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What's going on with Donald Trump's ambassadors? Traditionally, you're not supposed to notice a diplomat. Ambassadors tend to keep a low profile, but it seems some of Trump's picks do not follow that norm. On Tuesday, Guilfoyle resigned from her position as ambassador in Greece after a financial scandal. Her tenure in Athens was marked by high-profile late nights, general all-round putting on the ritz, lots of socializing. And it's not just Guilfoyle. US envoys around the world have sparked these diplomatic disputes and controversies, and in some cases they've even appeared to step beyond the traditional boundaries of their roles.
Today on the show, we're joined by Humera Pamuk, who's a senior White House correspondent for Reuters based in Washington, and she's also covered foreign policy in the capital for 7 years. From the BBC, I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. And I'm Tristan Redman in London. Welcome to The Global Story on YouTube. Thank you, Humera, for joining us on the show. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Great to have you with us, Humera. Humera, we are having this conversation with you in the aftermath of these headlines we have seen about the US ambassador to Greece who has been in the midst of I think it is fair to say a
scandal following some pretty serious allegations that were first raised by the Wall Street Journal. But before we get into those, I think it's worth just explaining who this person is. Who's Kimberly Guilfoyle? Kimberly Guilfoyle is um President Trump's son's ex-girlfriend and fiance. They were dating during the first Trump administration, um and then later they broke up. President Trump nominated Kimberly Guilfoyle for US ambassador to Greece in December 2024. She was officially confirmed by the Senate in September 2025 and more than a year later here we are talking about her departure. I think she's had quite an evolution um
in her career. She was uh Gavin Newsom's former wife. Uh Gavin Newsom's ex-wife, you know, famously very now left governor of California. She's also former Fox News host. And the way I often knew of her, Kimberly, is that she was a quite loyal surrogate to President Trump in his many runs to the presidency. You know, I remember seeing her speak at the Republican conventions. She would often rile up the crowd. Ladies and gentlemen, LEADERS AND FIGHTERS FOR FREEDOM and liberty and the American dream, the best is yet to come.
She was a passionate ardent supporter of President Trump's in her own right. HIS PROMISE WAS TO PUT America first and he has. I mean, when I saw her being nominated, I remember thinking, "Wow, that's an interesting appointee." I was surprised, I must admit, not just because she's a political appointee. We see presidents do this all the time, Democratic and Republican. But she had no um prior diplomatic experience that would actually make her qualified for that job. Having said that, um she was almost family uh per her relationship with uh president's son.
I've known this woman, although she's very young yet, I've known her for a long time. Uh she came here and she loves our country and she loves Greece and now she's going to be the future ambassador to the Hellenic Republic, Kimberly Guilfoyle. So, in a way, that and her loyalty to the president just qualified her for that job. So, she landed in Greece uh late 2025, um immediately become a bit of a sensation, but you see, diplomacy is uh it focuses on the conversations behind the scenes, the maneuvering, and the details that a lot of the time the public doesn't see. Whereas, her, she was a very visible figure. She was very public. She liked that. There was a celebrity element
to it that you don't typically see in a US ambassador. So, how did she get into hot water, Humera? Well, according to uh excellent Wall Street Journal reporting, she had solicited a hundred thousand dollars from a Trump do- donor and a former congressional candidate to pay for her Amex credit card. Allegedly. Um this was ahead of her confirmation hearing last year. It's really damning because Wall Street Journal had the te- had her texts. And in those texts, you see her addressing this Trump donor as, "Honey, can you please do this?" So, there's like really striking language. And there's been occasions where she is cautioning him not to put things in writing. And then in other in the
later updates of the story, um she It's been reported that she had also accepted private jet travel, hospitality at some of Europe's most expensive hotels from a Greek shipping magnate. And there seems to be this constant promise by her to various people that I am going to make you rich. That somehow, if you help me, I am going to use my power in your benefit. Which is not obviously usual conduct of a US ambassador at all. We should note that uh Kimberly Guilfoyle's lawyers have disputed the authenticity of those messages. They issued a statement saying that this congressional candidate owed Kimberly Guilfoyle some $150,000 for speeches and prior consulting work
that she did for him long before her ambassadorship. It happened last year though, Humer. It's only just coming out now with this Wall Street Journal reporting. Yeah, I think one of them dropped on the same day that Secretary Rubio was paying a visit to Athens. Um, I think this is really important because we also have our own reporting that these stories have unnerved a little bit Secretary Rubio's officials. He was set to give a very big speech in Athens with the background Acropolis. Distinguished guests, the Secretary of State of the United States of America, Marco Rubio.
It was going to be focused on Western Civilization. As you know, that's a big theme for the Trump administration. There are there are great ruins all across the world. In many cases, they are places where history seems to have exhausted itself. I've been on these trips, many dozens of these trips. These trips are choreographed like with every single little detail. Where will the principal walk? What will happen? What would it be if it would be windy, for example? How would it look? So, there is like a lot of theatrics. And then he got questions about Kimberly Guilfoyle, you're saying, when he landed?
Yes. So, there was a lot of concern among the officials that these stories may cast a shadow on his speech. I think his speech went well, but on the tarmac the next day, journalists asked about this. Sir, do you have anything new on the reporting from the Wall Street Journal that Ambassador Guilfoyle had sought funds guys, let me tell you something, okay? You guys are going to ask me this, you're going to ask me again in Portugal. I know the game, okay? He dodged and he dismissed.
Like, our job is not to respond every time someone decides to give the media something without any advanced warning, without any having any chance to look at it and see what's in there. But back in Washington, his team was consulting with the White House team. We know that now. And the president was getting really edgy. I just heard about it. Too bad. I mean, I don't know. She's She's an ambassador. Uh I just heard a little bit about it. I don't know too much, but she was always very nice. We understand the president was really annoyed by the headlines. Again, at this point in time, while he's on campaign trail.
She was almost a member of your family. How surprised were you to learn about these allegations? What did you think of that? wasn't a member of my family. She I guess dated my son a long time ago, but she wasn't now. And that's that's how the what new White House secretary read this piece of paper, a couple of lines that she was clearly given by the president in yesterday's briefing. Uh we have asked Ambassador Guilfoyle to resign. She has been a wonderful asset to the team, and we wish her well. Humera, officially speaking, Kimberly Guilfoyle resigned.
Um but I have to ask the classic uh journalistic question. Um did she jump or was she pushed? I think it's pretty clear she was pushed. It's a cautionary tale. No matter how important you think you are, if the moment that you start becoming a liability for the president at a really, really sensitive time, this is what happens. Mhm. Well, Humera, um Kimberly Guilfoyle is not the only member of the US uh diplomatic corps who has been under scrutiny recently. There is also uh Charles Kushner, who's the Trump administration's ambassador in Paris, the ambassador to France. Now, Charles Kushner is not almost family, he is actually family. He is Jared Kushner's father.
The father of his son-in-law, yes. Bonjour, my name is Charles Kushner. I'm very proud to have been selected by President Trump to be the ambassador to the French Republic. We can't talk about Charles Kushner and his appointment in Paris without talking about his let's say colorful past which put some noses out of joint when Kushner was appointed in Paris. So, Kushner has a criminal conviction. He pleaded guilty in the early 2000s. He served time in jail on counts of witness tampering, illegal campaign contributions, and tax evasion. Most colorfully, Kushner he played guilty. He was accused of in fact setting up a honey pot sting with a prostitute
filming a sex tape of his own brother-in-law having sex with a prostitute and then using that sex tape to according to prosecutors attempt to blackmail his own sister. I did not know the extent of that. These were incredibly damaging allegations which Kushner served time in jail for. Though in his first term, Trump pardoned him, no? Trump pardoned Kushner in 2020. My misjudgment and mistake was over 20 years ago. Since then I've been pardoned by President Trump, but I don't sit here before you today and tell you I'm a perfect person. I am not a perfect person.
But when Kushner was subsequently appointed to the ambassadorship in Paris, people in France, or some people were should we say not happy that Mr. Kushner was to be the ambassador. Cuz you're correct. It is it is a big responsibility this ambassadorship as it is for all of us. Um but I think that my past mistakes actually make me better with my judgement, better in my view of life, better in my values uh to really make me more qualified to do this job. I think perhaps there is an element of President Trump wanting to do a gesture um to Charles Kushner. he's been very supportive and this administration really doesn't care about how it looks and how it comes
across and whether this is the tradition, these are just not considerations for them. This is an important person. He will be loyal to me and he will carry out my agenda. I can imagine the president picked him that way. Once Kushner was installed in Paris, he then continued to make waves because he got involved in a very particular case. And France is summoning US Ambassador Charles Kushner to protest comments made by the Trump administration over the death of a far-right activist Quentin Duronk. And the French government were unhappy that Kushner got involved in this ongoing criminal investigation um because they saw this as interference from a foreign diplomat.
The French government's move is a reaction to a statement by the State Department's counterterrorism bureau posted on X that violent radical leftism is on the rise and its role in Duronk's death demonstrates the threat it poses to public safety. Charles Kushner has been banned from meeting members of the French government. It comes after he was summoned and did not show up for a meeting over comments he made on the killing of French far-right activist, Quentin Durance. I've never seen a diplomat not show up for summons. So, that's very unusual. But, the diplomatic norm is that a summons is a serious move by the host government. When you are summoned, you do show up, and then they tell you
what they need to tell you. Most of the time, sometimes you make um you sort it out. Sometimes you don't sort it out. You take your summons, and you go back. Is he still banned, or has that situation now been rectified? No, that situation has been sorted out within like 24 hours. So, there was actually no consequences, you're saying? There wasn't, no. Again, it shows that how much Ambassador felt emboldened. Uh but, at the same time, um did it cause a lasting damage in the bilateral relationship? I don't think so, because I think foreign governments have accepted that this administration
deals with diplomacy in a very different way, and there are some advantages to it. That's really intriguing when you say there are some advantages to this approach to diplomacy. What have you heard? Well, I'm not going to tell which country, but one country who does have who does enjoy um very good relations with US, uh a diplomat from that country told me, "You know what? We actually prefer this. Why do I have to deal with all of this bureaucracy? Um some of these people at the State Department, maybe he meant like civil servants. Um why do I have to deal with them when I can just pick up the phone and call Jared Kushner? When I can pick up the phone and speak with Steve Witkoff, and
maybe he's going to put the president on the phone, and whatever we want from US is going to be decided and dealt with right on the spot. If I have to deal with the State Department, then, you know, I'm going to meet my counterpart, we're going to have a meeting, and we're going to decide on another meeting to have another meeting, and it's going to take like maybe 4 months. But So, it's efficient. It's streamlined. Right, exactly. But I mean, there are some disadvantages to it as well. So, you see a scramble in DC because every foreign government now tries to operate this way.
They are trying to get phone numbers. I'm sure everybody has them now by now since it's been like 18 months. Um and the president's phone number especially seems to be like, you know, all across town. Um but at the start, it was a real scramble. It was fascinating to witness, really. Like I've had foreign diplomats come to me and say, "I'm I'm trying to reach so-and-so, let's say a cabinet member, and I can't. Who is like his top aid? How do I reach that person? Do you have their Asking you, Humaira. I'm sure they've asked to a lot of other journalists as well. I'm curious what uh has intrigued you, Humaira, because Charles Kushner is far from the only ambassador to have um angered his host, had a bit of a
strained relationship with his host country. I'm curious what stood out to you. Well, certainly there's been other characters as well. Um the US ambassador in Warsaw, for example, had a bit of a dispute with the with Poland's parliament speaker. The US ambassador to Poland announced that the United States is cutting ties with the speaker of the Polish parliament, triggering political fallout. Uh the parliament speaker criticized President Trump's policies. He didn't support uh his Nobel Peace Prize ambitions. And so, there was like this back and forth with um the ambassador cut off contact with the parliament speaker. Um And then in Italy
US Ambassador to Italy Tilman Fertitta arrived in Trieste aboard his 77 meter yacht Boardwalk as part of a tour celebrating the 250th anniversary of the United States. We have seen some protests in Venice against US Ambassador to Italy. He arrived in the city with his super yacht and you know Oh wow. He called it freedom 250 coastal diplomacy tour. Hello, I'm Ambassador Tilman Fertitta and I'm excited to tell you about our coastal diplomacy 250 as we celebrate America's 250th anniversary. Together we'll highlight the ties that have
connected our countries for generations. I'm looking so forward to meeting Italians across the country and seeing what connects our two countries that unite us together. People thought that wasn't the greatest idea at the time when a lot of people in the world are suffering from high prices largely due to the Iran war that United States has started. So that didn't sit really well with the protesters in Venice. In Canada we had tens of thousands of people sign a petition to for US Ambassador to Canada to be declared persona non grata.
The petition says that he should be declared a persona non grata for undermining the Canadian US diplomatic relationship. This includes what some viewed as an endorsement of Trump's threats to annex Canada. He defended his tariffs which are not good at all for the US Canada bilateral relationship. So a lot of people wanted him gone. I'm not going to try to analyze Canadians anymore, okay? The um if they want to be mad about uh the sectoral tariffs which are totally legitimate I'm disappointed that I came to Canada, a Canada that it is very, very difficult
to find Canadians who are passionate about the American-Canadian relationship. Um, so these are some of the examples of unconventional US ambassadors faced some sort of backlash or have gotten involved in this unusual dispute with their host governments, which we usually typically don't see in other administrations. We talk about someone like Charles Kushner who may have angered his host country or some in his host country. My question is how unusual is that in the world of diplomacy? Because ultimately, it sounds like what people were angered by is the president's agenda. This focus on the far right, this focus on Western civilization. And in the world of diplomacy, is that what they are prioritized to do?
Carry out the president's agenda. That is their task. That's what they're supposed to do. So, it's a really good question because typically under previous administrations, I've seen some diplomats who are maybe a little bit too differential to their host country. But in Trump administration's case, the administration's approach and objectives when it comes to Europe are unconventional and different from previous administrations. This administration really openly offers support for far-right governments around the world. President Trump endorses right-wing, conservative, or far-right candidates. Um, US government didn't do that quite openly.
Um, although you would find some people contesting that. But Hamera, wouldn't if a European diplomat were sitting here with us, wouldn't they say there is a fine line or maybe even not that fine line, maybe quite a stark line um between promoting the agenda of your home government and on the other hand interfering in the domestic affairs of your host country. Some people in France have said quite clearly it's not up to Charles Kushner to get involved in for example, an ongoing criminal investigation about a murder in Lyon, let alone the domestic political affairs of France. I guess there is no criteria and it's at will because they wanted to interfere in that one, right? Because I we actually asked we were asking at the
beginning of the administration quite a few human rights related questions to administration officials, especially when they were decimating USAID and USAID money that's going to independent media in Europe and things like that. And their answer was, we don't want to interfere in the internal affairs of these countries. But on this one the ambassador and I suppose Washington felt strongly about it, so they wanted to say something. So, the criteria is whatever is their priority. You alluded to this fact earlier that he's selected a number of them as presidential appointees. I'm not making a judgment call on whether that is actually the way diplomatically it ought to be done, but it is the way that many
presidents, both Democrat and Republican have operated in the past. They give these really cush ambassadorships to people who are loyal political advisers or people who have donated big sums to their campaigns. So, how unconventional is what we are seeing? So, in US administrations spanning nearly 50 years, career diplomats have typically made up between 57% and 74% of ambassadors. That is according to American Foreign Service Association. But, in Trump's second term, about 9% of his ambassadorial appointees are career diplomats. That is a dramatic decline. Wow. That is a dramatic metric, and it's a massive decline in the institutional expertise, uh which has historically guided US diplomacy. So, I think the nuance here, Esme, is that it's not so
much about the individuals. It is not unprecedented for US presidents to appoint their donors, their friends, aids, family without diplomatic experience to these ambassador roles. That has happened in the past. The difference with this administration is those ambassadors have worked and functioned through the American bureaucracy. They used the State Department. They acted like a traditional ambassador. They did the diplomacy through the post and the channels of the host government, right? So, I think that is the biggest difference because President Trump runs a very centralized government. In DC, when it comes to decisions of are we going to restart the war with Iran? Are
we going to cut intelligence sharing with Ukraine? Those decisions are known by less than 10 people. And that is not the typical way US government functions. You have the National Security Council bringing together the institutions, State Department, Pentagon, White House people, whoever is a stakeholder in that decision, and they have interagency meetings. In the first 6-8 months of this administration, there were no interagency meetings. So, the State Department actually like the people who used to be typically in the know about Ukraine, Iran, XYZ, actually were not at all in the know what was being discussed at the White House, right? And that includes that extends to how ambassadors work, as well.
The previous ones work through the system. These what These guys just pick up the phone, call the president, shall we do this? Is this And everybody knows that now. So, that's why everybody who wants to do business, who wants to advance their interests, they just bypass the American institutions, and they call the person, and they call the White House, is our thing being done? Is this in front of the president? And that's how it's done. I think that is the biggest difference. What is the corresponding impact on the ground, um as far as the United States, how it's viewed by its partner countries around the world?
I think it's viewed as a more chaotic entity. I must say this is eased a little bit. And I am going to credit Secretary Rubio on this, because I think the fact that he wears this dual hat as the National Security Advisor, and is one of has become one of the most trusted aids to President Trump, and he also heads the State Department as US Secretary of State. I think his presence and his dual hat has stabilized this a little bit. But I think the first impact was chaos, and just not really knowing who is my counterpart, how do we decide these things. And there has been occasions, and we've reported this in our Reuters special report about diplomacy, there has been occasions where sometimes State Department officials
found out about things that they would have normally known from their counterparts. That's disruptive. Well, on that note, Humera, thank you for joining us on the show. We really appreciate it. Yeah, Humera, it's been fascinating hearing your thoughts on this. Thanks for having me. That was Humera Pamuk with Reuters. And that's it for the Global Story on YouTube today. Thanks as always for spending some time with us. And a reminder that if you appreciated our show, you can always find more from us as an audio podcast. That's right. We are also an audio show. Just search for The Global Story on bbc.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
