3:04
Hello, I'm Jane Witherspoon and welcome to the world conversation. In this episode, we're joined by Sihasa Juan Kediao, the deputy prime minister for Thailand and Minister of Foreign Affairs. Tani Hassa, thank you so much for joining us today. Thailand has spent decades positioning itself as a country that can talk to everybody, but the world is becoming increasingly fragmented, more divided. Can Thailand really remain friends with everyone or are there some hard choices to make now? Oh, definitely. you know, we like to be friends with everyone. And uh, of course, as you said, under the present circumstances where we see more geopolitical competition, geoeconomic, geotechnology
competition. It's not that easy, you know. And of course the main contestation is between the two superpowers which whom are both friends Yes. of Thailand. Right. Yes. Well, we don't take side and we ask our friends also not to force us to take side but it's sometimes the message is clear. Right. Mhm. But uh so but not taking side does not mean being neutral. Okay. Because sometimes neut neutrality does not serve your interest. So we do have to take sides on issues from time to time. That's unavoidable.
You mentioned they're the superpowers. So we're talking China and the US who are great allies for Thailand. How do you balance that relationship though? You say you make it about the issues not the countries. Mhm. Well, the best way of balancing is to you know we have to consider what is in our interest. Mhm. You know and what are uh the principles that we stand for and what we consider to be what is right. Yes. and if there are when times come that uh you have to make a decision, we do have to make a decision and maybe it
goes one way and the other party might not like it. But uh we hope that you know that they will respect us for having made that decision rather than you know sitting on the wall, sitting on the fence. China is Thailand's biggest trading partner. How can that come into play? that diplomacy when it is affecting your economics of the country. Well, both if you were talking about uh China and United States, both are important uh to Thailand. China is a major economic partner. It's our biggest trading partner. Investment from China is growing especially in uh electric vehicles as you know. The United
States also has a lot of investment in Thailand you know and um at the same time uh the United States is important in terms of it's the security role that it plays in maintaining the balance of power. Yes. So, so you know we for both countries uh both countries are important partners of Thailand but I think the best way to maintain a balance is to have first maintain strategic autonomy as much as we can. Yes. Second have the freedom of choices. That means you know it's not one or the other. We have other major powers who have interest in the region. Uh India rising power. Japan still economic powerhouse. Korea you know coming up economically
and Australia which also has strong interest in the region. So sometimes balancing doesn't mean balancing between the two. Right? And we are trying to engage constructively with all the two superpowers and also the other major powers who also play a vital role in the region. You have described ASAN which is the association of Southeast Asian nations as being at the heart of your country's foreign policy. But the region is facing pressure from the US and China rivalry. There's the situation in Myanmar. tensions between its own members. Do you think Assean is strong enough to shape events as opposed to being reactive to them here?
Well, you know, I've been in the foreign ministry for 40 years. Yes, I've seen, you know, how important ASEAN is to all the member states. We were able to overcome many critical periods in the past because we had Assan. Yes. During the cold war, during the conflict in Cambodia, right? So, all of us recognize that we're in this together. Yes. Right. Maybe during the good days, you know, when the situation is not like now, we forgot about that a little bit. Right. But I think we realize that uh now that we're confronted with um many challenges, we have to really pull our strength and you know the concept of in centrality is still there but maybe we have to take it further and enhance
that concept. Meaning that we have to raise the level of our regionalism. That's important because if we simply think about our national interest, it's going to difficult for us to pull our weight, right? Second, we must be resilient. Resilient in terms of making sure that we, you know, we can react to situations quickly. Yes, you know, we still have this principle consensus takes time, but we have to do things more quickly. Second, being resilient now these days is economically is also important. We are a market of 700 million people. We are integrating but we're not in we have not integrated enough.
You mentioned Cambodia there. What is the situation and how are relations at the moment? Well, you know, we want to get beyond the conflict between our two countries and no two countries living side by side. We need to live together. Yes. but live together in a basis of mutual respect, mutual trust and mutual confidence. Yes. And that is the basis for us to develop our relations and certainly we cannot do it on our part. We want to we hope that the Cambodian would you know join us in this effort. We want to rebuild our relations. But rebuilding also means that we have to, you know, put a stop to some of the what we see as acts of provocation.
Yeah. Especially in the international forums where, you know, Thailand seems to be targeted all the time on matters that are not related to the issues that we are dealing with. So, so we are, you know, ready and [clears throat] uh anytime that the Cambodian side is ready, I'm sure we can take our relationship forward. You and the prime minister have advocated calibrated re-engagement, gradually reintegrating Myanmar into a CN dialogue. Some critics would argue that engaging with Myanmar's authorities risks legitimizing them. Why do you believe that engagement is the best strategy for Thailand?
Well, those critics, it's easy to criticize when you're not the neighboring country of Myanmar. Mhm. For us, it's not an academic exercise. You know, we deal with situation in Myanmar every day for the past 5 years along our border, right? and they've had election not a perfect election but we believe that they must continue with a peace process and continue having talks with the opposition ethnic group. So opposition is clear that under this policy of recalibrated engagement, re-engagement that means we want to bring my back to ASEAN.
Yeah. But it takes it has to be a stepby-step effort and they have to respond positively to our concern as well. But a Myanmar that is isolated from Asan is also not good in terms of geopolitics. Right. And our approach is first definitely you know any neighboring country you have to deal with the border issues border trade border security scam operations drugs pollution in the waters in the sky we have to talk with the government in the other track that means the situation we have not abandoned our hope that they will move forward and we have, you know, conveyed this messages all along and but in the end it's up to them. It's up to them to make things work. It's up to them to move forward with peace, you know, with
dialogue. So ultimately, it has to be a Myanmar, Myanmar owned process inside the country. We've talked about um neighboring countries and the region here, but looking further a field. Um how are you engaging more actively with partners um in the EU, the UK, Australia, you know, further a field as Canada? You know, we live in a world where we see the rules-based international order. Yes. uh breaking down the multilateral trading system on which we depended so much also breaking down right or not working and it's not just us looking at these partners it's these partners looking at us as well the Indo-Pacific is probably where we see
much of the opportunities in trade investment and AEN is the one of the pillars of the Indoacific and so I think there's a strong degree of mutual desire on both on the part of these countries and on the part of Thailand and ASEAN to enhance our relations. How can Thailand make sure that it attracts investment from you know around the world so that you're not dependent on just one market. Well, first of all, as I mentioned, we're in a region that is very dynamic economically. I've seen 700 million people but we're not uh you know we recognize that we it's up to us as well to make ourselves attractive for investment. I have to accept that the
past few years I think we because of you know some our politics had not settled down we could not push through some of the reforms that we that are needed now you know we're doing a lot of restructuring reform of the economy deregulation and also we're moving towards the new industries I think one important consideration that those who are coming to invest they think of course the region the market and Now it's clean energy. Yes, everybody talks about clean energy, the new industry because they want and so Thailand, you know, we're very much engaged in trying to develop our sources of clean energy, not just with Thailand, you know, we're working with Laos on hydro power. Yeah. And uh also my prime minister was in
Singapore recently. We talk about another clean energy hub in involving Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand. So, we're trying to also make ourselves attractive to foreign investors. We're seeing a lot of supply chains becoming increasingly reorganized around the world. Is Thailand ready to adjust to those as they change? Definitely. I think everybody talks about supply chains these days are not about cost. It's about resilience. Yes. Resilience against all kinds of risk. And I know one thing that in my recent discussion with u leaders of government,
leaders of the private sector, they're looking at the region and looking at Thailand because in addition to our economic potential, we're also considered to be a place where uh it's we're a geopolitically safe zone right now. And that's why it's essential for us to maintain peace and stability in the region. And you know, and I'm sure that many supply chains this is uppermost in their consideration when they think about realignment. With household debt sitting at 60% GDP, an aging and also rapidly shrinking workforce, how does Thailand move forwards and sees this moment to forge a path with economic certainty? Well, every country has its tariff challenges and these are Thailand's challenges. How do we approach with, you know, we approach it with a sense of can
do attitude. I think we can resolve uh some of these challenges because um you know right now we've been given upgrade by all the rating agencies. Yes. So we're handling our macroeconomic situation and we're we're mindful that you know we need to do the some of the stimulus measures the impact from the Middle East crisis is still with us but at the same time we're mindful that we have to cannot go beyond a certain ceiling. Mhm. And so and secondly, we have to try to rely on domestic sources of borrowing as much as possible. Yeah. And the other the those we are aging society. We have to ensure that uh those who are the retirees are not retiring.
They still have means to earn a living. you know we have programs so that they can upskill or reskill and also for the young people you know it's also essential that they also develop the skills that are needed in this days this age of digital economy AI what would you like Thailand's global role to look like in 5 to 10 years from now well Thailand I think everybody considers Thailand a nice friendly country M you still want to be that nice friendly country welcoming to foreign visitors you know having you know all these attraction Thai food and but at the same time we have we cannot be sitting still.
We have to modernize we make sure we have to make sure that our economy remains dynamic and that requires a lot of reform and restructuring. We want to be seen as not just a nice country but also a dynamic country. But most importantly, we want to be seen as a responsible country. That means not just thinking of ourselves. Thinking of the world, thinking of the international community, how we can contribute to making the a world peaceful, better and safer place. We talk about global communities and governments coming together. You know, what do you think is the first priority which people need to address to make the world a better place?
First, let's get the rulebased international system back on track. Yeah, we need international cooperation because we face so many challenges. You know, nobody can go it alone. That's the first thing to restore multilateralism. Second, of course, there are immediate challenges like climate change. We don't know what is the next black swan, when another pandemics will happen. But our main concern right now is the threats coming from cyerspace. Yes. You know, and these are transnational crime of all sorts. But our main concern right now is the threat of online scams and in this region is we have to admit is the center.
Thank you so much for joining us on the world conversation on Euro News today. What a pleasure to meet you. Yes, thank you very much. Thank you.
