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Italically your [sing] new family. Good morning Stefano, how are you? Good morning Luca. Good morning. We're here again to talk about a topic we're passionate about, a very personal one because we're both from a country called Italy, right? Exact. So our native language is Italian. What kind of language? is it Italian or what do they say about the Italian language in general, Luca? Well, first of all from my personal experience, with all the foreigners I 've met, it's said, in my opinion, that Italian is a very musical language, one of the things that is said most often is, ah, I like the way Italian sounds, right?
A class. It's a class. Because it is a language linked to culture, art, and cuisine. This is another stereotype that not only has a grain of truth, but it is true, in the sense that Italian is a language, it is the language of culture, it is the language of music, it is the language of art. I like to think, and I often say it, that Italians love beauty, efficiency perhaps a little less; it's not really part of our character, at least when it comes to Rome and some parts of Italy. I know that in Milan perhaps there is this concept of efficiency, yes, let's say it coincides with that of beauty, but we will talk about the differences between efficiency and beauty in Milan.
Exact. I have a feeling we'll return to this topic in a later episode, ad lib, as they say in Rome. So, getting back to the topic, eh another, in my opinion, another, let's say, thing that is often said is that Italian is a relatively easy language, right? I've heard it said very often, "Ah, the pronunciation is easy, the spelling is easy." However, and then I'll let you speak, I would say that like all languages, Italian has a certain complexity because it actually has a complex socio-cultural and linguistic entity that varies over time and space and therefore retains its complexity. So there is no truly simple or easy language to learn, but there is a complex castle that is discovered piece by piece, room by
room. Italian, while having its easy aspects, also has its more complicated ones, but I would say to start with the perhaps easier ones. Stefano, what do you think? Yes, definitely. Well, why is Italian a relatively easy language? So, as often happens, we first need to see where we're starting from, because obviously it also depends on who we are, right? But in general for speakers of English, for example, one of the easiest aspects is the fact that it's a Romance language, its proximity to other Romance languages allows you to start with considerable pre-knowledge and therefore have a head start if, for example, you already know some French, if you know some Spanish,
Portuguese, but also simply if you know English, because we know that a large part of the English vocabulary has roots in Latin, so there are still a lot of cognates, no, these words that, uh, start from the same roots, you know, and therefore many words are recognizable, so at least in terms of vocabulary you can start with a bit of an advantage. The second point is that there is a spelling, no, which is rather phonetic. What does this mean in simple terms? It means that in essence we usually say what we write or, if we want, we write what we feel. So the written word eh corresponds quite clearly to the spoken word eh. And finally, one thing I'd like to say, and allow myself to generalize, is that I find Italians to be very
tolerant and willing, no, to make-let's say-to welcome those who make the effort to learn our language, also because they usually don't want to speak languages they don't know much about. For example, many people don't want to speak English because they don't feel confident enough, and if a foreigner makes this effort to speak Italian, Italians are usually very understanding and happy to be able to speak our language. Absolutely yes, I totally agree with everything once again and um and it's true that there are some really easy aspects. Well, however, as you rightly pointed out, it also depends on your native language, because for a Spanish person learning Italian is
easier than for a Japanese person, for example, right? So this is also important to point out. However, we will focus in particular, but not only, on some, let's say, some difficulties, some aspects that English speakers in particular find particularly difficult when it comes to learning Italian. I'll give you a few examples, so we can discuss them for all the English speakers here, but we have a global audience, so Spanish, Greek, Chinese, Japanese, Australian people will also hear us, and so on and so forth. The more you have, the more you put. Right, right. I have doubts. Sometimes I have Hamlet-like doubts about my own mother tongue when speaking about Italian. So, [clears throat] I
think one of the most complicated aspects, surprisingly for us, because for us it's obvious, but for them it's not, is the past perfect and the imperfect, right? So the past perfect, eh, for example, I played yesterday, I played chess, eh, or I was playing chess, are two slightly different things. I played chess, it happened once in the past, so yesterday I played chess with Stefano, while yesterday I played chess with Stefano describes the action. So they are, let's say, two different objectives. One is to say the event happened, the other is to say the event was in progress, right? In fier this expression that we sometimes use for Latinisms, we could do a series on Latinisms in Italian. Among other things, in fieri means
that it was evolving, it was happening and we usually use the imperfect tense also in association with other actions. For example, while I was playing chess with Stefano, the fire alarm suddenly went off, right? I'll give you an example, it's a perfect example for me. So this is an important aspect. Another couple of grammatical aspects that foreigners generally find complex are avere and essere as modal verbs. Modal verb simply means that in this case the words "avere" and "essere" accompany a past participle, for example. No, I ate. The modal verb is ho mangiato, therefore to have eaten. I ate an apple. However, if you say for example I became an actor, that is a transformation verb, so in this case you use the modal verb essere.
Reflexive verbs also want the verb pretendono, they require the verb essere, right? So, um, that 's also important to point out. I washed myself, didn't I? Or I wash myself, you wash yourself, he washes himself, we wash ourselves, etc. And another aspect that I would say is quite important and complicated is that of combined pronouns, so melo, telo, cene, for example, to say there are a lot of them. In this case, eh there are, there is a pronoun. The pronoun is always used to replace something you've already said before, so there are a lot of them. It means that someone, maybe you yourself or someone else, said for example: "Ah, there are a lot of figs." Yes, there are a lot of them, right? And this dinner, apple,
cloth are, let's say, depending on the context, more or less difficult for those who are not used to it. These are, let's say, three things that come to mind about the Nail, right? Now Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Also because some even change shape when they combine, right? In other things, the normal pronoun would be mi, but when I want to say eh I want to add lo it becomes lo, not mi lo. So they are all complexities that at levels, to be honest, high intermediate levels and you really start to grind them out, it starts to become difficult, ah difficult to use them. I would add two more, just for typical Italian gesture, so for those who watch and don't just listen there are also these
speeches, these podcasts with the usual gestures etc. For those of you listening, I've been waving my hand, so to speak, there's so much we can say on this topic. Well, basically always, always on the subject of little words, just like combined pronouns, well, all those grammatical aspects that have to do with gender and number come to mind, right? Which change the form of nouns, adjectives, but also verbs. Well, these things happen in other Romance languages too, not all of them. Eh, however eh however it is quite mh it is quite common in the neo-Latin languages and that is simply feminine, masculine, eh singular and plural. So bello belli, eh bella belle, to give a
very simple example, eh or eh I ate a pizza, I ate it. Even the verb eh is transformed because the thing I ate is feminine. This thing, we have to admit, Luca, for our friends who are learning Italian can be really challenging, arduous, arduous, very arduous. Not to mention the infamous subjunctive. Subjunctive, the conyllabic, well-syllabified, subjunctive mood, the subjunctive mood that makes everyone tremble. Um, the subjunctive mood is very complex to explain, but it's simply a verb form, right? A form that verbs take in certain situations. I like to describe it like this. um it doesn't have so much to do with meaning as it does with form. Okay? So something can be I can say that something is beautiful, but if
I start the sentence by saying I think I can't say I think it's beautiful, I simply have to transform this is into sia. Is there a real reason for this? Actually, no. Actually there is no real reason, it's pure form. But correct Italian would require us to speak like this Exact. Eh, [snorting] but look, I feel like I should immediately give a little advice regarding the subjunctive. Guys, don't start studying the subjunctive too early or trying to learn all the situations in which the subjunctive is used because it's not
worth it, it doesn't carry any meaning, it's just form. So let's focus at the beginning on the tools that allow you to express your ideas. Then to the form, right? We can think about the subtleties later. This is my two cents, as they say in English. As they say in English. Beautiful. I liked it very much, I wrote it down while you were speaking, which has no meaning, but is pure form. In fact, eh, we also come back to the discussion we had in podcast number three, I think, about mistakes. Very often you move forward more quickly when you talk like Tarzan, rather than trying to say things perfectly. So, for example, if you say I think it's beautiful, the person has understood exactly what you meant, right? then he can
correct you on the form, but once again you are focusing on the message. If you find, unfortunately, a teacher who is too strict, he will start to bother you about the form, focusing too much on the form, while a smart teacher will congratulate you for having said and communicated the message and will explain to you how you can then adjust the form. But in the meantime you have managed to take the most important step, which is to communicate a marginal note. Well done, well done. And ultimately, so speaking as a third point on an example, a concrete example of, let's say, the aspects that we have understood from a native speaker's point of view, because we are
Italian speakers of three languages and very often, or rather not very often, always native Italian speakers, unless they are teachers or have undergone a particular path of self-awareness of their own mother tongue which usually doesn't happen, or perhaps they are teachers within a particular pedagogical path, are not aware of the way in which they use their mother tongue simply because they learned it as a mother tongue, therefore in a completely subconscious or unconscious way. And what does this mean? Well, it means that sometimes when foreigners ask you a question out of the blue, no, and say, "But why do we say it that way?" You're left speechless because you don't know exactly how to explain why, why some things are that way.
In particular, I'll tell you a nice story. I was having breakfast, as always happens at my house, with my roommate Nicos, who comes from Tessaroniki, that is, Saronicco in Italian, a city in northern Greece, and we alternate between Greek and Italian. When he speaks Italian, I have to say that at an intermediate level, let's say, every now and then he asks me almost philosophical questions. In particular, we got stuck, we got bogged down, eh during eh breakfast, on the verb andare a leggere, because yesterday he was telling me eh esco, eh I went out and I went out, then we focused on sono fuori and then he said to me, "But like a child, right?
He asks himself with great interest, but also with great amazement, " Why is that?" He says to me, "But why do I say 'esco', but you go out, we go out?" And I thought about it for a moment, I said, "Well, actually the verb is ' uscire', but I go out, you go out, and he goes out, okay, then we go out, usci." They go out, we go back to the vowel and the vowel again, and I didn't know what to answer him. An important thing to point out is that 'uscire' is an irregular verb. Now the interesting thing is that in all the languages of the world there is a correspondence between regular verbs and how much they are used, that is, their frequency. Thank God, irregular verbs are almost all the most
used ones, and therefore they are learned through pure exposure, in the sense that sometimes you listen, sometimes you repeat, etc. These themes, verbs, verbal themes, etc., are very recurring and you end up learning them automatically, without having to put in too much effort, trying to understand how it works. Here, I wanted to Just mentioning this episode of going out, there are hundreds, but Nicos brought me back to the point, the perspective of a foreigner learning my native language. Yes, which, look, is one of the most interesting things about my work teaching Italian in recent years has been, really, being encouraged by students' questions to understand my own language even better
, therefore to understand all, all the functions of the little word c. Luca, do you know how many functions the word C has? Yeah, you've racked your brains. I racked my brains to try to really make a list of situations in which ci has a different function. I found five fundamental ones. The same thing can be said for the little word ne, which is another pronoun that can be used in three different fundamental ways. In short, all these words that are, um, are multifunctional. And then I understood something, very often, and I notice this too when I study foreign languages, very often the words that cause us the
most confusion are the words that are equal, that is, they are a single word that can have multiple meanings, that can have multiple functions. We see it pop up in so many different contexts and we ask ourselves, "But what is the word C doing there? what is he It's a it 's an aspect that eh is comparable to all languages. Well, even the verb to get, for example, in English drives many Italian English students crazy because it seems to be able to be used in any situation, but what does to get really mean? It has so many meanings, etc. And another interesting thing is the use of the definite article. Why do they say, they asked me one day, Stefano, why do they say that lady has flowers on the balcony and she doesn't have
flowers on the balcony or she has flowers on the balcony? Why the flowers? Why the flowers, that is, where does this specificity of the article come from? And I thought about it, and I thought about it, and I thought about it. I'll throw out a theory of mine, eh, I'll throw out another expression. It could be that they are the flowers and then implicitly the flowers that you usually have on the balcony. For example, he has the dog instead of he has a dog. Why do we say he has the dog? And because the dog, that pet that we usually have, could be a cultural aspect that explains this strange grammatical thing. Who knows? We'll only find out by living, as the song says.
Well, I don't remember who this song was by, we'll only find out as we go along, but it's an Italian song. Type it on Google and you will definitely get the answer. I think she is an author. These are the things that navigate in the brain but which are not the Baptists we will only discover by living. Just living. I'd say it was a first goal. Guys, let's make a singing podcast one day. Here you are. [snorting] Okay, in conclusion Luca let's try to close this episode. It goes without saying that Italian is a relatively easy language at first, a bit challenging in the middle when subjunctive and other more difficult things start to emerge, but I think we can agree on one thing, and that is that in the end, when you really master it,
it becomes a real symphony, eh, an immense pleasure. like talking about everything, about food, about culture with friends. And exactly. That's the beauty of using a language, the beauty of living, let's say, eh, the Italian reality in Italian. Thank you. We conclude with this beautiful note from Stefano, artistic and poetic. So, to sum up, we've essentially talked about three aspects today: that is, the fact that Italian is considered an easy language, it has some easy aspects, but it is a complex language and, like any complex entity, it also has its more complicated, more difficult aspects. Then we talked about, well, I have on my side, I talked about three classic difficult aspects of Italian that are encountered,
that students encounter, such as the imperfect, the past perfect, and various other things. Stefano shared his perspective as an Italian teacher and a polyglot, and ultimately we shared the fact that, being native speakers, we have a native speaker's perspective. However, we also acquired a privileged perspective because we both taught Italian to foreigners for years, and we were asked questions by adults who were children, adults who became children again, on aspects of Italian that we took for granted and that are no longer taken for granted, and that we share. We shared these with you, our wonderful audience, and with this I conclude.
Thanks Luca, I really liked the image of the adult child. Adult becomes child again. It's gorgeous. Thank you. So, you adults who have become children again, have a good day. Thank you so much and see you in the next episode with the legendary Stefano. See you soon with Luca. Bye
