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Laila Cunningham, good morning. Um Reform UK's mayoral candidate in London. Uh we have to be careful talking about elections, we know that. Let's talk about yesterday. So many people have responded more than I've ever seen in my life to the fact that Nigel Farage, he was on here an hour and a half ago, took the fight really to almost 650 MPs who held him down and screamed abuse because he dared to say there's two-tier policing. Um Henry Novak's death, you're a mother, I'm a father, was horrific. And whether it's incompetence as well as the ideology that's created fear, how did you feel when you saw that? It was actually unbearable to watch because as I said, my kids are that age and I know how vulnerable they are.
You know, they act all men and macho, but they're so vulnerable. 17. He was killed on Monday, I think. My son's 19 and 16 and he's super vulnerable. And I can imagine when you heard the police arrived, he must have thought, "Oh, they're here. They're going to protect me. You know, I'm I'm safe." And they didn't. And Somebody said something yesterday that I thought was awful, but I completely want to repeat it because it was right. He wasn't given his last rites in handcuffs, he was given his rights and he died. I mean, just imagine how appalling that is. Where did you stand on Nigel Farage? Um he said pure cold rage. That's exactly how I felt. But everybody else said that it cited
division and he was responsible for what happened to that man. it I find it remarkable that the past 24 hours, and I was on Newsnight where they misquoted him, is talking about what Nigel said as opposed to what actually happened. What caused anyone to protest or go out and listen, I don't condone any violence. I don't condone any violence against the police. Nope. Peaceful protest is fine. It's watching that video. It made me want to go out to the streets. I was like, "What is going on here? Why is this happening?" And not the first time. We saw it with Sara Sharif where social
services didn't want to ask why she's the only person in the family whose head is, you know, has a head covering, whereas the adults didn't. This is the young girl in Woking, and I know this because it was 100 yd from a mate of mine's house. Yeah. And the parents carelessly beat her on the way to Pakistan when they were arrested. They're now serving life. And she had a head covering to cover the bruises. And the adults, the two ladies, the two women criminals in the family did not. And social services didn't want to ask why. So, they didn't want to appear Islamophobic.
Was it Kalacaine or was it Ruda Bacano who wasn't who was released from a mental institution because the site It was It was Kalacaine because the psychiatric nurses thought to keep him in was racist. It's ridiculous. No, no, you But you saw it with the grooming gangs. And you saw it with Salman Abedi. You know, he didn't want to men- the security guy didn't want to say anything cuz he thought it would be Islamophobic. I speak to people from Prevent, and they say that when people refer people for Islamic Islamist ideas, they say propensity to violence. They won't name the issue. And every time we try and name the issue, or Nigel names the issue, we're spreading hate, we're divisive. If we
don't name the issue, if we don't ask why a dying boy was stabbed saying I can't breathe with his killer standing over him, the police standing over him, and not believing him, we'll never prevent it from happening again. But it also says I'm afraid that people are wise to how to extricate themselves. And I For me at 60 to think I now live in a society that is doing more for the people who commit crime than the victims is a really horribly sobering and nasty thought because I was brought up to believe that you shouldn't I mean, I You'd know this. Somebody said to us the other day, "You can't call them a police force anymore cuz that might give the impression they might be quite strong against you. What the hell, man? My dad
would be turning in his grave. But I don't want my boys to think that in their darkest moment, a time when perhaps heaven forbid God forbid they ever stabbed, that they won't be believed because perhaps the color of their skin or because their assailant said something. And I think what's happened is that we've created a culture where public servants fear being called racist more than they fear letting down a victim. Do you know what gives me hope? Cuz I don't believe that Henry's death is in vain. I remember saying this, I think it was to Ian Duncan Smith yesterday.
You know, 10 years ago if you'd mentioned the word immigration you were a racist. It is now the number one central feature in everybody's minds. If Henry Novak's death does anything, it should solidify the belief that there is two-tier policing. police have admitted it. Yeah. Well, Kier Starmer says no. But his police minister said she couldn't deny that it didn't exist. Yeah. Um the thing is when you make public servants like the police so terrified of getting a race issue wrong, it leads to catastrophic operational decisions. Like we saw they're hesitant. And policing they need confidence to act in the right
manner. I spoke to someone who's been in the Met for 25 years, and he told me that if there is a mob of white people, they will use the force necessary to contain that mob. If there is a mob of ethnic minorities, they will not use adequate force because if they get any accusation of racism, they will get thrown under the bus. By whom? By the leaders. It's the very fabric. Like I had real respect for the Sikh community in all of this. There was a gentleman from the Sikh community who went amongst those protesters and shook hands. A leader, a religious leader of the Sikh community
came out yesterday and apologized. I haven't seen this from Muslim leaders after some of the atrocities that we've witnessed. Um it's not the easiest first question, but you know what it's like on this show, you have to be honest. 87 treble two if you want to ask Layla a question. 0344 491000. You can call. My question for later is with the rise of Reform Britain and their membership and electoral success in the polls, there needs to be an accommodation between Reform and Reform in order to avoid splitting the vote and delivering a result none of us want. How does Reform intend to proceed as ignoring this issue is not in my mind says John in Nottingham an option.
Listen, I'm I'm focused on London and not one person's mentioned Reform to me on London. I've campaigned up and down the city. We have thousands of counselors. We are a party that's ready for government. We are a party that's polling, you know, 200 in the polls. They have How many counselors do they have? Nine counselors. We have MPs in Parliament. It's There is that debate though.
It's incomparable. Well, there is that debate and I actually had this with a Tory yesterday and I wouldn't disrespect him by giving out what he said off air. But you look at the prism of where we're at. Not in the election that's coming. I'm talking about the wider thing. And so many people who are center right or right are of the same mindset, which is whether it's the Tories. Hold on, excuse me. On air. My children trying to Yeah, but they call me on purpose on air to ask for things. Honestly, they drive me nuts. On air. They do it on purpose cuz they ask me for things that I'd normally say no, but they know I'm on air or I'm busy. So, I
have to say, "Okay, fine." Oh, really? Yeah, they're like, "Mom, can I order food?" I wouldn't give the little bugger a chance. But pay your own train ticket. I'm sorry, I completely forgot what I was going to say. They're always for money. They're they're always calling me What was I saying? Does anybody got any idea what I was saying? You're not helping me here, are you? Oh, they might have had a No, they won't have had a question for later. He's 17. He doesn't even know what a question is.
Um I find it I think it's really important that society thinks what might be if Look, none of us know what's going to happen in 3 years. And there isn't a political party that's going to go in a few months. I'm going to go into bed with you or I'm going to go into bed with you. I can sit here and I can say come on in 3 years time if Reform's getting 30% of the vote and the Tories are getting 10, and the only way to stop Starmer's ridiculous thing is to I don't know. Nobody can say that, right, right Nobody knows how things are going to go, but all I can say is we have a mission.
We have made a promise to the public. The public have put huge trust in us for radical change, and that's what we're going to deliver. We're not here to cling on to 20 years of failure, or just tinker around the edges. And if you want radical change, if you want to see common sense, really, you know, where justice is color blind, public services are color blind, public employment is color blind, British people are prioritized, businesses are rewarded for risk, safer streets, safe borders, and a thriving economy, then, you know, you can only vote for us. There's no other party. Let's go to the phones now. We're going to Surrey. Darren, you're through to Leila Cunningham. Good morning.
Hi, good morning. Hi, Leila. Hi, Charlie. Um, Leila, when you were on the Jeremy Kyle show, I don't know if it was last week or week before, but you said something you talked about in the show that really annoyed me. Oh, dear. Um, I'm a Reform voter. Go on. Uh, my wife is a Reform voter, but I'll just put some context. So, my wife is Slovak. Mhm. Uh, we've been together 25 years. She came here um to be a student to learn English because you can get a better job in Europe cuz it's business language of Europe if you can speak fluent English.
Um, we've since settled down. We've two kids. Got a lot of family. You said that uh foreign nationals should not be entitled to any benefits. My first thought was thinking, my gosh, if anything happened to me, and she needs some help, what would she do? She's a been a taxpayer. She's paid She's never taken any benefits. She's worked all the time she's been here. She's contributed heavily to this country, and you're saying that she's not entitled to anything if she was in trouble. That's what you said. Listen, your wife has She's got right as well, by the way. Of course. And she sounds like the type of immigrants we want, but what Can I ask you a question? Why is she not British? She could be British.
And all we ask to pay the £3,000. Why should she? They give it out to everyone else for free who comes here with nothing to contribute. But she's not She's a proud Slovak. She doesn't feel she needs to be. She doesn't feel she needs to be paying that Can I jump in and offer my two pennyworth? Cuz maybe I'm missing the point. Cuz I think there's a sort of gray area here, isn't there? I Is it not true to say that if you are in this country from abroad and you are paying tax? She's had children. She's been here 25 years. That is completely and utterly different to somebody who comes here, refuses to learn the language, doesn't pay tax, and sits on their ass on
benefits. But the fear in him is a relevant fear, which is if Sorry, Darren. It's terrible. If I die, how's this woman who's been here 25 years? Is the only way she's going to get help by becoming British? Or would she look at that and go, "Hello, she's done a bit for Christ's sake. She deserves help." There's always edge cases, but the fundamental principle is welfare for British people, social housing for British people. My husband's on You know, he's in the same position. And he recognizes that he has to become British. And we understand it's a cost, but being British is a privilege. And we just ask that people who want to rely on the British taxpayer make a commitment to the country. If they're eligible to become British,
that's what they do. It's You know, it's how most countries function, by the way. Darren? No, but hold on a second. There's people getting British passports and not having to pay the money. I think what happens here, Layla, cuz let me be quite frank. Please. Right? So, what happens is the people who are honest and work and contribute, they get the least. And the people that come here and we have to Oh, we got to help and we got to do this. They get the most. And I'll say something else as well, Layla. I think And I'm going to include everybody, the whole political class. You guys think there's a blanket solution to problems. There isn't.
There's nuance, there's detail. You can't just throw blanket over a situation and say, "Well, that's that. That's for everybody. That's it done." There has to be a lot more hard I'd obviously be a useless politician because I categorically would make an eight an edit right now, which would be that in this lady's case and other people's cases who have lived here, worked taxes, paid their taxes, and had kids, I believe the government should pay for her to have British citizenship. I don't believe we should I'm with him, mate. We're giving out millions to people who have no right to be here.
Well, and exactly. So, that's that's going to stop. You know, I don't think British citizenship should just come after a time limit. It should rely on contribution. It should rely on so much more. So, so I understand your frustration. I see it and I hear it and I see it on the streets. That will stop. But, a fundamental premise, a first principle of reform is that if you're British, you know, there is so many foreigners who are living off the taxpayer and that's got to stop. And of course, as I said, there will be edge cases. You know, there will be the 70-year-old man or the 60-year-old man who suddenly becomes ill and but Or the woman who's 25 years here and speaks the lingo and has had kids.
Yeah, but the fundamental premise and I think you'll find most countries, America, you know, most countries operate like that. If you're British, then you have access to everything Britain has to offer. Otherwise, we can't afford it. Uh Darren, listen. Um Worry not, Guider or Auto Capt if I Thank you very much indeed. Call us at 10. Tim says, "Layla, color blindness across society is essential." I agree with you. How would reform achieve it? Well, we would, number one, remove all DEI uh training. You saw that I think the Hampshire police said that because of DEI training, they were hesitant.
They've got to stop one in seven officers said they felt controlled and pressured to feel certain ways during diversity training. A day-long course titled uh inclusion [snorts] matters, Layla. Uh taught officers about racism, unconscious bias, privilege, and the importance of being an ally. Yeah, and you know, so I think we've developed a culture where race is discussed through a very narrow lens as well. Yeah. You know, it's it's always the white man is the oppressor. Um, and racism is horrible no matter how but it doesn't only flow one way and somehow it we're not allowed to say that there is racism towards white people and that is due
Listen, I've suffered racism growing up. It doesn't mean I want to see it in the reverse. You know, it doesn't mean because as a Is racism happening both ways in our society? Yeah, it's happening every You know, it's not because someone's white that they're immune to it. You know, that they're immune of prejudice, immune of being discriminated against. Novak a victim of white racism? got to ask yourself they were called they said it was a racism incident and they only saw it through that prism that it almost denied what they could see through their eyes. They were so focused
on getting the race issue right that they saw that his killer standing above him unhurt. He's saying I can't breathe and somehow that completely clouded their judgment of what's going on. understand and I've talked about it all week how any competent police officer in looking at that situation would not have gone this doesn't make any sense to me at all. I need to at least ask some questions. Yeah, and I don't want to blame the officers. There is a But I think there needs to be blame attached. Completely bloody incompetent. they are incompetent but you got to understand what they were told and what the training is and what the priorities are.
And you could lose your job. And you So, that's what I mean. I feel like perhaps the repercussions for getting the race issue wrong is worse than getting failing a victim. What did Nigel say earlier? Nigel said and I quote he was almost this guy was almost saying on the training you can miss a murder, you can miss a burglary, you can miss, you know, a man who's taken out a sawn-off shotgun as long as you don't racially get it wrong. I mean, what's I nearly swore. I've got to go a whole week without swearing. Much. What have we got to that controls policing? That's terrible.
I saw it as a senior Crown Prosecutor in London. You know, as a senior one, I could discontinue so many very serious cases, but if they were racially aggravated, I didn't have the authority. But people are using that as a bloody excuse. I've sworn now, a bloody excuse, aren't they? You know, I saw a lady with her a Roma gypsy lady who was her and her Yeah, the men around her were pickpocketing. And I said, "You can't pickpocket in my area. You're not allowed." And she said, "If you say that again, I'm going to call the police and say you were racist." It's used as almost a threat, as a defense.
Um and obviously, the person who murdered Henry Newrick thought, "If I say it's a racist thing, perhaps I could get away with it. Perhaps I could obfuscate and didn't say he was racist. He just got up and bashed his eye up, so it looked like he'd been hit. I mean, I But the fact that he thought that if I said it he it was a racist attack, it would give him some time or give him an excuse or allow him to somehow get away with it, shows how far we've fallen. It has to be color blind. There cannot be a
hierarchy of victims. There's a hierarchy of racism now. Racism against white people is not allowed to be spoken about. Yeah. You know. Um just finally, from Barry, he was talking about the um he was talking about the kirpan. We had a an email earlier from a Dr. Singh who said I, you know, the kirpan is the ceremonial weapon. It was an 8-in blade that vile I can't even remember his name, Vikram Diggle, was carrying. Um yesterday Z came on and was talking about within the first 100 days there will be an act that basically bans that and you know, gives police powers and gets rid of the DEI lectures and all of
that. You'll be solidly behind that, I would have thought. You know, one of the premises of Britain is equality under the law. There are no exceptions for religion. There are no exceptions. That is can be used as a lethal weapon. And why should they be allowed to carry it? And people say, "Oh, it's an attack on Sikhs." It's not an attack on Sikhs. It is a fundamental principle of this country that it is equality under the law. And yes, it could have been one incident, it could have been two incidents. But somehow it takes a tragedy to reevaluate where we've gone wrong to prevent it from ever happening again. Doesn't have to We don't have to wait for multiple incidents. One is enough for us to
realize perhaps we got this wrong and now it has to change. Just very quickly, 30 seconds. Will this be the moment Henry Novak's death? Do you hope? Do you believe? so. I hope that we go back to a society where a situation is judged by conduct and what's before their eyes as opposed to the prism of race or identity. Laila Cunningham, Reform UK mayoral candidate in London. Thank you so much indeed.
