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- It's like some really unflattering thing. - And of course they tag you. (upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to Outside the Fox, where we explore what's happening online and why it matters. I'm Kim Horcher. - And I'm Steve Flavin. And in honor of this festive season, we are talking about technology that actually helps us stay present and connected during the holidays. Speaking of which we look so festive. - I know. - It's like we're super villains taking over Christmas. - This could be a mood, you know?
Just wearing all black to your cute holiday gatherings, - You know, like the winter is coming. - Yeah, you know, it's to remind you that winter isn't all Holly jolly. It can also be harsh and stark. - Well, what are your plans for the holidays? - I haven't quite decided if I'm gonna stay home or maybe take a quick road trip to the Bay Area. - Oh, that's fun. Okay, well if you do let me know. 'Cause I, you know, I grew up there, so. - So you know everything. - [Steve] I know everything. - I need to know.
- Well, you know. More than most I would say. But yeah, my partner and I are gonna visit my family in the northwest, so at least we're on the same coast. - Yeah. - But yeah, that'll be nice. It'll be a little change of scenery in terms of weather. A little colder probably than here in LA. - I am a rare local to LA. So I think it's cold enough as it is and apparently it's not that cold, but I wanna get into technology now. So people have been using technology to keep in touch over the holidays or connect with each other
or enhanced the holidays for a while. Did you ever get from maybe a family member or an older person you knew one of those typed up, year-end newsletters? - Definitely. I think we can all kind of relate to that. I do actually, I have some friends that do a, they send Christmas cards, but then they also have like a QR code where it'll take you to a, like a live journal. - What? Oh, like a blog. - I don't know if it's literally a live journal, but it's like a blog entry, yeah. Where it's all typed up. And I actually really look forward to those because, you know, we're not super,
you know, in touch, you know, every once in a while. But it's nice to just hear about what they're up to. And these days I'm not as, you know, involved in social media, so. - I was about to say, you're not chronically online. - No, not necessarily. - So that would be a news update for you. - So it is interesting though where I feel like, and maybe this is where you were going with it, is that it seems like it's less necessary to do those kinds of updates now that we have social media and that we are kind of all up in each other's lives and we see vacation photos and, you know, we get the life updates.
- Well, I think it might just be from a bygone era at this point. - You know, I will never not enjoy a good handwritten card. And it's something that I try to keep in mind when I am sending things to people. Like just, even if it's a short message, just that little extra like human element I think goes a long way. - My grandma used to type them up on her old typewriter. - Oh wow, okay. - Yeah, pre word processor. - But that's also kind of like a, like, I dunno, there's something tactile about that though.
- Well, then she would just go take it to Staples or something and get copies. - Okay, all right. - So she's not copying, you know, her handwriting, 20 of them on her own, - Speaking of sending things to people and just like the general season, in terms of gift giving, I feel like I go back and forth on this with my family a lot. Are you a gift giver or are you more like someone who is into experiences? - Well, I like experiences, but if I have a family member whose love language is receiving gifts, of which I have a few, then I get them gifts. But personally I prefer to plan a trip maybe. That's what I do with my significant other
and have been for years because, you know, I think we bought ourselves too much garbage one year and realized neither of us wants this. - Yep. - And we're just doing it, why? Because the holiday said to do it. Why do this? You gotta question tradition sometimes. - Yeah, you do get a little bit of a dopamine rush from opening presents, especially if it's like you're connected to a nostalgic, you know, childhood memory of it. But at the end of the day, I don't know, I'm a grown adult.
I can buy things. It's not hard to convince myself to, you know. - Get a little treat. - Get a little treat, treat yourself whenever, you know, the time arises. But especially as I'm navigating a relatively, you know, new relationship and like figuring out like what is our thing every year. And we're finding that, yeah, surrounding ourselves with stuff is not necessarily, you know, the most rewarding and, you know, we can treat ourselves throughout the year. - Yeah. - Little presents. And, you know, just spontaneous things that it doesn't all need to be concentrated at the end of the year.
- I think that's almost more appreciated where you say, I thought of you and I bought this for you. - [Steven] Yeah, unprompted - More so than the calendar forced me to buy you this smoking cocktail set that you don't even want. - That's that actually, like, I don't know if you incepted that into my brain. That sounds intriguing. - I have one I don't use. Do you want it? - Please, yeah. We should do a white elephant gift exchange on camera live. - I actually go to a white elephant party where the rule is you have to bring something you got for free.
- Oh, okay. - Sometime during the year. So I have like a few Blu-ray sets that I received that I didn't want, or like swag from conventions or whatever. Or it's like a jumbo t-shirt that has an anime on it that I don't watch, things like that. - I tried to do that with my family last year where like, we all agreed as a family we're like, we don't wanna be drowning in stuff, so why don't we do like a white elephant? My family had actually never done one before. It seems like I've only ever done them in like a workplace context. So I'm like, okay, the rules are, it's like, ideally it should be something inexpensive, you know?
It's like, free like, that's a cool, - It makes it very funny. - Yeah, and because it's like, then it can like vary wildly in terms of like what kind of swag that you have access to and like what you wanna part with, which can make like the stealing of the gifts like, you know, is a little bit more stakes. But you know, like, let's say it's like $20 and they kept wanting to like raise the cost of, and it's like, no, the whole point of it is like, it's an object, you know? It's not like we're gonna cherish this for the rest of our lives, but at the same time it's like, do we really need to be doing this?
It's like, it's a game kind of, but it feels. - It's the thrill of the game. - Yeah. - You gotta chase it and then be like, I don't want this. - Yeah, that's for me is like, I feel like the stealing of the gifts is like the fun part, you know? And then it's like, here, if you want to like, you know, let bygones be bygones. - I've done that more than once. - Well, why don't we pivot from that and talk about, you know, other things that keep us connected during the holidays, which is media and, you know, movies and TV.
My family is definitely one where the TV's always on, for better or worse, and like people are watching movies and TV shows. I'm still a little salty about this and I have ranted about this in our other show, Hot Takes, but "Stranger Things" is stressing me out with this release schedule where they're. - It's designed to watch with your family. - Yeah, but there, but my family doesn't watch it, so that means I need to find time to.
- That's fully the problem, which is they expect you to watch it, you know, on Thanksgiving break. I think drop two is what? Christmas day? - Christmas Day, yeah. - Drop three is New Year's. And inevitably there's gonna be someone in your family who doesn't watch this. And then I've seen some reaction videos already where people are like, who is Vector? Why is he killing these children? - You did a recap video for that. - I did. - [Steven] Yeah, okay. - I was paid by one of my other jobs to watch all of "Stranger Things," which was over 35 hours.
- Oh wow. - And recap it into a 20 minute video. - [Steven] Okay. - So check it out. And I hope you don't care about minor characters. I mean, when we were looking at different movies or TV or whatever, like, and maybe you have a tradition to watch a certain thing, it's become a little bit less prevalent. I think "Stranger Things" is certainly an anomaly. - Because we have less of a monoculture. - Yeah. - You may recall when "Game of Thrones" was on, almost everyone was sitting at Sunday at that specific time to watch "Game of Thrones."
But now we're pretty segmented. We're watching different things at different times and it's a little bit more rare. - Yeah, entertainment's very fragmented these days and across multiple platforms. And you know, it's also like Oscar season or Oscar bait season. So like a lot of the awards contenders are in theaters. I, just speaking for myself, I'm not super stoked about a lot of the contenders that are out this year. I don't know, maybe I just need more word of mouth, like people, you know, telling me to go see some stuff. - I will say that award nominations do make me watch certain things that I haven't picked up yet.
Like, there's a few on the list where I thought, I need to actually watch this. I said I wanted to watch it and now I will. - So, yeah. Well, speaking of movies in the theater, did you see "Wicked?" - I did, and it was a nightmare. People forgot how to act in theaters. - Oh my. - And there was a lot of getting up and sitting down and talking during the movie and being on your phone during the movie. And that is fine in your home, but you cannot do that in the theater. That's my opinion.
I need to be closer to a Cinephile theater, I think, because they're better sticklers about that. - Yeah, I have no qualms about telling people to be quiet or put their phones away. Like, maybe that's to my detriment. I've definitely been with people who are a little bit embarrassed at my vigilantism. - I would appreciate it. I've shushed children before. - [Steven] Yeah. - I'm cool with it. - Yeah, we should see more movies together, I think.
- All right, let's watch a really depressing Oscar baby. - We would be enablers. - All right, so there's a lot of festivities going on, parties, the same four songs over and over, family, friends. But it can be a lot sometimes, especially if you are kind of introverted. But I think technology can help in that way as well if you apply it the right way. Which I wanna remind that, you know, you could go online and spend some time with friends. There's a lot of people who necessarily, don't necessarily have plans. So I've done this before where I've had a Twitch stream where I screened a really bad movie and I thought no one would be there, but plenty of people were there.
Maybe they needed an escape from whatever's going on in their lives and just do something real dumb, but a little festive at the same time. - So you mentioned a bad movie. - [Kim] Yeah. - What bad movie are you talking about? - It was a movie called, I wrote it down, "Rapsittie Street Kids: Believe in Santa." It aired on the CW I think once in the early 00's. - Okay. It inexplicably stars, Mark Hamill, Jody Benson, Phil LaMarr, Paige O'Hara, that's two Disney princesses.
- Okay. - And one Luke Skywalker. - It's like kind of a stacked cast. - Yeah, and it's the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life. It's back before we understood that CG should maybe look somewhat realistic- - Or at least like thoughtfully, artistically, like, you know, art directive. - I mean, none of it's good. The writing, well, the voice acting is good because the cast is like, you can't beat that cast, but everything about it is awful. So, you know, if you can't have a genuine heartwarming moment,
watch something so, so, so bad that it comes back around the other way. - Oh, a hundred percent. I've definitely had years where I didn't have as much going on during the holidays. And I think that having release valves like that are really nice and allow that communal experience when you can't necessarily get together in person. - It's like the old internet almost, where you can still connect genuinely using technology. - I'm trying to think if I have something comparable on that front. Something I enjoy are the Jackbox video games. - Oh yeah. And that's great for like a, I mean, we just had Thanksgiving, but like a Friendsgiving, you know, situation is,
or any kind of a party, New Year's Eve party, I guess, would be good for that. It's not exactly the most family friendly kind of games. Although my family is pretty irreverent, so, you know, we get away with it in my family. - Yeah, it's like that game just godes you into saying something really inappropriate no matter the game. Yeah, I played that a lot during quarantine pandemic days. And it kind of reminds me of that. So I try to stay away from it now. - [Steve] Oh, yeah. - Unfortunately. - [Steve] Yeah. - But there's lots of good couch co-op Overcooked is good if you like yelling.
"It Takes Two," which is one of the best games I've ever played. It's about a couple thinking about divorce and I won't spoil where it goes, but, you know, you gotta work together in some things. But there are plenty of great Couch co-op games that fun can be had, even if you have a hard time talking to whoever you're with. - Something I just thought of, which is a bit of a pivot from what we were just talking about. But you know, in, you know, gatherings for the holidays, whether it's with friends and family, the cameras are out, everything is documented these days. Everything tends to end up on social media.
It's interesting how in these times it seems like we increasingly need to develop a kind of etiquette for when we capture and post those things. And I'm curious if you have any thoughts around that, just in your own experiences. - Yes, I would like my older relatives to stop posting pictures of me eating on Facebook, but it's always like, it's like some really unflattering thing. - And of course they tag you. - Of course, they do. Well I don't, and I don't see it because I don't really use Facebook. So it'll be there for weeks - Just to bring a parallel between, you know, events that Mozilla has produced where we have a policy
where if you don't wanna appear on camera, we have a separate color, like employee badge. Oh really? - We'll have, you know, our crew capturing footage and you know, we usually do like a little sizzle reel at the end of the event, but if you don't wanna be on camera, it's kind of hard in the moment to determine, you know, who doesn't wanna be on it. So when we're sifting through the footage and we see someone, oh, they have a red badge on or whatever that color is, I don't think it's always red, but, you know, so that's possibly something to consider in larger gatherings where, you know, you're not necessarily having, you know, conversations with every single person.
Maybe there's a color coded, you know, like system of like a pin or you know, wearing something. So, you know, you'd prefer to not have those images online. - I like that because people have boundaries and I think often during the holiday season or any family gathering, those boundaries get stomped on and forgotten. And I think it's important to be mindful of, you know, maybe everyone is not exactly as comfortable with sharing everything as you are. - With a lot of things, it's better to err on the side of either asking people or just not posting it at all.
Save it for a group chat. You know, it's like. - There you go, that's what its for. - These days I feel like that's enough. - But sometimes someone in the group will share it. - That is true, that is true. I dunno, I always just, and maybe this is because, you know, you and I are on camera all the time. I just always kind of assume that if it exists in digital form, someone's gonna see it somewhere. And so the moral is you always have to be camera ready.
- No, no, it's not, even if you. - That is not the moral, not the moral. - No matter your level of comfort and engagement with the holiday, I think it's important to remember other people's boundaries and be sure to use tech in a way that enhances the holidays. Like maybe knowing when to use your screen and when not to use your screen. - Yeah, yeah. I have a rule. No screens at the dinner table. I feel like that's, it's kind of rude. Whether I'm having, you know, a one-on-one dinner with somebody or like in a group setting, I just feel like having devices when we're all supposed
to be together and having a meal is not ideal. - Well, yeah, probably. You should probably talk to them. - Or, I mean, I guess the one exception would be like if we're sharing photos or something or like, hey, look at this thing. - I was gonna say, that's what it always turns into. - [Steve] Yeah. - Because you say no screens and they're like, watch this video of so and so's. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Track me. - Oh. I mean, it's a little bit of a pet peeve for me. I cannot stand videos in like public places.
Like put your device away, like let's watch it later. - Public transit must be really hard for you. - I mean, I just wear noise canceling headphones, you know? - Because people love their tinny little speakers. - It's a cone of silence. I get that in all the time in elevators where people are like on the phone or they're just like watching stuff like with no headphones and I'm like, you know, like headphones have been a thing for decades now. Like you don't even need fancy headphones, just like. - Don't get me started on this.
You ever go hiking and some jerk has a bullet speaker? - Oh God. - Not only do you hear their music, you hear it loud. People. - [Steve] Alas. - Well, happy holidays. - Well, just to bring it back around to, you know, the Firefox of it all, you know, which is why we're here. At Mozilla, we support tech that respects boundaries and makes connection stronger. We are really big about choice and agency. So I think all of that extends into whatever our holiday gatherings are or any gathering really in terms of just being courteous to those around us.
- That ideal is a big reason why I am here. I love it. I agree with it so much and we do need to remember those things in, you know, a chaotic holiday season, but also in the chaos of everyday life as well. - Absolutely. And on that note, that is all the time that we have for this episode, but we really wanna know what are you doing during the holidays and does it involve binging "Stranger Things?" Hit us up in the comments. - Yeah, yeah. I will be. Make sure to subscribe to the channel and be sure to download Firefox because you know it's the best.
We'll see you next time and-- - [Kim And Steve] Happy Holidays. (soft music)
