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If you were a coffee tree and you were going to end up in Peru, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, India, or Kenya-all these different countries where coffee is grown-the production environment would be different. You pack differently when you go on vacation. Coffee trees need to be adapted to the environment in which they operate or grow. And the challenge that coffee faces is that we essentially have a template pattern around the world, and that's what farmers have had to work with. This is what needs to change. Verne Long, CEO of World Coffee Research, thank you so much for joining us here at Forbes.
Thank you for inviting me. I think you are doing really important work. You are focused on the sustainability of coffee crops in general. For those who are not familiar with World Coffee Research, can you give a 60- second presentation or overview of what you do every day? So, World Coffee Research is an industry organization focused on developing best-in-class climate- resilient coffee varieties to support coffee farmers around the world. So it was a matter of creation. And now I'm going to ask my first question, which I think you get regularly based on what you've told Forbes in the past, but I drink at least one cup of coffee every day. I'm refilling my coffee Mr. Coffee is about six lines long, and I
drink a lot of it. Will I be able to do this for the rest of my life, or will I eventually have to diversify my caffeine sources due to climate change, geopolitical instability, tariffs, cost-all of the things that are putting pressure on our coffee crops? What's interesting about coffee is that coffee is produced in many countries. Over 50 countries produce and export coffee. So you can count on your cup of coffee in the future, mainly because farmers in many countries are committed to this crop and are looking for ways to increase its productivity and sustainability in the coming years. And this is possible because science and technology support them. So, uh, World Coffee Research was actually started in
2012 because the industry realized that there wasn't enough investment and innovation. Essentially, you have a very long supply chain: producers in many low-income countries and consumers throughout the Global North. Finding an approach to developing technology that works for farmers so they can deliver their crops to you here in New York requires the involvement of many supply chain participants. So delivering technology to the right participants, in the right place, and at the right time is key, and this organization, along with many others in the industry, are working together to make this work in the future. When you talk about technology, I think of all the areas in which World Coffee
Research can help this supply chain process. I watched a webinar where you talked about developing new types of seeds to diversify, perhaps where coffee trees grow. It's a tree, isn't it? This is a tree, of course. You see, this is what I take for granted. I see the grains, I grind the grains, I drink the coffee. I don't always think about where my coffee comes from. But are you more focused on technology? Are you focused on the supply chain? Are you focused on farmers? Is it really all of the above? We are focused on trees, 100%. So we are people of sorts. So while there are seed companies for other commodities, whether
it's the vegetable seeds you buy in the spring at your local garden center or the crops grown by soybean and corn farmers in the Midwest, crop varieties are usually handled either by national research institutes, as the United States did in the 1920s and 1930s, or by seed companies. But there is actually no vibrant global coffee seed industry. So the industry came together to create WCR. So, we are an organization that creates tree varieties for farmers in partnership with the national coffee institutes in each of the producing countries that have this responsibility. So we are working with national coffee institutes to create trees. So we just focus on trees, on making
better trees. When you talk about developing new varieties for the industry, I want to make it clear that you are kind of an industry representative, right? World Coffee Research represents both the private and public sectors. You work with countries, but you are funded by the private sector, which roasts and sells the grains. Is this a fair summary of what you do and how you are funded? Yes, that means our organization is a trade association. We represent the interests of 200 member companies in 30 countries. And our members fund a global breeding program, which is carried out in partnership with governments.
What have you learned from this public-private partnership model? I think every CEO who is at this intersection can gain something new from interacting with countries and companies. Is there anything special about your work that you think you've understood? So, this happened because in my previous job I often worked with commodities where there was close cooperation between governments. Governments often collaborated, and then there was a competitive private sector. Moving on to coffee, I quickly realized that governments are just as competitive as my member companies. And that created a dynamic where we needed to develop a model that would work in this extremely competitive environment, because that kind of
passion can lead to incredibly compelling results, and that's what we developed with this program. I understand. I saw that aspect, but I was basing it on some of the questions we asked you earlier. I knew there was USAID funding, so there is government funding here. But I just want to take a step back for those who might be watching this. And I, I know you've told us before that there's been a lot of pessimism in the media about the future of coffee, but we saw that in September, coffee prices in the US went up about 7%, and then earlier this year, late last year, there were reports of double-digit percentage price increases due to various factors. I named a few of them, did n't I? We had geopolitical pressure, we had tariffs, there is inflation, all of the
above. How often do you have to deal with pricing issues? And do you have a different answer than others in your industry? Absolutely. In every agricultural commodity in the world, if you have high-yielding farmers who are profitable and productive, they can efficiently produce whatever they grow because of technology. So the reason we are seeing increasing pressure on coffee supply is because of a real asymmetry in the level of investment and innovation to support farmers. So, earlier this fall, in fact, even the US government acknowledged this.
Significant investments have been announced that will actually increase coffee and cocoa productivity. And this program, which will be led by the University of Hawaii, is that kind of partnership and engagement with the university community to begin to combat this innovation deficit. But scarcity is actually a good thing because we know where to focus our efforts and energy. By delivering productivity gains through new innovations, you can actually overcome the challenges we see in coffee production. Farmers are in a tough spot right now, and no offense to the pickles, but they are in a bit of a tough spot because the innovations they have at their fingertips are limited. As more investment and innovation increases to drive this
productivity increase for farmers, this essentially means higher wages for farmers. And that's the basis of helping, you know, essentially, to grow and stabilize production. You told us because you were on the Forbes "50 Over 50" list for 2026. So we sent out a survey evaluating who should be on this list. And this is a list, for those who aren't familiar, of women over 50 who are revealing their greatest professional power and influence. And I would say that as CEO of World Coffee Research you have a lot of influence. But you were talking about.I'm just flipping through to get it right.Coffee accounts for 4% of the value of agricultural
output in coffee-producing countries, yet it only accounts for 2% of innovation spending. Do you know why there is such a gap? I mean, everyone loves coffee, maybe not everyone loves coffee. I have family members who only drink tea. But given the popularity of coffee, which I would say is higher than some other types of beverages, why is there such a gap in innovation? It comes down to the history and heritage of coffee, the place of production and consumption of coffee. And in low-income countries, there are many ways to use those dollars from export crops or those euros. So, because countries export coffee, they have to
spend a lot of investment on hospitals, schools, infrastructure. So investing in coffee innovation is a difficult choice when you have all these competing urgent short-term needs at the country level. So ultimately it comes down to how do we structure this to ensure the level of investment we need? And that is what is changing. This is what is changing the situation now. In fact, the International Coffee Organization has just announced, in partnership with the Italian Ministry, the creation of the Espresso Fund, which is another investment in innovation to support coffee. So over the last few years, it's been recognized that this investment gap exists, and part of the analysis that we commissioned was to clarify that it's an
investment gap in general. And this report helped all of us understand where to focus our investments, and now the investments are coming. Governments around the world are trying to fill this gap so that we can all drink a cup of coffee for the rest of our lives. This series is called "Built Differently ". So we ask leaders how they think differently, act differently, than others in their industry. Since World Coffee Research is essentially an industry, I'm going to make your industry agriculture. So, we talked a little bit about the existing innovation gap or about investment in innovation. But is there anything about your leadership or your way of thinking about the future of coffee that you think is different from other leaders in
agriculture? So I'm actually going to bring us back to coffee, because one of the things about coffee is that it's such a complex industry. There are so many participants in it that it was part of the challenge in mobilizing investment and focusing on innovation that has happened in other commodities around the world. I trained to be a corn breeder. I've worked with sweet potatoes, I've worked with potatoes, I've worked with lima beans, I've worked with many different commodities, and that's a completely different perspective from how different commodities have addressed the problems that farmers face that haven't really transitioned to coffee. There are some solutions that other products have found. So, I have to say that while I was in coffee
, I realized that because the industry is so complex, it's very difficult to identify the signal versus the noise. Do you know why prices are higher? What variables cause this? So, waiting, doing the analysis to really dig into these issues and see the real challenges, helped us develop a very systematic roadmap for the challenges ahead. It's quite simple. Uh, you know, if you invest in innovation and farmers succeed, the product has a lot more potential. As farmers create more differentiated coffee, as we've seen, you know, in soybeans. I come from the state of Illinois, where farmers have 600 different varieties of soybeans available to grow. When it comes to coffee, we have 125 varieties from around the
world. So if you just imagine, and in apples, there are 5,000 varieties that farmers can choose from. Different types of coffee? That's right. So, this is the level of innovation that we have to work with. So, I'll do a little thought experiment for you . So, if you were going on vacation to Peru and your friends were already packing, you would pack your clothes in a suitcase, your boots, and all the clothes you were going to wear when you hiked the Inca Trail. And then your friends say, "Oh, actually, you'd better go to Indonesia." You would take everything out of your suitcase and start over, wouldn't you? You would put other clothes in the suitcase. Well, think about it from the perspective of a coffee tree. If you were a coffee tree and you
were going to be in Peru, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, India, or Kenya, in all these different countries where coffee is produced, the production environment would be different. Hmm. You pack differently when you go on vacation. Coffee trees need to be adapted to the environment in which they operate or grow. And the challenge that coffee faces is that we essentially have a template pattern around the world, and that's what farmers have had to work with. That's what needs to change. Farmers need customized technologies that work for them in their environment. And the environment is changing, so they don't need what worked last year. They need something that will work
for the next 20 years. And that's what we're essentially doing. And going back to that, you know, having this perspective from the other side of agriculture, is that breeding technology is such a powerful way to do more with less , to develop varieties that respond to, just imagine the tomatoes in the grocery store, variety. This is exciting. And that's what varieties can provide. It was completely under-innovative in coffee, so this was a very obvious place to start. So, there is innovation in terms of variety. How much do you focus on cultivation methods, irrigation or some other. Okay, we have the seeds, we planted the seeds for these trees, but we need to educate the farmers or we need to innovate in everything else
that goes into growing a healthy coffee tree. And these are the kinds of studies that are often done by green coffee suppliers, national coffee institutes, and even this new, uh, research program that will be led by the University of Hawaii and Clemson, that's exactly what; they will look at ways to improve productivity, not just in varieties, but in all the other things farmers can do. Adding shade, reducing shade, varying plant spacing, all different ways to successfully farm. This will be researched there, and will build on what farmers have already figured out what works for them And when you're looking to innovate in coffee varieties, can you get a little silly and walk us through the process? How does it even begin?
Where do ideas come from? Is there an example you can show us? So, variety development is really a numbers game. So in modern plant breeding, a lot of people might think of genetic engineering, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking, uh, essentially, about three important features. First, it's diverse genetics. You need lots of different varieties that come from different places that can be recombined. Imagine walking into your, uh, cupboard and all you have is a can of artichokes, and that's it. Well, there's not much you can do about it. But if you have a lot of ingredients in your cupboard, there are lots of different dinner combinations you can make, right? So, the more
ingredients you have, the more variables you have, the more different dishes you can make. The same goes for genetic diversity. So, step one - you need diverse genetics. And coffee has it. This is not a problem. Step two is, uh, pressure. You need to deploy these trees in many different production environments. And in any given country, you might just have drier or wetter areas, but if you have a global network of partners testing them all at the same time, somewhere in the world it's hot and somewhere cold, somewhere dry and somewhere wet. And that's the second part of a high-yield breeding program-it's a lot of diversity: you crossbreed plants
to get different combinations, and you spread them around the world, and you see how they behave. And then, thirdly, it's just numbers. If you are trying to find something that will be suitable for a Peruvian farmer at a certain altitude, you need a lot of options to choose from. So, these are the numbers. So, genetic diversity, lots of places to test your trees, and big numbers. This is a game of probability. I started with a culinary or agricultural question, and ended with statistics and probability, which, I must admit, is a less comfortable basis for me as a human being. But, while we are already in the
land of statistics and numbers, I have to ask, what do you think about the economic impact of what you are doing? You talked about there being a gap in investment in innovation. Do you think about it on an individual farmer basis in terms of how much more income they could get from new varieties? Do you view this in terms of increasing the country's GDP, or perhaps as increasing revenue for roasters and suppliers? What's interesting about genetics is that everyone benefits. The environment wins, farmers win, people who need supplies win, and governments win in this case because they export them and get revenue.
The key here is that we have a limited amount of land and a limited amount of natural resources, right? So, rain and fertilizer, and, you know, natural resources like land and rain, and then fertilizer and technological resources that a farmer can use. You want to use them as efficiently as possible, not only because of cost, but also because of the environmental impact of agriculture, right? So, we want to make agriculture as environmentally friendly and profitable as possible for farmers. Genetics is an incredibly powerful tool. It simply means you can do more with less. When you plant this variety, you can actually get more coffee with a fixed or lower fertilizer input. And that's great for the environment, it's great for the
farmer who has less money to buy, and it's great for the supply chain who wants a steady supply of quality coffee. And that's why investments in agriculture often focus on seeds. Mother Nature gives us a wide range of Arabica or Robusta types. These are two types of coffee. So there are so many different species within Arabica that when you start to crossbreed them, you can get a new variety that benefits the farmer, the supply chain, the governments that export and want to generate revenue. It's about doing more with less, and it all starts with the building blocks that nature gives us.
This is interesting. And now when you talk about genetics, it relies on existing genetics. These are not genetically modified organisms, as we often talk about GMOs in food, right? That's true. It's just a catch.It's like racehorses. You take a racehorse that won the Triple Crown and cross it with another racehorse, and you get more racehorses. If you start with a donkey.That's right. It's about numbers, isn't it? So, starting with genetic diversity and having lots, lots, lots of options. And plants can have thousands and thousands of them, of which one or two will become the variety that will be popularized that year.
I ask about genetics because this conversation about GMOs has been going on for decades. But we are in an environment where the very word "seed" has become politicized, and seed oil is vilified in some parts of the internet. Have you had to change the way you talk about your work at World Coffee Research because of some of the specific, uh, nomenclature challenges of 2026? So, to be honest, we, uh, communicate B2B and B2F, business-to-farmer. And farmers are looking for seeds that are suitable for their farm. The varieties being developed create much better environmental benefits than the varieties we have had for decades. So what's interesting about coffee is that we only have 125 varieties to choose from.
Everything we produce now will be better for the environment, better for farmers, better for the supply chain. So we're in a different position than a lot of other products that might have, you know, uh, more complicated consumer communication issues. Do you think coffee is in a better position than other commodities? I think it's encouraging because where other commodities have to find new and different ways to continue to do more with less, coffee is at the beginning of this journey, which many other crops have already achieved. And so we're in a position where we can develop varieties that will help poorer farmers climb up that income ladder. And that's what's exciting, and ultimately, that's what really motivates our entire team.
So what do you say to people who have seen these headlines about rising prices and/or climate change related to coffee and are saying we are doomed? And maybe they're not paying attention to the research you point to, but how big of a risk is climate change to future growth opportunities even with these new varieties? Climate change is a real challenge. I mean, in the United States, our wheat crop has really been hit by drought this year. And, you know, we have some of the most advanced wheat varieties in the world. So, varieties alone can't solve everything, but they are a really important tool. In the future, if you don't have this approach, improving varieties, you will really find yourself
depressed. And then I will be very concerned about the industry. Because I know that this program, working in partnership with 11 governments, recognizes that variety development is an extremely powerful tool and can be very useful in protecting farmers from the negative effects of climate change. Potentially, there are other drawbacks. I mentioned at the beginning of the conversation that World Coffee Research received money from USAID This program was abruptly shut down at the beginning of the second Trump administration. How dependent are you on government funding? How did you have to diversify your funding sources to continue this research? Because I think funding directly impacts how quickly you can test and innovate.
So, funding is important, and that's why we are funded by the industry. So our core breeding operations are funded by the private sector because they are strategic investors who want coffee for the future. Many of our companies are both public and family-owned, passed down through generations So they all want to stay in coffee, in the coffee business, coffee from trees. And this is exactly the kind of investment that is being made. The value of public investment, which is why we are so excited to see the launch of these new investments in both Europe and the US to support coffee research, is that we recognize that this is not a politicized issue. The point is, in fact, that
66% of Americans consume coffee every day. Uh, 2.2 million Americans are employed in the coffee business. Uh, in Europe there is a huge consumption of coffee, five cups a day. There is simply a huge level of global commitment to this product. And that's why when we think about where we were a few years ago when the USAID programs were, um, terminated, the fact that they, these investments in research, have come back is because there's a shared bipartisan commitment both in the United States and around the world, which is just evident from what's happening, um, this fall, with the investment announcements. So I hear that the USAID cuts have made
headlines and I think have raised a lot of concern about the future of innovation in all of science, not just agriculture. But it seems like you were able to continue your mission at World Coffee Research despite some cuts in government funding thanks to private sector money. Our industry mobilized, and we informed, ahem, the administration, and we informed, ahem, Congress about the value of public investment in agriculture. And it was a truly warm welcome from both sides. Hmm, hmm, Gill and the administration have been very supportive of moving this forward, so we're so glad that we can, we can do this.
This sounds like an elementary question, but do you think people just took for granted the future of the coffee crop and the ability to drink coffee? You are talking about education. You taught from a very early perspective, because as I said at the beginning of this conversation, I don't really think about where my coffee comes from when I drink my cup. I realize that I buy from a women-owned store here in New York because I like to support women entrepreneurs, but I hadn't really thought about where the grains came from.
What was key and perhaps how you engaged the government in this educational process? Uh, as we said, there are many challenges in the world. There are tariffs, there is geopolitical instability, there is climate pressure, there is just a lot going on, and the polycrises seem to continue to, you know, multiply. And yet everyone returns to their morning routine, which includes a cup of coffee. So what we actually found was talking about coffee and explaining how important tropical agriculture is to supplying this amazing drink that we all love so much. Simply going back to basics and explaining the origins of your coffee was a very powerful first step. And the second part is data. You need evidence to make informed
decisions. And I think as a scientist who has worked closely with economists for many years trying to understand how to prioritize investments and innovations to get the greatest social, economic and environmental returns, data is important. So in 2023, we actually commissioned World Coffee Research to do an analysis to understand how big the investment gap is and where that investment should go to drive productivity and drive innovation in coffee. This investment really helped us understand and articulate the challenges this product faces and what we can do proactively to support it. And it's this analysis that really underpins these announcements that you're hearing, is that we've shown that innovation is a key driver. There is an
opportunity to do something here. We don't have to just sit and cook. We can actually proactively shape our future. And, uh, I think that's why we're in this position where there's a resurgence of investment and innovation, because we all want coffee to succeed. Obviously, the scientific process, innovation in coffee, innovation in cultures takes time. But we were talking about 125 varieties that exist now, compared to.Did you say 5,000 varieties of apples? What is the timeframe for increasing this number from 125 to even 300? Hmm. So, in our own program today, we have 5,000 candidates growing all over the world. And these are the contenders. We don't know who will win, but they are all grown in lands
from Indonesia to Kenya, from India to Peru. And we appreciate them. Every year we test their yield, disease resistance, and how they taste in the cup. This results in a 6-year process. And then you choose 40 semi-finalists. And for any given country, we're going to select between 5,000 and 40 candidates. And those 40 semi-finalists will be propagated, so to speak, which takes 2 years, and then you need to plant them in the ground for another 6 years and test them in the country where they will actually be grown. And from this national testing, you can choose a winner or one to three varieties. So for any given country, you really want to start with
thousands of possibilities, narrow them down to 40 or 50, and then from there choose between one and three. So, it sounded like a 14-year process, 6 + 6 + 2? Yes. This is where we are now. So, uh, maybe not, uh, it could be long-term. I wanted to say that there is short-term, medium-term, long-term. So, how many varieties do you think we will have in 50 years? Oh, we'll have hundreds. Because every program in this partnership from 11 countries has genetics, and they all share data. And that's what's quite exciting about what we've been able to create in partnership with both industry and governments. Coffee is an
extremely competitive product. Countries want to outperform each other, they want to export more, so they are very competitive. Companies operating on the principle of "counting" want to sell more coffee to consumers and crowd each other out in the market. So there is an extremely competitive atmosphere in our industry. But it is precisely this competitiveness and desire that everyone has one common goal - to have coffee from trees in the system. So we are all aligned around this very specific goal. So, this program is a collaboration model that is a unique way to bring together competitive participants to try to develop something together and then extract competitive value from it. So, by working
with all of these countries, 11 governments that are involved in this program, each of them has access to a subset of genetics that they can develop into varieties for their farmers to help their farmers stand out, export something really exciting or different that will allow them to differentiate themselves from each other, because they all produce and export coffee. Cooperation. This might be my new favorite word because it could be the key to discovering new and different ways to grow coffee.
Absolutely.and developing innovations that drive growth and opportunity. There are so many benefits that have not been realized by this industry because we have not had product diversity. Think about all the farm- to-fork restaurants you've been to where they bring in amazing vegetables that come from local farms or farms in the region, and you get a very special experience, whether you're in Napa or New York or Amsterdam, because there's so much variety. And that's something you can develop when you have a real, robust model of cooperation with many participants. There are many chefs in the kitchen, many ingredients on offer, and when it all comes together,
everyone can find something valuable for themselves, their business, their farmers. This is quite fascinating. I like the analogies you used with other parts of the kitchen or with making a dish of artichokes or a whole pantry full of ingredients. I'm going to make another analogy. I love wine. I love visiting vineyards around the world. What we're starting to see in the wine world because of climate change is grape varieties growing in places you'd never expect to get good wine from. There was a great 60 Minutes piece a few years ago about vineyards in England. One of my favorite wine regions is the Finger Lakes in New York, which historically might be considered a little too cold, but actually has really great growing conditions
Given how we see climate change, and in New York, I would point out that we currently have a subtropical climate. Could we see coffee growing in places like New York City within the next 50 years due to climate change? So, coffee trees are a tropical tree, so taking them through the winter might be a bit much, but that's part of the power of varieties and developing varieties that respond to the production environment they're in So, existing coffee regions. We've often heard this idea that coffee land is shrinking, and 50% of currently suitable land may not be suitable in the 2050s and beyond. What we do know is that it is based on modern technology. So if you have a drought, you have irrigation, if you have access to water, and
that changes the dynamics of what you can grow. So, in part, it's an adaptation. We know that existing coffee communities with better technology, better varieties, adapted to these evolving production environments can continue to be successful. And yes, new areas will open up, and opportunities will arise as varieties are developed that are much more suited to the production environment of these new locations. We can absolutely see unusual places opening up for coffee. When you say unusual places, is there anywhere in the United States where coffee growing could one day become a major agricultural industry? Uh, big agriculture could be a push, but, uh, there are certainly producers in Texas and California who are already getting into coffee and working to figure
it out. There is such a possibility. Florida is also considering coffee production. This looks like a huge marketing opportunity. American- made coffee. Uh, ultimately, there are innovators in this industry, and they will find a product that suits them and their consumer. Well, the key problem, of course, in coffee production is that modern systems require a significant amount of labor. And ultimately, like any producer in California of all the specialty crops that we love here, you know, all over the United States, they need a lot of workers, and you need to have, um, systems to manage the harvest and the care of the plants. So, it's not as
simple as just will the plant grow? There is much more to agriculture than just that. This seems like a beautiful ending. Verne, thank you very much for coming and telling us about all this. Thank you very much for inviting me.
