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Two weeks on from being chucked out of the playoffs, why have we seen no fall guys at Southampton? Spygate. Remember Spygate? The written reasons of the league's arbitration panel for the expulsion of Southampton have been published. Junior members of staff told the independent disciplinary commission how head coach Tonda Eert had placed them quotes under extreme pressure to carry out a task they were clearly uncomfortable with doing and felt was morally wrong. In the written reason, Southampton's condith was spying against Oxford. Ipsswitch Burough was described as a contrived and determined plan from the top down which head coach Echert had approved. We're going to hear from T
Eert in a second, but the owner Dragon Solac spoke to Southampton's official social media. Rules have been broken. There must be a consequence and I'll take responsibility for that. But I also believe the sanction imposed is grossly disproportionate. The level of breach combined with the outcome of previous cases makes this feel incredibly harsh. His defense as well as the players who suffer the most, many of whom had already made arrangements for Wembley once the semi-finals had been gone ahead. I also believe that the competition itself loses credibility suggesting that decisions made off the pitch can see result on the field simply wiped out.
This cannot be good for the game. As I have said, I want to close this chapter and look ahead. And I want to look ahead together as one, including Tonda and his staff. T's period as our head coach has been a success so far. Our form during 2026 has been remarkable and we believe he is the man to take us forward. As a board, we are fully behind him and together we only have one objective. We want promotion back to Premier League. Tonda echer stays. Tonda echer Simon addressed his situation as well. When I worked in Italy for over four years, every starting lineup that we've chosen for the games was always out in the media before games. And the reason is that our training sessions,
especially the ones before games, have always been observed have always been observed from media and have always been opponent teams that we came up against. Gadula has spoken about this at his time at Bayern Munich that it has been common practice in Germany to observe training sessions knowing that other teams would do the same. I don't want to say this to excuse anything that we have done. I just want to give you context in the way that I grew up in the football world. There's different rules in England. There's different rules from the EFL and I should have known them. I am a young coach.
I have made a mistake and I take full responsibility. I want to thank Draan and the board for the support especially in times like this with everything that I have said without script and without predefined statement speaking to you from the heart. I hope that you have an overview of what has happened over the last weeks and I hope that over time you can understand and forgive and I hope to see you all soon. They could have been in the Premier League by now. Simon, would you have sacked him? Would I have sacked him? Um, well, they've been sanctioned. So, the manager can clearly manage. So, what you going to do? Double whammy yourself now. What is the point of
falling upon your sword now? you've been sanctioned. I might have said I might have if there was a trade-off to be had with the EFL, which was if I sack my manager, do I keep my place in the playoff final? That's like pleading with a copper on the side of the road, but he tells you he's going to give a speeding ticket and then he wants you to kiss his backside for 5 minutes. Well, no, I'll kiss you backside if I'm not getting a speeding ticket. But if I'm getting a speeding ticket, just give him a bleeding ticket. Let me go about my business. They've given the sanction. Now, clearly the manager can manage.
Clearly, the guy's a capable lad. So, why would you want to have further indications of self harm? The way to have avoided this is not to have cheated. To suggest that you didn't know is preposterous because you might not have known because of the fact that you've been working in Italy and what a wonderful role model that is where they get their biggest clubs and chuck them out the league for corruption. So I worked in Italy where my the biggest clubs have been relegated down the pyramid because they've been corrupt and we know who they are with due respect. And you're telling me that the people that signed off the expenditure for the trips, the flights and things didn't know it. So he may not have known the
specific EFL role. He may well have been conditioned to an environment. It's no good using Guardiola as an example cuz Guardiola is not being cited in British football being a cheat. You are. So they've had their two three weeks to get this together and this is their best version of it. And to suggest that the people within the confines of the business that would have been because what you've got is sporting directors over here now and you've got commercial and chief executives over here. And what the sporting directors have been able to engineer a situation is where the chief executives are idiots. They don't know anything. They just run the commercial side of things. Keep them away from the
football. And so the expenditure side of things that would have been incorporated I would imagine to have signed off things that needed to have been done whether it's flights to different parts of the country will have been signed off by people that do know the rules and have decided that those rules don't necessarily apply to Southampton because the better outcomes were there. We live in a world where I am in the camp of saying this is the playoff sanction was disproportionate. I believe it was disproportionate and so did Stephan Borton when we discussed it the other day. I thought it was harsh. But we also live in a world where they'll tell you empfhatically that marginal gains make a
difference. So when you're suggesting that they don't for the purpose of this conversation because it suits the narrative, Dragon doesn't have any integrity because he's prepared to on one hand argue the principle of the fact that there is um an offense here that's cheating but doesn't really value it that much. And I don't blame him because his belief is that the manager will get you to the promised land and we've been sanctioned. And I to some extent I understand why we do that. Why? Why would you find a manager? But who you doing that for? Do your fans want him fired? Probably not. They probably think, "Well, you imbecile.
You've got us in the situation, but you're a bloody good manager." Yeah, but don't you need to set an example at the football club, Simon? There is no fall guy in this. There is the full guy. The whole the bleeding club's a full guy. They've been booted out of the playoff semi-final. The chairman's a full guy. The chairman's bank not this football club for hundreds of millions of pounds. Probably borne the losses this season of permissive wages from last season. Done what he could to keep the club afloat.
changed managers, fired the previous manager, bored the cost. He's the full guy. Yeah, but the man at the center of it undoubtedly is Tonda Eker and he's not been fired. There's no consequence for him. Well, did leads. Yeah, there is. Because he could have been a Premier League manager and he could have been a Premier League manager with a great big fat salary and a great big fat reputation. Does he deserve a second chance by the standards that we've existed under? Yeah, cuz Ba got one. So we use leads as an example in suggesting that the £200,000 fine was what leads got and he didn't get smacked on the wrist. He didn't get vilified by his
own club and this hypocrisy inside football where there's some everybody in football cheats. The players cheat relentlessly and endlessly. I just listened to some whining nonsense from Anton this morning about being treated like a piece of meat because he injured himself outside of football and expects everyone to carry him for the rest of his life. Football is reset with people taking liberties. So, I'm afraid I don't believe that Southampton should have fired him unless they want a clean house for our benefit, for the integrity of the sport. But everybody goes unpunished. I know they haven't got to the Premier League.
The fans have been ridiculously punished. The owner's been ridiculously punished. The manager has been reputationally damaged and financially impacted upon. So, how much what do you want? You want absolute bloodletting. You want him out in the middle of the street and people queuing up to throw tomatoes at him. They got their punishment. They got the absolute punishment they could have got. So what we want now is we want the council culture in its absolute finite form. We want him taken out and banned for life. You know when you employed thousands and you were the employer. If anyone had made an absolute howler of a mistake, which this is, yeah, mistake people make mistakes and it's cost your business big time.
Well, depends. You'd be sacking them. Well, possibly. No, not necessarily because if he's been able to and because there's been receptive ears to it, let's just assume that recept ears are receptive. They want him to produce an outcome that means they haven't got to fire him because they like him. They can clearly say he can manage, right? So they don't really want to lose him. And they look at it and go, "Well, we've been slaughtered. We couldn't have had anything more. So why would we commit another act of self harm? We've already done one. We've been stupid. We've spied on other sides. We don't think nobody really thinks in football. Nobody really thinks that the material advantage of
watching Middlesborough. I bet you even Steve Gibson didn't until the circumstance the rules because the rules have been created on the back of a potential a set of standards that they believe underpins the value of the game. Correct. So with that in mind, so why do players cheat all the time then? Why are we why are we having to deal with simulation that was rules brought in to protect us from that? So I think with all due respect to the consequence, I'm I'm not entirely sure. What does Southampton achieve by firing their manager? Well, let's hear from the fans this morning and when I come back, I'll put some more meat in the bones as to the written reasons of the league's arbitration
panel for the expulsion of Southampton because these written reasons have been published and some of them are absolutely mind-boggling. Uh, but the fact of the matter remains, if the EFL deems it so serious, would no consequence for the manager suggest Southampton don't? And on Tonda Eert, does he deserve a second chance? Does he retain Southampton fans? Your support. No fall guys, it seems at Southampton. We heard from the owner, Dragon Solac. They'll learn from it. We heard from Tonda Eert, the manager. He stays in a job. They've all caught for it, but at the end of the day, it doesn't seem as if anyone is going to take the wrap. Um, apologies right,
left, and center. what might have been. Yes, apologies to the fans who are all set to go to a playoff final at Wembley where they would have faced Hull City. It didn't happen. Middlesborough took their place, but Hull won in the day and they go to the Premier League. But how are Southampton fans really feeling this morning on Tonda Eert? Does he deserve a second chance? Does he retain your support? Many Southampton fans calling the number 03717234. James, Southampton fan, first up. Good morning to you, mate. Um, so he stays.
Does he retain your support? Morning, James. Great show as always. Uh, yeah. Thanks. Um, he's massively dragged our badge through the mud. Um, and we've been at the center of attention for all the wrong reasons recently. Um, no one really talks about our unbeaten run anymore and no one talks about how we took it to Arsenal, Man City, and all we talk about now is this. Um, yeah, he's he's he's been found out and he's stupidly done it. Um, but I think it's taken some courage and guts to come out and talk about it and we have to praise him slightly for that. It's wrong. And like Simon says, if we sack him, what does that get us? We still got this massive fine. We still got the points
deduction that doesn't go with him. Um, so I think yeah, reading between the lines, I maybe the players have said if you get rid of him, we'll all be going as well. So I think that maybe that's why all everything's gone a bit quiet. And I think now the Dragons come out and supported him and said we're going to back him and with the squad to go forward and get promotion is that him way of saying we want to keep this group of players together. They want to play for the manager. They've seen how we done it and next year we're going to go for the automatics. Okay, Jame, what's your take on what James has just told us, Simon?
I'd be surprised if the players would have that ability to dictate to an owner based upon the behavior of their manager. And the fact that they also have lost an opportunity by the behavior of their manager and this idea that he didn't know I think is for the birds. But I am in the same place I was in the conversation that we just had. What is the purpose? Are Chelsea running around bloodletting for all the cheating that they did five, six, seven years ago? No. Mhm. Well, if Man City were convicted, would they? No. Do other clubs do things? No. So, the greatest act of harm that was done to Southampton was visited upon them by the EFL by booting them out of the biggest game in world football.
Just interestingly, in the passing when you appointed a manager, did you suggest to him, listen, check out the rules, you got to be across them. I would assume that if you provi provide a manager with a professional job, they're professional enough to do it in the first place. But we've sat here watching footballers don't even know the handball rule when they had to change the rule in the middle of the season three or four years ago because footballers didn't even know it. Yes. Yeah. Here's Charlie, big Southampton fan. Charlie, good morning.
T Eert, does he deserve a second chance in your view? Yeah, 100% Jim. Hi, Simon. Big fan. Um, first time calling in. Um, yeah, Ter 100%. what he's done at our football club. Um, in all the years that I've supported Southampton, genuinely the connection that he built with the fans, obviously what happened is wrong, but at the end of the day, is there a better option available in the Championship? I would think no. The momentum is still there. So, I think we had to back him 100%. Do you think his credibility is still intact, Charlie? Um it's difficult obviously because um like I work for a lot of Pompy fans obviously it's been quite hard for me but um yeah overall it's I think his credibility is still there because I
think to him it's obviously been common practice to what is known in other leagues and yeah obviously it's not easy um but I think at the end of the day the results still do speak for themselves. Okay Charlie thank you for that. Um, Roger, Southampton fan, are you going to tell me anything different or do you say nah, keep him in situ. He's the man. Hi, Jim. I think we've got some good synergy from the callers here. So, I'm saying yes, let's keep him. Um, I've worked at director level for quite a long time and um, firstly, can I just say I've been off most of this
year. My wife's been quite ill and your show is one of the things that really has sort of got me through. So, thank you ever so much. You guys are great. Roger, we wish you well and your wife obviously. Yeah, thank you very much. you guys honestly have really helped. Um but yeah, I think I totally agree with Simon. Um I've seen it in business all the time where people do some slippery things. Um and you even detrimental um to the business, but what comes through that is you wouldn't get rid of your best employee, the one that brings in the most sales or bonds everybody together because it's a double jeopardy. So um totally agree. Um give them a
second chance. And I think society also has to accept that sometimes you do need to give people a second chance at things. Um so yeah, so he carries on, Roger, even although it's perceived that Eker undoubtedly brought Southampton's name into disrepute. I think where I am with you, Jim, um I think he has lost some credibility and there's no question, you know, he has and I think that's for the club, him personally, his coaching team and the players to build that credibility back up. um and with the fans as well. And the only caveat I would add is he needs the fan support. If things start going badly wrong, they the fans could possibly turn on him because of his previous action.
Roger. Here's Simon briefly on that. The one thing that he will have lost and Roger's right is he will lost forbearance. So he will need to win. The owner will be expecting him to hit the ground running and expecting the team to be successful and all of this will be chip paper if in 12 months time they're sitting in the Premier League. I can tell you what he will have is he will have less forbearance in terms of if Southampton don't start well and 10 15 games into the season they haven't got 25 30 points and not looking like they're going to be pushing up the table then you're going to find yourself in a situation where he will not get the tolerance I suspect.
Sure. Roger thanks for the call. Love to your wife. Um George Middlesbran very briefly George you get a different take on this. Good morning. Uh yeah I can't believe what I'm listening to. the if I literally blatantly broke rules at work, I'd be sacked. No question. Doesn't matter how good at work you are. You're basically saying that the guy can break rules. Bear in mind, he did it three times. He didn't do it once, he did it three times. Everybody knew that it was against the rules. The rules brought in after leads. He would have been aware of that or at least somebody in the club
would have been aware of that. And it and there's also the fact that he pressured um interns to do it. Yeah. And they felt pressured. But with respect that's not a mistake but with respect not a mistake Simon but with respect first and foremost what business of yours how Southampton discipline their staff second of all they've been consequence and your opportunity was given back to you so in real terms if you break rules in environments you get warnings so if you break a rule depend upon the nature of the rule in your workplace you wouldn't get fired dependent upon the circumstance of the rule that you broke you'd be getting a warning so it isn't just a case of you break rules you get fired I'm in a situation where maybe
Steve Gibson would take the moral high ground. In fact, I believe Gibbo would and probably would have fired his manager because I think he operates on the principle of owning a football club for 30 odd years. Probably drives most people insane, but he wants to operate with a level of integrity. Well, it's cost the club a potential 250 million uplift. But that's for Southampton to worry about. That's not but that's up to Southampton. If they are prepared to oversee that and to overlook it more to the point, then really and truly the club has been sanctioned. The owner is the person that's got to bear this cost implication and the challenges that go with it and the audacity of these players potentially suing him.
What message is that sending out though? What message do you think football sends out on a daily basis when we see players cheating left, right, and centers? We see agents doing what they're doing. This holier than thou attitude that pervades football agree with that right then George before I bet you're looking them again in the championship, right? Oh yeah. And it will be a hell of a couple of games. I'll give them that because they're guaranteed to be chance of cheating and all sorts going on. True. They'll have to live with it, weren't they? Because that's that's the consequences of their behavior, isn't it? George, thanks so much for the call.
It's 10:30. More on what they did and how they did it coming up. At the moment, you know, it's life as normal for Southampton, not in the Premier League, but in the Championship. And Tonda Eert remains the man in charge of team matters. Dragon Solak says no change there. But what did they do? And we'll take some more calls on this very shortly. 03717234. Those WhatsApp messages a junior analyst sent to observe Oxford United train before their December fixture with Southampton sent a message to colleagues saying, "I didn't really have an option and wasn't provided an opportunity to say no. I was an intern and was doing what I was told." When he sent details from that session back to his boss, he received a WhatsApp message reading,
"You legend manager loved it." Upon being asked to carry out a second spying mission on Ipsswitch, he expressed concern, but was told that the boss is adamant that someone needs to go. Ahead of Middlesborough in the playoffs, Eert was particularly interested in finding out if Middlesbrough's Hayden Hackne was training or not. There were differing reports as to his fitness. Southampton's operations manager booked flights and two nights accommodation. The junior analyst intern was shown drone footage of the Middlesbrough training facilities so that he could get an idea where to stand. He flew up to Middlesbrough on Wednesday the 6th of May, but was told that Ekert was unhappy he didn't fly up
in the Tuesday so that he could see the wed training session. The junior analyst intern went back to his hotel and awaited permission from Eckert to return home. When this didn't come, he left of his own accord and caught a train. It was while he was on the train that he learned from news on the internet that Southampton had been caught spying on Middlesborough. Um, it goes on, Simon. It goes on. Before we go any further, you'll probably remember former Southampton defender who just retired last week, Josie Font, hugely respected figure in the game, had this to say on Spygate. If it was only the
manager that was involved in this situation or this the manager and his staff, I feel it's very tough to punish a club and the supporters for something that one man has done. So in my eyes, if it was the manager's decision to do that, he needs to be punished. Not the club, not the supporters, not the players. Um, obviously it is wrong what he's done. But if the board had no idea what was happening, if the players wasn't aware of what was happening, why should they be punished? Why the supporters should be punished? I don't understand. Collective responsibility, Jose, unfortunately. Well, yeah, collective responsibility. But the f the fans unfortunately are drawn into it because they support the football club at the heart of this
course. But he's saying Echer, no, no deal should go. Rob's a big Southampton fan. Do you agree, Rob, that it should be time up for Eert. Or are you of the opinion, no, it's right that he stays. No, Echart needs to go straight up. Um he's ruined the sanctity of this club. He's dragged it through the mud. You know, we're a club, you know, built on faith. Like St. Mary herself watches over our club and this guy is literally ruined it. I'm I'm ashamed to wear my Southampton shirts now because it's I'm afraid of what you know people will say. You know it before that it was all you know it's it's football banter like you were talking about yesterday. It's
just football banter. You know I give it I get it. You take it. Give take. That's what it is. But if I go ahead and make fun of your club, right, you can you're going to turn around to me and call me a cheat. And unfortunately, that's true. And that that cuts me deep. Like that like I'm not going I can't go to any games next season. I can't bring myself to do it cuz um it's it's just a massive slap in the face that they've decided to keep this guy. who's openly admitted that he's what he's done. It's it's sickening to me. You know, Rob, I'll put that to Simon. There's Rob who very genuinely and honestly is telling us what his football club means to him.
Entitled his view. Um I mean the manager has a different version of events whether we believe them or not. He says he didn't know the rules. Um do you believe that? I listen given the fact that most of them don't know the rules about anything. I wouldn't be surprised. But the people that sat signed off the expenditure that were involved, whether it was the operations manager that people refer to, they do know the rules. So have a look at them. Um, the club's been consequenced. The club has had many challenges over the years. My god, you know the ones that had Rupert Low as a chairman for Christ's sakes. If you can live through that regime, you can live
through anything. Um, let's have a look at these clubs. Let's have a look back in the past. Everyone, everyone, everyone telling that Liverpool should be pulled apart when Bruce Gobbler was accused of cheating and taking bets. These things have gone in the past. Get over it. Get on with it. These situations happen. Tandereka um is probably your best uh solution to get out of the Premier League. And if you can't bear to wear your Southampton shirt anymore, and if you feel that your club has been compromised by the actions of a perhaps an uninformed manager in an industry which is beset with cheating from top to bottom, then that's for you. And that's that's a shame for you because you'll miss out on perhaps your
football club recovering its poise, finding its way back into the Premier League. And at the end of the day, in an industry which is beset with doesn't matter how you get there, doesn't matter who tells the truth, doesn't matter how the businesses are run, it's about getting to the end game. And unfortunately, that's the real world for you. If you don't if you can't countenance that, then that's obviously your choice. It's not enforced clearly in other countries. So spying on your opponent, should they scrap the rule? I just like tapping up, isn't it? I mean, it's just a silly rule. I mean, the players talk to one another in the dress rooms. They all know what's going on in
one another's business. They all know what they're getting paid. They all know who they're going out with. They all know most things. So, in the great scheme of things and in the games that they fight on, they've never won any of them. So, the material advantage is virtually none. So, scrap it. You scrap it, not scrap it. But the point is that if you want if you believe that it's underpinning what we're saying is we're taking this holier than thou this not this caller that the industry itself is taking this holier than thou rule that once upon a time six years ago M be bulsa who openly coped to it um didn't get any real sanction and they got a 200,000 fine has now turned into the loss of a potential 250 million
opportunity. What's going on here? I tell you what's going on here. hysteria created by outlets like ourselves ramping the noise up, ramping the outrage about it, looking at it. You've just read a charge here. I couldn't care less what they said to one another. They've been found guilty. The correspondence between intern and internal management put in Southampton is irrelevant to this conversation. They've been sanctioned. Now, what we're trying to do is what we do in every walk of life is we're not happy with people apologizing. That's not necessarily true. Trevor Burch at the EFL who you respect and know but you thoroughly respect and admire
made the decision along with Rick Perry to what? At the EFL. No, they didn't. Who you respect? No, they didn't. They upheld the they didn't make any decisions. They put it in front of the independent commission who made the decision. Right. And so they represented the actions of the other 71 football clubs in the EFL to uphold a rule and they put expulsion on the table and they argued a case. But they could have got in front of Steve Gibson at Middlesbor and said, "Now, slow down. This is ridiculous. No one's getting kicked out of anything." Well, that's not their gift. It's independent commission's gift. The constitution of the rules that the clubs have put together is not it's not Trevor Burch's decision. Trevor Burch has no
say in this. The Constitution has to be uphold. The rules have to be applied and the independent commission assesses the case on its merits. Was it right to kick them out? No, it's disproportionate. But I've never I've not changed from that. Was I've I've said it's ridiculous. is like putting someone in an electric chair for shoplifting. So for pushing it, does Steve Gibson, the man at the top of the house at Middlesbrough, lack integrity? Um, would you have done what Steve Gibson did? He has no probably I would have done what he did because he has a right to be he has a right to have a view on it.
There's a rule, the rule's been broken, but the materiality of that rule is the argument that has to be put into play. Even although you knew it would be disproportionately if Southampton were chucked out, you would do what Gibson does. That's that's not his job. His job is to suggest I'm claiming he pushed for a sporting sanction. I'm I'm claiming foul. I do you know why cla you know and I know why he claimed for a sporting sanction because Southampton made an absolute holix of the way they conducted themselves. Look at their own admissions. They've turned out themselves. And by the way some of the things they're saying in some of their statements probably are ill advised as well because they're now
suggesting that the panel was made up of people that Middlesbor leaning. I mean to add insult to injury, you've probably actually gone up to Middles gone up to Middlesborough in the playoff game, had a conversation with Steve Gibson, smoothed everything over, and then did the polar opposite in public. He's a lone wolf. Those sort of things probably incited Gibbo to riot if I know the man. Who comes out of this looking good? Nobody. Hull. Southampton will be playing in the championship next season. For the record, Hull beat Middlesbr the day at Wembley. There you go. Spy game day.
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