Well I say initially it was a couple years down the line and then we've had the one or 1.1 to1 aspect ratio. So we've kind of flip-flopped between them. And I guess in my experience, I was thinking that maybe Android 12L has kind of helped because obviously there was that at least attempt to make Android on mobile and applications scale better to tablet interfaces. So at least it had some sort of like slack when you could obviously increase the size of displays and UI and stuff. I feel like with this maybe people were expecting Apple to just have an iPad ready replacement.
Yeah, and maybe then maybe it will be in a few months time, but at least at launch, it doesn't necessarily feel like that. Maybe developers have just haven't had enough time, but there's there are some UI elements that I really do not like the look of to be completely honest with you. I think they've done really badly. Um, the dock is just I think it's a bit hopefully they allow people to move it because it definitely favors right-handed people. There's like left-handed people don't exist according to Apple with this device. Well, they don't. But let's get that out of the way first. But so I was super interested in getting the duo, but I kind of missed the pre-order period because it was at 5:00 a.m. and my
annual reminder that Apple's a California company, so they should treat people in the Pacific time better than the rest of the world. Uh well, and uh I think they were sold out. I think they had slipped back into 2027 by like 5:05 a.m. your time anyway after. So I'm not sure. Pretty bad. Pretty quick. So I don't beat yourself up too much. Yeah. But the other thing it's I guess my general take on foldables remains that I don't know when to open it. Uh that's the still the case my pro fold which is like my side phone right now. I use it as a glorified tablet most of the time. Um, I do want to push back on uh what Damian said about the outer screen and what they uh putting the dock on the side for example and the status bar on the side.
I this seems ridiculous, but then again, I'm the person who used the Pixel Fold entirely as a quot as a closed device, but I want the iPhone Duo because that's like putting the status bar on the side and the dock on the side and other UI elements to me seems like the first major change we've had in decades. needs for quote for the smartphone UI. I know to me it seems novel and I really want to try it out and see how it works. Um yeah, I know that's a really minor thing and I'm the only and apparently there reviews that say that the outer screen is way too small. Um especially when you have a keyboard. I think uh fold eight people have also noticed that the
usable screen real estate just might be too little. Yeah, I mean what I tend to do is I sadly I don't have it in my hand right now. It must be on another desk somewhere. Is that um you can resize Gboard anyway. So you can kind of resize it. It almost stays it stays fairly um right fairly I think it changes on the inner and the outer. I can't remember off the top of my head. I don't don't quote me if I'm wrong. If someone out there knows, please correct me. It definitely feels as though you have that flexibility to change it. And I don't know if this is kind of a shout out to a really old keyboard application. I don't
know if you guys ever tried meum back in the day. It was almost like a sliver of keyboard and like that would be the per that would be the perfect solution if people are willing to kind of almost type in a straight line. Um that would be amazing and it was on iOS briefly if I remember correctly but I think it's been completely discontinued. But yeah, I can kind of understand people complaining about it, but at the same time, like you they've they want this small iPad in your pocket, so you're kind of gonna have to compromise somewhere. It seems strange to me that Apple would be the company who has made this compromise. I just felt like they just wouldn't do it. It wouldn't be within their like wheelhouse to do
so. But there is going to be some there are going to be teething problems, aren't there? like it is completely new for them and you can't shoehorn iPad OS into that front screen. You can try I guess with the inner but the outer screen is a different beast entirely because all of the time um they've spent increasing display sizes. This is the first like smaller screen I believe in a little while maybe the iPhone SE 2020 edition was the last one. Was that 16 by now? or the mini the 13 mini but like but it's it's a different aspect ratio so that's what I mean seeing completely but like it's got its own limitations compared to just being like smaller but still tall you know I guess my question it okay so Damian um
when you use the fold eight specifically what is the percentage that you're using the outer versus the inner I probably would say 6040 in favor of the outer screen. It is it has increased. It's increased drastically. Like I do I did find that with the Pixel 10 Pro fold which was the last foldable I used extensively for like the better part of half a year last year. Oh no, it was this year actually. Um time is time circle, isn't it? I think um it's very much that I didn't feel the need to open up the Pixel display because I think the aspect ratio kind of held me back. Yeah. And it's like I'll use the regular phone at the
front because I'm used to it. Whereas with the Fold 8, I find myself opening it to get bigger screen on like Chrome. Chrome in particular. And it almost feels like it is like looking at my laptop because it's a closer was it 4x3 aspect ratio versus like 16 by9 on a on a computer screen or 1610 that definitely feels more I don't know it's not native that's not the way to describe it. It's like more comfortable and when I open a video for instance YouTube straight away I want it full screen it still they're all going to have problems with black borders but it's still less pronounced so it feels more at home. I think what we've garnered from all the reviews is that the duo people are I think I saw one review say
that you use the inner screen 75% of the time and the outer 25 in part because they think that the outer screen is a bit too compromised. Um that to me is fascinating and I feel like that could be a noticeable difference compared to Android. um that it's it's that it to what we were saying earlier that it's an iPad first phone rather. I do think that is fascinating and I do think that brings something new to the conversation. Um, so I am very curious to track that as it goes and like when we go out in the world if we see people unfolding it and yeah that to me that's so true that's going to be very interesting to see how people use it.
Um, but yeah, I think that's one big difference. Um, going into the inner display, I think the matte everybody's going to go matte right on Android within the next year or two. Well, who's Sam? Samsung has moved to matte, correct? On the most recent Well, no, they've kind of tried to do it. I mean, weirdly, this kind of ties into I tried to buy a matte screen protector to see if I could replicate it, see what it'd be like. It I think it was a little bit of false advertising. It isn't quite a matte in a screen protector. It went on flawlessly and it does, don't get me wrong, it dulls from the original. I've peeled it back a bit and looked at it and try and
put another one on because once you peel it, that's it. It's game over. You got to do it again. Um, it's kind of matte. You can get almost one to one matte screen protectors. And I'm trying to find one here in the UK. It's been more difficult than it should be. Uh, that would be kind of good, but at the same time, I'm worried with a matte screen protector. Would it not absorb oils more readily than a like a glossy finish? Would it not be like you smear it and that's it? Apple will let you replace it. Well, if you take it to the store, they'll let you replace it.
I have no idea how it would how it'll actually age with oil. I never had I mean like obviously it's a different it's like not identical but I've been on the foldable should be should have matte inner displays train since the OnePlus open 3 years ago. Like that was the first one I used that had a matte displayed. Like immediately I was like oh this is like night and day. Like this is how they all should be. And I never I don't remember having issues with any like oil buildup on that compared to other foldables, but like I also I didn't use that phone as my daily driver for 3 years. Like it's it's entirely possible that if I had I used it for quite a bit. It was my daily driver for a long time, but um but not long enough that I can
probably concretely say one way or the other. I mean, I'm I'm quite surprised that they've and this is one thing I don't like about it is the overly curved inner display. I think yeah, too this it's almost too rounded at the corners to kind of I guess try and one to one what an iPad is like. And I don't know from a usability perspective that's great. I'm I kind of applaud Samsung going for a full square because it feels to me like the more obvious bigger canvas. Like when things are blown up, I quite like it. It's quite it's like it's it's what I'm used to on a computer. And obviously as we get more applications that start to really advance in the next however many months, I think it's probably going to be better because think about it from this
perspective. in those corners, the very corners of the display, if you cut them away, you're losing pixels where you can potentially put UI elements. I.e. status bar screen curved. That's impression. My air is curved in the top left and right. Is it? Uh well, I mean, I'm looking at my Max Studio display now and it is complete sharp corners. And I think like having things that you can put in there and not like diminish everything else like you can see I mean I'm looking at an image right now of the it has the Wi-Fi uh toggle and a weird hex hexagonal thing and then the time I mean that could be 15 pixels up to the top
right and that doesn't sound like much but it doesn't eat into the main body of the display and also they have that dock there that's I mean is it persistent? I don't know um enough about whether it's persistent dock or not. Uh to answer your question, Abner, uh yes, the pro just like the air the top two corners are curved but the bottom are not. Okay. Is that recent? No idea. Well, like probably since the last map whatever the last Yeah. M. So yeah. Okay. But it's not as pronounced, is it?
It's not like it's not curved like this, is it? where it's almost a 90 degree curve. Like I think No, no, no, no. The phones are always more like I mean this is very iPad e, right? Like I think that's what they're trying to go for with the curves, but like it's it's just going to do you prefer that or not. I mean, there is an advantage. Like, I do think if you're holding the phone vertically, the curves are always going to be I mean, this has always been my minor complaint with Samsung phones, like specifically their boxier ones, like some of their foldables or by minus Linus has been my lap the whole time. Uh their um their boxier foldables or like their boxier ultra designs before they finally kind
of give that some curves is that it can dig into your palm a little bit. And I don't that's probably not going to happen here. So it's I don't know if but I haven't used the full eight so I don't know if that's like a noticeable problem. Well the full eight's so light that it just doesn't so light. Yeah. Um I do wonder about that. I do wonder if why that design decision was chosen but it probably is iPad, isn't it? It's just as simple as we wanted iPad screen. I think the advantage here like really like over I don't see a lot of advantages to this hardware experience over like the current slate of Android foldables and I think anything that is better here like the nanoexture display. I think Android
companies are probably going to kind of rip off like or whatever do their own take on like say however you want to say it. I don't think these companies are going to move back to alter under display cameras. I think Apple's probably going to move away from it at some point and like probably to re-mbbrace Face ID, which I think is already rumored for the next release. So, sorry to early adopters, but you're going to have to make do with that. Um, the advantage is in the software, right? Like, and I don't mean iOS. I mean, I mean app developers are just going to move faster. It has a lot of the same problems that Android foldables have always had right now with weird aspect
ratios and weird displays. I just like I just know from experience that like if this phone sells any kind of numbers, which it will, like it's it's already like they're selling all the units they have, right? Like app developers are going to be pushed. I don't think this is going to be like a vision pro situation. Like I think people are going to buy this phone and companies are going to want to support it and they're going to want to not have people with $2,000 foldables frustrated with their apps and looking to go elsewhere. So like and also like we've seen a couple of this already, but like it seems like it's already attracting like oh like what can I do with this form factor
ideas in a way that like I don't think Android foldables ever have just because there are so many and yet there's so many or there's so few relative customers. just as an example like postures the idea that um that's what it was called in the Android XR where if you put in tent mode the screen adapts if you uh put in laptop mode the screen does something Android had that idea from the very beginning but yeah to me adoption is nothing there's zero adoption of that I feel like the no there's really not a like what the example that comes up to mind is like Google translate where you can or pixel camera where you can put a preview on the outer screen.
It's all Google like YouTube. It's all Google apps. I can't think of an app that isn't like maybe Netflix, but I'm not subscribed to Netflix. Well, I what I don't use Netflix, so I don't know if that's true off. Yeah. And look at the fold eight abandoned the laptop mode tent mode or whatever for this generation or whatever. Exactly. in comparison every um that's what like developers are very excited to adopt. I think my favorite example so far is Flighty. Um the airline the flight tracking app if you put it in tent mode uh with the app open it like if you're like you put on the desk in the tabletop thing in front of your in your seat like it shows a tracking thing that's
that has really not happened on Android X sorry on Android foldables and that is woof I do wonder if that's been factored into the design actually because I was about to critique one of the design elements. I do not think that the volume buttons on that side make a lot of sense to me and then the power button on one side but if you're going to use tent mode it kind of makes sense. Yeah, in that respect and I guess they're trying to go for par with an iPad again. But I think there's definitely a lot of intrigue around it. Two of my friends um are have pre-orders in place. They have set to pick them up on Friday. So there
is clearly like I feel like if you're the kind of person who isn't willing to um experiment I guess is the only way I can describe it with an Android foldable you're probably going to be you probably going to feel like oh I'm in safer hands with Apple but it's in interesting to see that these early reviews are pointing out all the flaws that we would as anyone who's using Android affordable would just point out straight away whereas like there definitely seems to be some almost the way that Apple's managed to market it is very different I know they showed off some flashy demos, but at the end of the day, your the cool animation when you open it that has some sort of like gorsium blur or whatever it is or
frosted glass, whatever you want to call it, that doesn't make up for the fact that some of the applications are optimized for in a display like I'm sorry to be to bear bad news for anyone who was looking at the Duo, probably not given we talk mostly about Android and Google products, but there definitely is all the same problems that were apparent to was from the sidelines. Hey gang, if you're enjoying Pixelated, don't forget to sign up for 95 Google Pro for ad free episodes and to gain access to our weekly bonus show, Pixelated Pro. This week, we dive back into our thoughts on Google Books after
yet another week of use, discuss the current not so good state of Google search, and try to pick out which dead Google products we actually think deserved to die. Sign up today for just $5 per month or about $1 per episode at 9to5google.com/pro. I mean this just I think this is the definitive pro this is the final piece of proof if we didn't already know this for sure that like foldables are not for everybody. Like I don't really think foldables are for me. Like that is the conclusion I've come to. It's just not like a form factor that I think fits my life well. I don't get a lot of use out of the big screen compared to just using a larger phone or carrying a phone and a tablet with the extra weight if I have a backpack. Like I
I mean to inter to interject on that, I think you're 100% correct, but to me a foldable has become a sidearm. Like it's my secondary device. Like I think one thing I've noticed it's your tablet replacement in a way basically. Yeah. It goes in my it goes in my side bag or my pocket and I'm like I'm going to watch a movie on this flight or it that's what it is. At the same time, there are going to be a lot of people who probably end up spending two grand on this thing expecting par maybe not expecting parity but expecting experience similar to what they've had with an iPhone and might come away quite disappointed which is again it happens doesn't it? I know many people have done foldables and then go back to a normal phone.
Yeah, that's I'm very curious what the return rate ends up being um ends up being. some news cycle that's like did you know that like 20% of iPhone duo owners are returning them and then you'll never hear about it again because it's not that said that the interesting thing and I think Damian can speak to it when you open the fold 8 when you open the Duo and then you rotate it uh 90° so it's like a giant phone screen I feel like Apple's really reading into that scenario in which case you have just a large like a regular phone screen but much larger at 7.7 plus in almost 8 in. I'm cur again like once this is in the out in the world I'm curious to see if people are walking around in the world with like just a
mini tablet and whether that becomes acceptable pretty quickly. Yeah. I mean at the very least they'll have good Nintendo DS emulators and they'll have good fun doing that. Right. That's the main thing. Like, but like, but like that's a like, oh my god, anybody who buys this for $2,000 to play DS games on it is an idiot because you can go buy a Thor for a quarter of the price. You buy one of my friends. I literally called up one of my friends there. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Buy his first name Kane. It's for you. You're an idiot.
I'm not an idiot. But also, don't buy the duo just to emulate DS games. It's like it's not going to be that good of an experience. I have played DS games on a foldable. It's you're not going to want the virtual buttons. You're going to want real buttons. And so if that's really if like DS and 3DS emulation is really what you want, like go there's there's it's not just the Thor now. There's like three or four different options you can pick from that are all about 500 bucks. That is money better spent. And I think that's sort of my issue with foldables like in general is that they tend to try to do a bunch of they want to It's a device. It's a form factor that pours like 14 different ideas into
one thing. And it's it's like it's a phone. It's an iPad or a tablet. Sorry, we're talking so much about the iPad and the duo. I just slipped. It's a tablet. It's kind of a laptop if you think about it the right way. And if you're Michael Fischer, you bring a keyboard everywhere. Um it's it's you know, it's a gaming handheld because think of all the games you can play on. And I know that's sort of a phone, too, but like it's it's different, right? It's it's it's a different form factor with its own sacrifices and downsides. And at the end of the day, like I just think I'm more into the idea of having like not trying to fit a hundred different things into
this foldable with some serious like downsides. It's like you're it's not like a like especially like we have not talked about the fact that like people seem to be like the main camera's fine that I missed the telephoto like story of a lot of foldables lives. Um, you know, when John Gruber isn't over at Daring Fireball scolding people for not using Twitterx enough, uh, he sometimes blogs about Apple. And, uh, his conclusion uh, I did not read his entire review because it's it's just too long for a phone I don't care much about, but um, his thing was that like he it does not seem like he's sticking with the duo. And to be honest with you, if I had bet anybody would be singing the praises
of foldable stuff that we've had for years and then just pretending he never complained about it, I thought it would be Gruber. But no, he's kind of like, I've had fun. His final line is, I've had fun trying the duo for a week, but it feels like a really nice polished prototype and not a finished product I want to buy and carry. And I that's that's surprisingly damning for Apple from someone like Gruber. Um, I think people are going to pick this up who have maybe seen their Android friends with foldables and have been a little secretly jealous of it and then are going to realize all of the all of the constraints and downsides to this form factor that are inherent and that do not affect everybody the same way, but are there
I get the impression though that there's some lessons that I thought they would learn from the Air. Like the Air now to me seems like a more enticing product and I might eventually pick one up at some point in the future. Very good. The Air felt like the to me it felt like okay it's one half of the foldable that Apple are going to do. I mean at the time I don't think I read enough about what leaks were going to be and what the size was going to be. But it's almost like it looks a lot it looks a bit thicker. It is thicker, isn't it? It's a heavy piece of technology. So it's almost like you can't I don't know.
I think the idea of that foldables consolidate things is probably the biggest problem for that foldables face, isn't it? Oh, I'm consolidating all these things. The pro and the con. Like it is it's it's it's a double-edged sword, right? Where it's it's just like it is either going to be the thing that you're like, "Oh, this is my forever device." Right? Like you will just be like, "I can't go back from a foldable. This has revolutionized my mobile working life." Or you'll be like, I mean, there's a couple different ways you can end up not liking it. You can be like, "This is actually overkill for how I use my phone. I'm frustrated
with some of the software issues. Um, the hardware is heavy and lacks some of the stuff that I would get on." And again, I'm staying in the Apple ecosystem, an iPhone 18 Pro or whatever other flagship that those downsides exist and I hope Apple people don't accidentally waste $2,000 learning a lesson that Android people have been learning this entire decade. I don't know. I yes, I agree with um I think the software gets better. I think the weight thing is like a 50% concern, but I kind of don't want to bet against people wanting a larger screen. I'm personally in the minority of like not knowing what to do with the bigger screen because I'm not that big of a video watcher. Um, but at the same time, like what is people's tolerance for having a
bigger screen? Like I almost say don't don't bet against people liking bigger screens. Yeah, it definitely is the big I mean it's the big screen. It is the big screen can't even say it big screen conundrum because I think a lot of people are looking at it and I mentioned consolidation a moment ago. I think there are a lot of people who don't have a laptop. They don't have a tablet and they definitely don't have a tablet. against the laptop. I think uh Google book driver aside, I think that there is um the XPS is really great. I finally bought one. I finally got one.
Yeah, I know you got a good deal and we'll talk about that in the pro a little bit more. I want to learn how you got that deal. But uh yeah, it I mean I know a lot of people who don't act don't have a computer. They do all the purchases on a 100% they're gonna find on a device and like I'm so millennial coded and millennial that like I have to go to the big computer. I have to go to the laptop to make a big purchase. Like I can understand someone who's a bit like that who wants to have I mean this is so capitalism pill as well is that you can compare things on two screens now. Like you don't have to have I mean Apple doesn't have never had split screen on the iPhone like this has got split screen. This is the first
iPhone with split screen. So, at least you get that, which is cool. Um, I kind I'm kind of hopeful in the back of my mind, I'm kind of hopeful that this does benefit Android in the long term because Apple throwing things at the wall is good because we all know that a lot of Android uh companies don't necessarily in the next few years have as much R&D funding available to them for projects. So, if they find out what Apple does well, then it might benefit us from a hardware perspective. software I'm very excited by because it just means that there are more paradigms and with Gen AI and AI programming tools becoming ubiquitous in professional environments, I do hope that there is a kind of a wider and faster adoption of
applications getting over that divide. there is less of an excuse to do so now to wait because this isn't unique and there are be going to be Android developers who are maybe looking at the Duo and thinking well I'll put my foldable compatible application on iOS and then there's iOS developers who are like huh it doesn't take me much now to port it over to Android there's no real reason not to do so yeah I think I think it could be a nice two-way street and I'm hopeful that we get some good stuff off the back of it do we get do we just end up seeing a load of Um, iPhone Duo hardware clones. I know Xiaomi did something similar about two weeks before in China and it's kind of like, yeah, come on guys.
I mean, yeah, it's this is the Apple just the Apple track at this point. It's it's literally just Google. Like it's just Google. Like I to varying degrees everybody else like I don't think Samsung is like one for one, but like Samsung launched the full date cuz this was rumored. Like we this is not it's the same reason they tried to do the Edge. Like we don't have to pretend we don't have to play for cover for Samsung. Um the only thing I want to throw in real quick, I'm sorry to back up a little bit, but I just wanted to say on the big screen thing, the one thing that I want to push back on, you're also buying a small screen, right? And that was sort of Gruber's review is that he didn't like the outer
screen. He found it. And like we've talked about some of the shortcoms, but like short uh excuse me, shortcomings, but uh that's the only thing I can see happening is that it's like yes, you get the largest iPhone screen you can get, but you also get the smallest. And you're going to have to kind of use both just because of how like you can't put it in your pocket without closing it. And you are going to want to respond to a text message without opening it. Like it's going to happen. Yeah. Well, again, I think to me like it's if the duo if the sorry, the fold 8 is 6040 out the screen and the iPhone gets into that 2575. I'm very I'm so curious what the world looks like with people just holding up mini tablets
all the time and if that becomes we'll see it in Vegas. Like that's going to be and I'm going to make fun of them. Like I'm going to make fun of them the same way I would make fun of someone holding up an iPad to take photos. Like close the phone. You don't need it open. Those people have won the They might have won the culture, but that doesn't mean I'm not above them. Yeah, I'm tempted. I'm tempted to start doing it now. Just get a Tab S10 or whatever it is. The previous generation just Well, it happens when you It only works with a mini tab. That Sorry, ABNA. He's just That is a really horrible dig. That is really,
really nasty. That's really nasty. I'm not saying that yet. As I was saying it, I said it happens once you hit 40. I was way off that yet. Way off. I was like, is this too mean? And I was like, nah, I'm going to say it. Way off yet. Yeah. I mean, there are times when there is a prevailing product that or a product that prevails. It's probably a better way to say it is. And this kind of is an interesting one because I do wonder if Apple experiment with this form pack. They will have done, won't they? But I wonder if it gets out there into the wild and they suddenly say, do you know what? We're going to experiment
with stuff. And I think that's going to be good for everyone. Uh it is crazy to think that there are people who are going to their first foldable is going to be this one and they've had the opportunity. But I guess it's um we'll know in a few weeks time like we'll know what the public can sense. I'm more intrigued by that than it is generally than reviewers. Well, cuz a lot of the reviewers who have used this phone have used other foldables and that's not their fault, but it does mean that like they have a frame of reference, right? Right. Like if I bought this, like my frame of reference would be completely different than most of the other people in my life who have never ever had a foldable in their pocket. Like they like
most of the people I know who have ever touched a foldable, they did so cuz I handed mine to them, right? Like that's their that's been their demo. So like I really am uh curious to see how this lands with general people because um you know while it will still be mostly enthusiasts buying it there are there is a certain select group. I don't think they exist though in I think the term enthusiast doesn't really apply to Apple as much. They just it's a brand. It's a lifestyle, isn't it? It's a lifestyle brand as opposed to a tech. There are Apple enthusiasts, but they're also like who are tech enthusiasts, but there's also Apple enthusiasts who are just like, "Well, no, I just want the newest iPhone, right?" Like, and that I
agree with you, that doesn't really exist. There's cuz like I feel like Samsung enthusiasts would probably be the closest on the Android side, but those guys are like tech guys and that's not Apple has that fashionesque brand going on like I'm not again God. It's it's so hard to talk about Apple and the culture without sounding like you're glazing them. But like truly like they do. Let me put it this way. All the CEOs are going to buy this phone. They're going to see that the apps suck and force the teams to update. That is what's going to happen and that is why the app support is going to win out.
Absolutely. Sadly. Yeah, that's true. That is true. I mean, I don't see any comp here. I don't The only USB is that it's it has an Apple badge on it and runs. The USP is that it's an iPhone. That's that's simple as that. Literally. I mean, I'm still I'm I'm still excited for what this does for the rest of the industry. It might give a shake up that we kind of have wanted for a while. I Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the next 12 months of how every single phone now shifts to this new form factor, this wider form factor. And I know that's a real heartache.
A real big heartache. Did Android OEMs bro it in the intervening seven years? Is it going to take the duo to really boost this? No. I This sort of circles back to what I was saying at the start, but like it would be one thing if we saw the duo and we were like, "Oh my god, how did Android OEM X and Y and Z, but it's like no, they pretty much thought of everything on this." And like the stuff people think is nice is some software tweaks, which like okay, you could argue, sure, but like I'm not going to I don't know. It's not worth it. And then like the nano texture finish which is like not like which we've seen other companies do similar but not identical things. So like I'm not I don't want to
give Apple too much credit there either even though people are saying it feels great but like I've seen you know and like oh my god it was so annoying when this thing was launched and everybody was like everybody got hands-on was like no there's no crease. Like even compared to other brand new Android f like foldables there's no crease. Oh my god they did it. And it's like comes out today. It's like, yeah, it turns out if you fold it 10,000 times, you see the crease like on any other foldable. Oh my god, who could have seen this coming? So like, no, Apple didn't like disprove physics. Like it's a foldable. It this feels very much in line with like other 25 26 foldables like that. That's
this is this current generation starting last year and into this year. It sits right alongside like what Samsung and Google have done. I mean, in my eyes, it definitely puts the ball in Samsung's court again because obviously we know that they have that expertise with um with display manufacturer across the board. Uh regular displays, foldable displays. They've been doing this for a long time now. Yeah. And they do it arguably better than anybody else. Um I think it's kind of reiterated to me how elegant this the ZFold 8 is because yeah, it is wafer thin.
Um yeah, that's the one I want. Yeah, it's wafer thin. It's got more playful colors. Like it feels fun. It feels fresh. It feels friendly. And then at the same time, and this is weird. This is it is weird that I'm even thinking this and I'm about to say it is that One UI is very well tailored for you to customize it to fit this form factor. Whereas iOS is quite by its very nature not as flexible. It isn't able to bend in the same ways that Android can ever can unless they make some changes. Like I do think that this puts Android foldables in a really strong position especially if we've talked about it for what nearly 2 years now I've pixelated that if we start to get this true Gen AI powered OS
that you can effectively tailor it how you want we they there could be a gap going here and we've got to remember that Apple is they are whether they agree or not they'll sell more in units but they are still playing catchup everywhere else like the market is heavily in favor of Android still in terms of the foldables available to them. I like the fact that there is another player in the space because competition is good. It keeps you owned. It keeps you sharp. And while I do lament Samsung's inability to kind of like lead from the front, at least they got the fold out fold 8 out ahead of them. And yeah, it is fantastic. It is the freshest Android phone I've used this year, period. And I would be I would have been
worried if they had done a S25 Edgeesque like rushed thin product whereas they've made something fantastic because they know how to make good foldables. So yeah, they have the fundamentals in place. Apple have are going to find they're going to find out pretty darn soon that like it isn't all amazing from the get-go. Yeah, sales figures wise, yeah, of course they'll they'll treat as a success, but I think very quickly there's going to be a teeding period. And have they had that for a while? I don't think I think maybe with the with the iPad originally when they had issues with applications scaling for the UI they're going to they're having that now what 10 years 12 years later I
think I could be wrong my calendar my timings could be completely I'm not I don't want to tell I don't want to hurt your I 15 years okay 16 years okay so 16 years they had to resolve the iPad problem it took them four probably I think to get every app working on the form factor but I think it luckily they with all top tier developers using these AI tools. I think they might save the bacon a little bit. I do wonder why now. Why did they wait to now? It the hardware has been pretty darn solid for a while. Like why did it take this long? That's that's what I'm most interested in to hear. I don't think they'll ever come out and say explicitly, but I guess the next six months are going to be a wild ride for
for foldables. And I'm I'm I'm all here for it. Definitely. Yeah. Anything else to say, guys? I guess the one thing I want to say is we've talked a lot about Samsung. I For me, it's Google that I want to see. Yeah. They'll do. I just really want to What do you think? What do you guys I just I find the current design of their foldable pretty. Okay. Look, like the outer screen there is a big advantage to keeping it in that standard smartphone size and shape. Like obviously the way people are talking about the fold now the duo it really comes down to like do you want
this to be primarily like a front screen or in an inner screen device and there's no right answer to that and what I'm learning here is that there's no real way to bridge the two without one like you're going to have to sort of sacrifice the experience on one or the other in a way like at least make some uh compromises right if sacrifice is too strong of a word um I don't need Google necessarily to switch to a wider design, although I would like to see that because I think that's sort of where the market's going. Um, and I just think it feels a little bit better to have this be more of an entertainment, especially on Google, like an entertainment device. Like Google's like foldable Pixels do not
really feel made for like getting work done in the same way that like the Fold 8 Ultra wants you to think you can get work done on it. And it's certainly easier than on the Pixel. So, I just want to see them bring some new ideas to the table. Maybe inspired by it doesn't need to be them looking at the duo and being like, "Okay, let's do our take on X," but maybe more so being like, "Let's let's like blaze our own path on this the way that like we've we've seen them do on other devices." I hope that's what we see with the 12 Pro Fold. But at the same time with RAM constraints and with Google having really slowowned down how they're iterating on their device designs like I don't totally expect to see that. But that's what
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for. I feel like that's a sensible decision though, isn't it? Apple took the slow route. I think allow allowing for Samsung really forging ahead. I think they probably will. I think the duo is almost going to make them put the pedal to the metal as it were with the trifold. I just think the trifold now has such a space. Don't get me wrong, it has its own drawbacks, but I think if they go out really strong with this trifold system, I think that feels the most science fictiony of all of the I guess current crop. It's limited, wasn't it? Zero interest. Do you think it works?
I have zero interest in trifold. I still want to final. Yeah, that's what I want. I like I don't understand. Well, for me it's like okay, so I'm sitting here telling you guys that I don't see a lot of use case out of a foldable phone that transforms from a phone into a small tablet. But I definitely I could sit down and think of a lot of ways I could take a small tablet into a big tablet and find a lot of like good use out of that. No one's done it for the mo like that I can think of. Tell me if I'm missing an obvious one. There might be there might have been a prototype or a concept device, but like we have not seen this launch where I it's an 8 in
screen on the outside and a 15-inch screen on the inside. And that's like I really do think I could find more use cases for that, especially Oh man. Especially if it had like display input where like you could use it as a second monitor for your laptop. I'm dreaming here. But that's the sort of thing I would spend $2,000 on. The Surface Neo sends it to gods from hell. Yeah. Well, I definitely feel as though Yeah, I definitely feel as though aspect ratio is the biggest consideration and constraint that's that's causing this. I think that like I say, the trifold to me
feels the most futuristic. And I mean, I don't think I think it's going to be a couple of years before Google does the whole thing of potentially doing a wide foldable again. And I do wonder how they would remarket it. I think it would very much be like they could go on the Pixel Fold classic route and that would be kind of cool. Well, they did a whole ad campaign for the headphone jack on the Pixel One and then took it away on the Pixel 2 and didn't say anything about it. So, like I think they'll just pretend they never did the first Pixel Fold. Hey, the future is looking Well, it's looking foldable, isn't it? Uh I am excited. We're going to go talk out some random things outside of foldables.
Everything else over on the Pro Tier. Come join us. It's always good fun. And uh yeah, I think as a as an Apple heavy episode, I think it does relate more to Android than probably a regular Oh, for sure. Apple launch. So yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what happens. I think if you have any thoughts of your own, let us know. I'm really intrigued to see what the general public thinks. I think a lot of Android fans have been quite negative. I'm kind of more like this is just going to be beneficial to us. So yeah, let me know what you think down in the comments section below. And uh I'll speak to you soon.
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