Senate Rejects Efforts to Eliminate DOJ Anti-Weaponization Fund Amid Immigration Debate

THIS IS "BALANCE OF POWER" LIVE WASHINGTON, D.C. KAILEY: TONIGHT, VOTE-O-RAMA, A MARATHON SESSION IS UNDERWAY IN THE SENATE AS LAWMAKERS PLOW THROUGH SWEEPING IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT BILL. WE WILL SPEAK TO SENATOR CHRIS COONS OF DELAWARE AND PETE RICKETTS OF NEBRASKA. PLUS, PROGRESS STALLS. NO SIGNS OF FORWARD MOVEMENT IN U.S.-IRAN TALKS AS HEZBOLLAH REJECTS A U.S. BROKERED TRUCE IN LEBANON. THE STALL COMES ON THE HEELS OF THE WAR POWERS RESOLUTION PASSING IN THE HOUSE. THE FUTURE OF AI. THE BLOOMBERG TECH SUMMIT IS UNDERWAY.

EMILY CHANG SITS DOWN WITH OPENAI'S FORMER CTO AND FOUNDER OF AI START THINKING MACHINES LAB. FROM BLOOMBERG'S WASHINGTON, D.C. STUDIOS TO OUR TV AND RADIO AUDIENCES, WELCOME. ALONGSIDE JOE, I AM KAILEY LEINZ. JOE THE SENATE, FLOOR HAS BEEN GOING ON ALL DAY AND LIKELY TO GO ON WELL INTO THE NIGHT. JOE: WE HAVE OUR EYES ON THE SENATE FLOOR. AS YOU CAN SEE ON BLOOMBERG TV AND ON YOUTUBE, WITH SENATORS LOCKED IN AN ALL DAY VOTE-O-RAMA THAT COULD STRETCH WELL INTO THE NIGHT, IF NOT THE WEE HOURS. REPUBLICANS ARE ATTEMPTING TO PASS A $70 BILLION BILL THAT WOULD PROVIDE FUNDING FOR ICE AND BORDER PATROL. THERE IS A VERY BIG WRINKLE HERE THAT REMAINS.

THE DOJ'S CONTROVERSIAL ANTI-WEAPONIZATION FUND THAT IS BEING PUSHED BY THE PRESIDENT. SOME THOUGHT IT WAS DEBT EARLIER THIS WEEK WHEN TODD BLANCHE SUGGESTED AS MUCH. MANY IN CONGRESS ARE WONDERING ESPECIALLY AFTER THE PRESIDENT SUGGESTED THIS WAS A LIVE ISSUE, THEY MAY BE THE ONLY ONES TO OFFICIALLY KILL IT BEFORE THEY PASS ANY FUNDING BILL ON IMMIGRATION. JOINING US LIVE FROM CAPITOL HILL IS CHRIS COONS OF DELAWARE, HE SERVES ON THE SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE. HE HAS JUST COME TO JOIN US FROM THE SENATE FLOOR.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. I HOPE I ILLUSTRATED THAT CORRECTLY. I KNOW YOU HAVE A LOT OF AMENDMENTS FLYING TODAY. HAVE SENATORS AGREED TO LANGUAGE YET THAT WOULD KILL PRESIDENT TRUMP ANTI-WEAPONIZATION FUND? SEN. COONS: NO, AND I HAVE FILED AN AMENDMENT THAT I AM PRESSING TO GET A VOTE ON THIS EVENING THAT WOULD BAR ANY PAYOUTS FROM THIS FUND TO THOSE WHO ASSAULTED POLICE IN THE JANUARY 6 RIOT. WEEKS AGO WHEN I HAD THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL TODD BLANCHE IN FRONT OF ME FOR JUDICIARY APPROPRIATIONS, I PRESSED HIM ON HIT -- I PRESSED HIM ON THIS.

I SAID CAN YOU MAKE IT A COMMITMENT THAT THIS FUND WILL NOT BE USED TO PAY OFF FROM FAMILY MEMBERS, TRUMP'S BUSINESSES OR THOSE THAT WERE ASSAULTED -- THOSE WHO ASSAULTED POLICE AND WERE CONVICTED. HE MADE NO SUCH COMMITMENTS. PRESIDENT TRUMP RECENTLY SAID HE HOPES THIS FUND WILL BE ADOPTED. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO AN UPCOMING VOTE ON SENATOR KENNEDY'S -- SENATOR CASSIDY'S AMENDMENT WHICH WOULD AND THIS POSSIBILITY OF A SLUSH FUND FOR THE WANTS AND FOR ALL. THAT'S THE LEAST WE CAN DO. KAILEY: YOU JUST REFERRED TO ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL TODD BLANCHE.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WOULD LIKE TODD BLANCHE YOU JUST BECOME THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHICH WOULD REQUIRE CONFIRMATION IN THE SENATE. SHOULD THAT CONFIRMATION BE DEPENDENT ON A GUARANTEE FROM BLANCHE THAT THIS FUND WILL NEVER BE RESURRECTED IF HE IS TO BECOME ATTORNEY GENERAL, OR WOULD THAT NOT BE ENOUGH FOR HIM TO GET YOUR VOTE? SEN. COONS: THAT WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH TO GET MY VOTE. TODD BLANCHE, ACCORDING TO PAM BONDI, THE RECENTLY FIRED FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL, WAS PRINCIPALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HANDLING THE RELEASE OF THE EPSTEIN FILES. AS YOU KNOW, ALMOST ALL OF THE KEY ELEMENTS OF THE EPSTEIN FILES HAVE BEEN REDACTED. AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DRAGGED THEIR FEET FOR MONTHS.

ONLY WHEN BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION PASSED BY A BIG MARGIN DID PRESIDENT TRUMP AGREE THAT THERE WOULD BE AN EFFORT TO RELEASE THOSE FILES AFTER A YEAR OF DRAGGING HIS FEET. I'LL REMIND OUR VIEWERS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP RAN ON LOWERING YOUR COSTS, MAKING AMERICA HEALTHY AGAIN, NO NEW STUPID FOREIGN WARS AND RELEASING THE EPSTEIN FILES. HE HAS FALLEN DOWN ON ALL FOUR OF THOSE. WAR IN IRAN. GAS AND GROCERIES GOING UP. AMERICA LESS HEALTHY, HEALTH CARE CUT FOR MILLIONS. AND THIS EPSTEIN FILES ISSUE. FOR ME, THAT IS A CORE CONCERN IN ADDITION TO THIS WEAPONIZATION FUND, CHAMPIONED BY TODD BLANCHE, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FORMER PERSONAL

ATTORNEY WHO I THINK WOULD ACT TOO MUCH AS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY OR HE CONFIRMED FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL. JOE: CAN I ASK YOU, AS THIS VOTE-O-RAMA CONTINUES, WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF COMMOTION ON THE FLOOR, A LOT OF MEETINGS IN JOHN THUNE'S OFFICE. ARE DEMOCRATS INVOLVED IN TALKS AROUND THESE AMENDMENTS IN REAL TIME? SEN. COONS: WE'RE INVOLVED IN WHICH OF OUR AMENDMENTS WILL GET A VOTE, AND SOME OF US ARE INVOLVED IN TALKING ACROSS THE ISLE WITH OUR REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES ABOUT THIS WEAPONIZATION FUND AND OTHER ISSUES. I HAVE REAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE WHOLE BIGGER PICTURE. WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO JAM THROUGH ON A STRAIGHT PARTY-LINE VOTE $72 BILLION

MORE FOR ICE AND BORDER PATROL WHEN WE DEMOCRATS WOULD HAVE BEEN WILLING TO SUPPORT MORE FUNDING IF THEY ADOPTED REASONABLE REFORMS. THE KINDS OF STANDARDS FOR POLICING THAT WE FOLLOW AT THE CITY, COUNTY AND STATE LEVEL ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. AFTER THE TRAGEDY IN MINNEAPOLIS WHERE TWO AMERICAN CITIZENS WERE KILLED ON TV AND IN COLD BLOOD BY OUT OF CONTROL AND INSUFFICIENTLY TRAINED AND MANAGED OFFICERS, WE DEMANDED A FEW SIMPLE COMMON SENSE REFORMS. NO MASKS, NO -- BODY CAMERAS, NO MASKS, ID, BADGE NUMBER, MARKED VEHICLES, JUDICIAL WARRANT OF BREAKING DOWN A DOOR, REQUIRED BY THE FOURTH AMENDMENT. A REASONABLE PACKAGE OF REFORMS. INSTEAD OF REJECTING THOSE, STEPHEN MILLER AND

PRESIDENT TRUMP -- STEPHEN MILLER IS HIS DOMESTIC POLICY ADVISOR WHO WAS SUCH A HAWK ON MASS DEPORTATION -- INSISTED ON THIS APPROACH. MORE MONEY, NO ACCOUNTABILITY. KAILEY: AS YOU SPEAK OF REFORMS, MANY ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE HAVE CALLED FOR REFORMS TO SECTION 702 OF THE FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THERE WAS A BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT TO EXTEND FISA FOR THREE YEARS BUT THERE IS SUGGESTION THAT MAYBE THAT SHOULD NOT GO FORWARD SO LONG AS BILL PULTE WILL BE THE ACTING DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE.

WHERE DO YOU COME DOWN ON THAT ISSUE? SEN. COONS: I HAVE TWO CONCERNS ABOUT THIS VERY POWERFUL SURVEILLANCE TOOL AND THE WAYS IN WHICH IT HAS MISSED USED IN THE PAST. KASH PATEL AND BILL PULTE. UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WE REACH A BIPARTISAN COMPROMISE THAT REQUIRED REFORMS IN HOW THIS VERY POWERFUL SURVEILLANCE TOOL IS USED AND IN TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ABOUT HOW IT MIGHT BE MISUSED TO SURVEILLED AMERICAN CITIZENS. KNOWING WITH CONFIDENCE THAT THOSE REFORMS ARE BEING FOLLOWED IS KEY TO MY SUPPORTING EXTENDING 702. BILL PULTE IS A PRIVATE EQUITY GUY, A HOMEBUILDER.

YOU MIGHT BE QUALIFIED AT THOSE TWO, BUT HE HAS NO EXPERIENCE OR BACKGROUND IN INTELLIGENCE OR NATIONAL SECURITY. THE STATUTE REQUIRES THAT BACKGROUND. I WILL REQUIRE YOU THE POSITION WAS -- REMIND YOU THAT THE POSITION WAS CREATED AFTER 9/11 WHEN A BIPARTISAN STUDY CONCLUDED THAT INTELLIGENCE MISTAKES, THE SILOING AND ISOLATION OF DIFFERENT STRAINS OF INTELLIGENCE FROM EACH OTHER LEAD TO AN ATTACK WE COULD HAVE SEEN COMING. SO, THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE IS NOT A POSITION THAT SHOULD BE HELD BY A PARTISAN. WHAT BILL PULTE HAS DEMONSTRATED IN HIS ROLE LEADING THE COUNTRY'S MORTGAGE

AGENCIES IS A WILLINGNESS TO USE NONPUBLIC MORTGAGE INFORMATION TO TRY TO GO AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERCEIVED POLITICAL ENEMIES. THAT IS NOT THE SORT OF PERSON WITH THAT SORT OF RECORD WHO SHOULD BE LEADING OUR NATION'S INTELLIGENCE SERVICES, EVEN FOR A FEW MONTHS. JOE: SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE NEWS CYCLE WE ARE IN WHERE WE HAVE NOT EVEN TALKED ABOUT IRAN YET. FROM YOUR PERCH ON THE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE, I AM WONDERING YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID THIS WEEK, THAT THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ COULD BE CLOSED THROUGH LABOR DAY. ARE YOU PREPARED TO ACCEPT THAT?

SEN. COONS: LOOK, THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ WAS NOT CLOSED MORE THAN THREE MONTHS AGO WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP LAUNCHED THIS WAR OF CHOICE AGAINST IRAN. ONE OF THE REAL CHALLENGES HAS BEEN GETTING A STRAIGHT ANSWER. I'M THE SENIOR DEMOCRAT ON DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS. SECRETARY HEGSETH, WHEN I PRESS ED HIM, COULD NOT GIVE A CLEAR ANSWER ON THE STRATEGY AND PRESIDENT TRUMP AND SECRETARY HEGSETH HAVE GIVEN REPEATED AND CONFLICTING ARGUMENTS FOR WHY THIS WAR WAS NECESSARY. IS A WAR OF REGIME CHANGE? THAT IS WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID AND KILLED THE AYATOLLAH.

NOW WE HAVE HIS SON, AYATOLLAH 2.0, WHO IS MORE EXTREME, LESS LIKELY TO COME TO A DEAL WITH THE UNITED STATES, MORE EMBOLDENED BY THE IRGC. WAS THIS ABOUT ENDING OR PREVENTING ANY FUTURE IRANIAN NUCLEAR ENRICHMENT? WELL, WE HAVE NOT MADE ANY PROGRESS ON THAT PART AFTER MORE THAN THREE MONTHS OF WAR. WAS IT ABOUT SINKING THEIR NAVY OR ATTACKING THE BALLISTIC MISSILES? THAT, THERE WAS SUCCESS IN, BUT THEY STILL HAVE DOZENS AND DOZENS OF LIGHT, FAST ATTACK CRAFT, THE ABILITY TO STILL PUT MINES IN THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ, AND THOUSANDS OF LETHAL, CHEAP DRONES THAT THE IRANIANS HAVE USED TO ATTACK OUR BASIS, EMBASSIES AND OUR ALLIES. AND THE OIL AND GAS PRODUCTION

CAPABILITIES OF COUNTRIES FROM THE UAE TO QATAR TO SAUDI. IF THAT STRAIT IS CLOSED THROUGH SEPTEMBER, YOU BETTER BE READY FOR GAS TO GO UP ANOTHER 30%. I WAS HOME IN DELAWARE LAST WEEK, THE PRINCIPAL CONCERN FROM FOLKS IS THE EVERYDAY CONCERNS ABOUT THE CAST -- COST OF GAS AND GROCERIES, HOUSING AND HEALTH CARE. AND THE FERTILIZER THAT GOES THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ, THE INPUTS AND THE GAS AND OIL THAT GOES THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ, IF THAT IS CUT OFF FOR SIX MONTHS, THAT GUARANTEES WE WILL SEE HIGHER PRICES AND HIGHER INFLATION. KAILEY: SO, CLEARLY, THE TIMELINE HERE IS NOT CLEAR, BUT IT SEEMS

PRESIDENT TRUMP WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS COME TO AN END EVENTUALLY AND IT LOOKS LIKE HE HAS SOMETHING ELSE ON HIS TO DO LIST AFTER THE FACT. HE HAS TOLD REPORTERS IN THE OVAL OFFICE THAT WANTS -- HE LIKES TO DO ONE THING AT A TIME -- HE SAYS THE U.S. WILL MAKE A "BRIEF STOP AND TAKE CARE OF CUBA." WHAT DOES THE UNITED STATES TAKING CARE OF CUBA LOOK LIKE? SEN. COONS: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I WILL REMIND YOU PRESIDENT TRUMP ALSO SAID HE HAS GOTTEN BORED WITH TRYING TO RESOLVE THE WAR WITH IRAN THAT HE STARTED. I WILL REMIND YOU WHEN HE WAS RUNNING, HE PROMISED TO END THE WAR BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE ON DAY ONE.

HE HAS TAKEN CREDIT FOR ENDING SEVERAL WARS THAT HAVEN'T ENDED. SO, IT IS NOT THAT HE DOES ONE THING AT A TIME. IT IS THAT HE GETS BORED WITH ONE THING AT A TIME AND MOVES ON TO THE NEXT, LEAVING BEHIND A GREATER WRECKAGE. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE WITH REGARD TO CUBA, BUT I KNOW THERE IS AN EMERGING HUMANITARIAN CRISIS ON THAT ISLAND BECAUSE OF THE BLOCKADE, THE CURRENT NAVAL BLOCKADE THAT IS PREVENTING OIL OR FOOD OR ENERGY OF ANY KIND OF GETTING INTO THAT ISLAND. I OPPOSED THE CUBAN COMMUNIST PARTY AND ITS REPRESSION OF THE PEOPLE OF CUBA OVER DECADES, BUT JUST AS PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED THE IRANIANS WOULD CLOSE THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ?

WELL, ANYONE WHO KNOWS THE REGION WOULD BECAUSE THEY DID IT IN THE 1980'S. HE CAN'T SAY WHO WOULD HAVE PREDICTED THAT CUBANS WOULD UNLEASH A FLOW OF MIGRANTS TO THE UNITED STATES? THAT IS WHAT FIDEL CASTRO DID IN 1980. 125,000 CUBANS CAME TO THE UNITED STATES THROUGH THE BOAT LIFT. WE SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR HUMANITARIAN CRISIS ON CUBA AND A MASSIVE FLOTILLA OF CUBAN SEEKING REFUGE IN THE UNITED STATES. MY QUESTION IS, GIVEN THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP AND DOGE, ELON MUSK'S MISADVENTURE, LAID OFF MANY OF THE PEOPLE AT USAID, MOST CAPABLE OF DEALING WITH THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS, OF DEALING WITH A REFUGEE DISASTER, WHAT ARE THEIR PLANS?

AND WHAT DOES HE MEAN BY TAKING CARE OF CUBA? AND WILL THE ADVANCE DEMOCRACY? I JUST PRESSED A SECRETARY RUBIO YESTERDAY ON WHAT'S THE PATH FORWARD IN VENEZUELA. IS IT JUST ABOUT GETTING THEIR OIL OR IS IT ALSO ABOUT ADVANCING DEMOCRACY? THAT IS THE SORT OF GOAL WE SHOULD ALL BE PULLING FOR AND IT IS UTTERLY UNCLEAR WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE IN VENEZUELA, IN IRAN, WITH REGARD TO THE UKRAINE, AND IN CUBA. CLEAR AS MUD. KAILEY: SENATOR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. SENATOR CHRIS COONS OF DELAWARE. NOW, WE WANT TO GO LIVE TO SAN FRANCISCO WHERE THE BLOOMBERG TECH SUMMIT IS TAKING PLACE.

EMILY CHANG IS IN CONVERSATION WITH THE COFOUNDER AND CEO OF THINKING MACHINES LAB. THE VALUES OF THE PEOPLE MATTER A LOT BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF DECISIONS, MICRO DECISIONS YOU HAVE TO MAKE EVERY DAY AND YOU HAVE TO TRUST YOUR TEAM THAT THEY ARE MAKING THE RIGHT CALLS. I DO THINK THERE IS PLENTY OF FOCUS ON THAT AND IT IS GREAT. WHERE THERE IS LESS FOCUS IS SORT OF THE INSTITUTIONAL DESIGN, DECISION-MAKING, TRANSPARENCY. INCREASING THE LEVEL OF AGENCY THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO ACTUALLY DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES. SO, IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE LIKE AN AUTHORITY THAT SAYS THIS IS SAFE, THIS IS GOOD, STAMP OF APPROVAL. EACH PERSON CAN WEIGH FOR THEMSELVES WHAT WORKS FOR THEM.

THE WAY WE ARE GOING ABOUT BUILDING AI SYSTEMS TODAY IS VERY CONCENTRATED, AND IT IS PART OF THE LEGACY WAY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE REAL-WORLD DATA AND EXPERIENCE. THE ONLY WAY TO ADVANCE AI WAS SORT OF IN SILO AND IN A VACUUM. BUT I THINK, YEAH, TODAY IS A DIFFERENT TIME TO BUILD, WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY LEARN A LOT FROM THE CAPABILITIES, LIMITATIONS IN THE REAL WORLD, AND USE THAT DATA AND INFORMATION TO ACTUALLY STEER THE DIRECTION OF RESEARCH. AND THIS ENABLES PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY THINK FOR THEMSELVES. OFTEN PEOPLE WILL ASK ME ABOUT CHATGPT AND HOW THE IMPACT OF ALL OF THAT, AND OF COURSE IT'S MAGNIFICENT FROM A TECHNOLOGY

PERSPECTIVE. BUT I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF, OR IMPACT OF CHATGPT WAS BRINGING AI INTO THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS, EVERYONE UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT IS BY INTERACTING WITH IT, VS. BEING TOLD WHAT AI CAN DO AND WHAT THE CAPABILITIES AND LIMITATIONS ARE. EMILY: WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MOMENT DEMANDS OF A LEADER? AND SHOULD WE TRUST THE LEADER IS IN POWER RIGHT NOW? SHOULD WE TRUST SAM ALTMAN? MIRA: I THINK THAT EVERYONE SHOULD BE -- EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE TOOLS AND INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES. AND IDEALLY, THE STRUCTURE OF GOVERNANCE AND DECISION-MAKING

SHOULD NOT HINGE ON ONE PERSON. THERE SHOULD BE CHECKS AND BALANCES. I THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT WHO IS WORKING ON THE SYSTEMS AND THE CHARACTER OF PEOPLE. BUT I DO THINK THAT THE CONVERSATION GETS TOO WRAPPED UP THERE AND NOT ENOUGH THINKING MORE BROADLY ABOUT CHECKS AND BALANCES IN THE SYSTEM. BECAUSE EVEN PEOPLE THAT ARE WELL-INTENTIONED, THEY CAN MAKE MISTAKES AND THEY CAN MISESTIMATE THE CONSEQUENCES OF MAKING A CALL. AND SO MORALITY IS NOT EVERYTHING. YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE ACTUAL DECISION-MAKING STRUCTURES AND TRANSPARENCY AND GOVERNANCE. THESE ARE ALL COMPLICATED THINGS, AND TO GET AS MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THESE THINGS AS POSSIBLE, YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE, YOU

HAVE TO SHARE TOOLS. AND THIS IS PART OF THE REASON WHY WE HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN A MORE OPEN APPROACH WITH OUR LAB. EMILY: SO THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION, WHICH IS HOW IS EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE LEARNED SHAPING WHAT YOU ARE BUILDING AT THINKING MACHINES AND HOW YOU ARE BUILDING AND THE CULTURE YOU WANT TO CREATE? MIRA: YEAH, I THINK I HAVE A VERY HIGH CONVICTION THAT THE WAY TO CONTINUE BUILDING FRONTIER AI SYSTEMS IS TO BRING PEOPLE ALONG, AND TO HAVE HUMANS IN THE LOOP. ACTUALLY, HAVING HUMANS IN THE LOOP DOESN'T QUITE DESCRIBE IT, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE A CHECKPOINT WHERE WE ARE SIGNING UP SOMETHING AND YOU ARE GOOD TO GO. IT IS MORE LIKE CREATING SYSTEMS THAT ARE NOT JUST AUTONOMOUSLY ADVANCING AND

LEAVING CIVILIZATION BEHIND, BUT ARE MORE LIKE TANDEMLIKE WERE BOTH PEOPLE ARE PEDDLING BUT WHEN YOU ARE GOING UPHILL, WHOEVER IS STRONGER IS PEDDLING HARDER. PUT BOTH HANDS ARE ON-- BUT BOTH HANDS ARE ON THE WHEEL. THAT IS QUITE IMPORTED BECAUSE THAT IS A DIFFERENT SYSTEM. IT IS A SYSTEM DESIGNED FOR COLLABORATION. AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD WITH THINKING MACHINES. I THINK IT IS QUITE DIFFERENTIATED. AND I HOPE THAT IT WILL INCREASE THE LEVEL OF AGENCY THAT PEOPLE HAVE, AND ALSO IT WILL HELP US STEER THE RESEARCH DIRECTION TOWARDS CREATING OUTPUTS THAT ARE MORE VALUE-ALIGNED. SO YOU ALSO GET ALIGNMENT AS A

RESULT OF THIS APPROACH, IN ADDITION TO USEFULNESS. LIKE ACTUALLY CREATING TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE USEFUL IN THE REAL WORLD. EMILY: YOU HAVE HIRED A LOT OF TOP TALENT. REPORTS OF NINE-FIGURE DEALS. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME HIGH-PROFILE THE PRESSURES. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE WAR FOR TALENT? JOE: ALL RIGHT, OUR THANKS TO EMILY CHANG AND MIRA MURATI, THE COFOUNDER AND CEO OF THINKING MACHINES LAB, SPEAKING LIVE IN SAN FRANCISCO. OUR TECH SUMMIT CONTINUES, AND WE ARE KEEPING OUR EYES ON THINGS FOR YOU. DIVERGENCE WAS THE WORD ON WALL STREET, WITH ROTATION OF CHIPMAKERS PROMPTED BY LOSSES IN BROADCOM FOLLOWING EARNINGS

LAST NIGHT AND OTHER SECTORS LIKE FINANCIALS AND HEALTH CARE HELPING THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE HIT ALL-TIME HIGHS. WE TURN TO " POWER MOVES" WITH ROMAINE BOSTICK. ROMAINE: THAT ROTATION FRONT AND CENTER IN THE MOVE WE SAW IN THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE CAUGHT A LOT OF PEOPLE BY ATTENTION, OF 1.7%. MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE OUTPERFORMANCE IS RELATIVE TO THE S&P AND THE NASDAQ, THE BIGGEST OUTPERFORMANCE ON A ONE-DAY BASES GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO JANUARY 2025. A BIG PART OF THE REASON IS AT LEAST FOR RIGHT NOW, JOE, PEOPLE HAVE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF ENOUGH WITH THESE AI AND CHIP STOCKS.

YOU LOOK AT WHAT MOVES COMMIT WAS HEALTH CARE NAMES LIKE UNITEDHEALTH AND AMGEN, BANK STOCKS LIKE GOLDMAN SACHS, WHICH HAD ONE OF ITS BEST DAYS AND MONTHS. QUALCOMMS OF THE WORLD, CIENAS OF THE WORLD, BROADCOMS OF THE WORLD TOOK A BIG LEG DOWN BECAUSE OF, FRANKLY, THE EARNINGS WE HEARD FROM THEM. WE HEARD FROM BROADCOM AND CIENA BEAT IN THE LATEST QUOTAS BUT THE GROWTH RATES THEY WERE PROJECTING OUT WEREN'T REALLY COMMENCEMENT WITH THE GROWTH RATES WE--WEREN'T REALLY COMMENCEMENT WITH THE GROWTH RATES WE HAVE SEEN IN THEIR SHARE PRICES. THAT CAUGHT UP WITH OTHER COMPANY'S INCLUDING MICRON.

AND THEN THERE WAS A BROADER STORY OUT THERE, TOO, AND THAT HAD A LOT TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE RETAIL SPACE. WE SAW PVH, THE COMPANY BEHIND CALVIN KLEIN, AND THEY TALKED A LOT ON THE CONFERENCE CALL ABOUT THE PRICING PRESSURES THE CONSUMER IS HAVING OUT THERE AND THAT WILL HAVE A BIG AND MATERIAL IMPACT GOING FORWARD POTENTIALLY ON REVENUE AND EARNINGS. KAILEY: AND AS WE CONSIDER THE STATE OF THE CONSUMER, A LOT OF THAT DEPENDS ON THE STRENGTH OF THE LABOR MARKET AND PEOPLE'S CONFIDENCE THAT THEY CAN KEEP, RETAIN, GET A JOB. WE HAVE JOBS DATA TOMORROW. WHAT SHOULD WE BE LOOKING FOR? ROMAINE: IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, KAILEY, GENERALLY SPEAKING THEY ARE GOING TO BE GOOD. 85,000 UPGRADED, AND IF YOU

BELIEVE WHAT BLOOMBERG ECONOMICS IS SAYING, WE WILL GET ABOVE A RATE OF MORE THAN 100,000 JOBS, WHICH WOULD BE RELATIVELY HEALTHY. THE PROBLEM IS THOSE JOBS ARE CONCENTRATED IN CERTAIN AREAS LIKE LEISURE AND HOSPITALITY. HERE IS A QUESTION I'VE BEEN POSING ALL DAY LONG AND IT GOES TO THE SELLOFF WE SAW IN THE TECH NAMES TODAY. YOU ARE INVESTING HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO AI, YET WHERE IS THE JOB GROWTH, KAILEY? QUITE FRANKLY, IT'S NOT THERE. IT'S THE OPPOSITE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ATTRITION AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LAYOFFS OUT THERE, THE NUMBER ONE REASON THAT COMPANIES ARE GIVING FOR THAT IS BECAUSE OF AI. WHETHER YOU BELIEVE THEM OR

NOT, WHO KNOWS, BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THE JOB CREATION MACHINE IN THE TECH SPACE IS NOWHERE NEAR AS CLOSE TO WHAT THE WEALTH CREATION MACHINE IS IN THAT SPACE RIGHT NOW. KAILEY: VERY GOOD POINT, SPEAKS TO ONE OF THE CHALLENGES FACING THIS ECONOMY. ROMAINE BOSTICK, THANK YOU SO MUCH. ANOTHER CHALLENGE THAT THE GLOBAL ECONOMY IS FACING IS THE ONGOING CLOSURE OF THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ, AS WE ARE LOOKING FOR SOME KIND OF RESOLUTION BETWEEN THE U.S. AND IRAN. THE PRESIDENT DID PROVIDE THIS UPDATE ABOUT THE STATE OF THE CONFLICT AND NEGOTIATIONS SPEAKING FROM THE OVAL OFFICE EARLIER. LISTEN.

IT SEEMS WE MIGHT NOT HAVE THAT SOUND, SO LET'S JUST GET THE LATEST FROM THE WHITE HOUSE NORTH LONG AS WE TURN TO CATHERINE LUCY, WHO COVERS THE WHITE HOUSE FOR US. WE DID NOT GET TO HEAR THE PRESIDENT IN HIS OWN WORDS BUT YOU HAVE BEEN COVERING WHAT HE SAID. TELL US THE LATEST FROM HIM. CATHERINE: THE PRESIDENT SPOKE TO REPORTERS THIS AFTERNOON AND HE SPOKE TO THE REPORTS THAT HEZBOLLAH REJECTED A DEAL AND HE SAID THEY DIDN'T REJECT HIM, THAT THEY REACHED OUT TO HIM TO TALK. HE IS STILL PROJECTING OPTIMISM, WITHOUT BEING TERRIBLY SPECIFIC.

HE DID SAY TODAY THAT THE U.S. WOULD WIN MILITARILY OR ON PAPER. EARLIER TODAY HE TWEETED, OR POSTED ON X, RATHER, THAT HE WAS IN THE FINAL DISCUSSIONS OF A DEAL. IT IS KIND OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SEEING FOR SOME TIME NOW. HE GOES BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THREATS AND PROMISES, CONTINUES TO SAY THAT THINGS ARE CLOSE, CONTINUES TO SAY THAT THE U.S. WILL COME OUT AHEAD. IT WAS VERY CLEAR AND REPEATED COMMENTS THAT GAS PRICES WILL COME DOWN WHEN THIS IS OVER. HE WAS ASKED IF HE IS CONCERNED ADULT WITH HOW THIS IS WEIGHING TO MYSTICALLY ON MIDTERM ELECTIONS AND SAID "NO, I DO WHAT'S RIGHT." JOE: CATHERINE, WE JUST HAD A CONVERSATION WITH SENATOR CHRIS COONS OF DELAWARE, AND THE DEMOCRAT IS NOT A FAN OF

PRESIDENT TRUMP,'S POLICIES, OR HIS STAFF, BUT HE MADE PRETTY CLEAR, AND SOME REPUBLICANS HAVE AS WELL, THAT THE PRESIDENT'S APPOINTMENT OF BILL PULTE AS DNI COULD HOLD UP A BUSINESS IN WASHINGTON, INCLUDING THE RENEWAL OF FISA. IN OUR REMAINING MOMENT, IS THAT SOMETHING THE PRESIDENT PLANS TO LEAN INTO? JOE: THE PRESIDENT -- CATHERINE: THE PRESIDENT SAID THIS WAS AN ACTING APPOINTMENT AND HE PRAISED PULTE AND SAID HE IS A SMART GUY, BUT HE MADE CLEAR THAT THIS IS ACTING AND HE WILL BE LOOKING FOR A PERMANENT CANDIDATE. KAILEY: I GUESS MAYBE WE WILL GET A SENSE OF WHAT THOSE CANDIDATES ARE. JOE: IS THERE A SHORT LIST, CATHERINE? IF NOT BILL PULTE, THEN WHO?

CATHERINE: WE DIDN'T GET ANY CLARITY FROM THE PRESIDENT ON THAT TODAY. BUT YOU KNOW, OFTEN WE HEAR FROM HIM IN A VARIETY OF MEANS INCLUDING ON HIS SOCIALS. HE DIDN'T NAME ANY NAMES. JOE: I'M SURE THEY WILL BE BRINGING BACK TO THE OVAL SOON. CATHERINE LUCY, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US, REPORTING LIVE FROM THE NORTH LAWN OF THE WHITE HOUSE. THIS IS A STORY THAT IS NOT GOING AWAY. AND THE PRESIDENT DOES SEEM TO BE PRETTY DETERMINED TO AT LEAST GIVE PULTE THE JOB FOR THE MOMENT. KAILEY: WE HEARD ABOUT THIS FROM SENATOR CHRIS COONS A MOMENT AGO, AND WE WILL GET A TAKE FROM THE OTHER SIDE AVAIL FROM SENATOR PETE RICKETTS. JOE: STAY WITH US LIVE FROM WASHINGTON.

ALONGSIDE KAILEY LEINZ, I'M JOE MATHIEU. THIS IS BLOOMBERG. KAILEY: THIS IS BALANCE OF POWER ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. IF YOU ARE WITH US ON TV OR YOUTUBE, TAKE A LOOK NOW AT A LIVE SHOT OF THE SENATE FLOOR, WHERE A PHOTO FROM A -- A VOTE IS UNDERWAY ON A BUDGET RECONCILIATION BILL, BUT THERE ARE AMENDMENTS ON OTHER THINGS BEING FORCED INTO THE PROCESS, INCLUDING A POTENTIALLY PERMANENT BAN TO AN ANTI-WEAPONIZATION FUND BEING BROUGHT FORWARD BY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

JOINING US FOR THAT AND MORE IS REPUBLICAN SENATOR PETE RICKETTS OF NEBRASKA, WHO SERVES ON THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE AND BANKING COMMITTEE. WELCOME BACK TO BLOOMBERG. I DON'T KNOW HOW LATE YOU EXPECT THIS TO GO THIS EVENING, BUT IS IT YOUR EXPECTATION THAT WHEN THIS VOTE IS SAID AND DONE, THERE WILL BE IN PLACE WRITTEN INTO LAW A BAN ON A WEAPONIZATION FUND? SEN. RICKETTS: THIS BILL IS SOLELY ABOUT FUNDING ISABELLE -- FUNDING I.C.E. AND BORDER CONTROL. THIS IS ABOUT MAKING SURE WE HAVE OUR NATIONAL SECURITY BASICALLY PREPARED FOR BY PAYING OUR ICE AGENTS AND OUR BORDER PATROL AGENT'S. THAT IS WHAT THIS PHOTO

RAMA -- VOTE-A-RAMA IS ALL ABOUT. JOE: YOU ARE A NO VOTE ON THESE RESOLUTIONS TO KILL AN ANTI- WEAPONIZATION FUND. CAN THIS PASS WITHOUT IT? THIS CANNOT PASS UP WITH IT. BECAUSE OF OUR RULES, IF WE ATTACH ANYTHING ELSE TO IT, IT TAKES DOWN THE PRIVILEGED STATUS OF THE RECONCILIATION BILL AND IT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PASS. THE MONEY GOING TO FUND ICE AND BORDER PATROL DEPENDS ON IF WE PASS THIS. IF WE CANNOT ATTACH ANYTHING THAT IS NOT RELATED TO NATIONAL SECURITY, OR ELSE IT TAKES AWAY FROM THE PRIVILEGED STATUS. JOE: SO EVEN IF THE AMENDMENTS THAT

-- EVEN IF THE AMENDMENT PASSES, THE PARLIAMENTARIAN WOULD NOT ALLOW IT, IS THAT YOUR POINT? SEN. RICKETTS: NO, IF THE AMENDMENT PASSES, WE WILL MOVE TO THE 60 VOTE THRESHOLD. THE DEMOCRATS ARE STUCK IN THEIR WHOLE DEFUND THE POLICE, ANTI-LAW ENFORCEMENT, ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF. THEY WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING THAT HAS ICE FUNDING IN IT. WE TRIED TO NEGOTIATE SOMETHING WITH THE ON REFORMS. THEY CAME BACK AND SAID, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE CAN'T VOTE FOR ANYTHING THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ICE, SO SORRY, WE CAN'T DO ANY REFORMS. THAT IS THE PROBLEM, THE DEMOCRATS WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH ICE OR BORDER CONTROL.

KAILEY: I HEAR YOU ON YOUR BELIEF THAT DEMOCRATS DON'T WANT TO FUND LAW ENFORCEMENT, HOWEVER, WHEN IT COMES TO THE ANTI-WEAPONIZATION FUND, THERE IS CONCERN THAT MONEY COULD BE PAID OUT TO PEOPLE WHO ASSAULTED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. DO YOU NOT SHARE IN THAT SENTIMENT? SEN. RICKETTS: WHEN IT COMES TO THE DEMOCRATS BEING CONCERNED ABOUT ASSAULTING LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, THAT IS A RED HERRING. IF THEY REALLY CARED ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, THEY WOULD HAVE VOTED TO FUND ICE AND BORDER PATROL AND LONG TIME AGO. SENATOR TILLIS WAS PREPARED TO VOTE TO FUND ICE AND BORDER PATROL MONTHS AGO. IT IS THE DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE BEEN HOLDING THIS ALL UP BECAUSE THEY ARE BEHOLDEN TO

THEIR LEFT WING AND GOING, OH, I CAN'T VOTE FOR ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH ICE. JOE: WE HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS SUGGEST SOME CONCERN ABOUT THAT, AND I REALIZE YOU DON'T HAVE IT, SENATOR, WHEN IT COMES TO THE ANTI-WEAPONIZATION FUND. THAT SAID, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT HERE? I HAVE NEVER SEEN A VOTE-A-RAMA TAKE PLACE IN THE LIGHT OF DAY. DO YOU EXPECT US TO GET DONE IN THE COMING HOURS? SEN. RICKETTS: WE ARE TRYING SOMETHING NEW BY STARTING THIS DURING THE DAYTIME. I EXPECT WE WILL WRAP IT UP AT AN EARLIER HOUR THAN LAST TIME. THE LAST ONE WRAPPED UP AT 4:00 IN THE MORNING, THREE: 30, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I THINK WE CAN GET IT DONE SOONER. IT DEPENDS ON HOW MANY AMENDMENTS PEOPLE WANT TO OFFER

AND WHEN THOSE RUN OUT. KAILEY: WE ARE HOPING YOU GUYS HAVE A SHORT NIGHT, AND YOU ARE VERY KIND TO SHARE SOME OF IT WITH US. AS YOU CONSIDER ALL THE ISSUES IN PLAY, THE WEAPONIZATION FUND, YES, BUT THERE IS AND ALSO -- THERE IS ALSO AN ISSUE YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH ON FISA AND THE EXTENSION OF SECTION 702. THERE WAS A BIPARTISAN COMPROMISE. DEMOCRATS NOW SUGGEST MAY BE DISRUPTED BY THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS TAPPED BILL PULTE TO BE ACTING DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE. THE PRESIDENT SAID IN THE OVAL OFFICE TODAY HE INTENDS THAT TO JUST BE IN ACTING AND NOT

PERMANENT POSITION. DO YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT HIM HELMING AND HAVING ACCESS TO THE 18 INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES OF THE UNITED STATES WITH NO NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERIENCE IN THE PAST? SEN. RICKETTS: IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THIS IS A TEMPORARY APPOINTMENT. PULTE IS NOT GIVING UP HIS JOB AT FHA. IT IS A TEMPORARY APPOINTMENT. I LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING WITH MR. PULTE ON HOW HE WILL DO THIS JOB, AND I WILL WITHHOLD MY JUDGMENT UNTIL I GET A CHANCE TO TALK TO HIM. JOE: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, SENATOR, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE AT THE ROSE GARDEN LAST EVENING, BUT THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WANTS THAT TO BE A PERMANENT APPOINTMENT.

WOULD YOU VOTE TO CONFIRM? SEN. RICKETTS: THESE APPOINTEES HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND TALKED WITH SENATORS, AND THAT'S WHY EXPECT MIXTURE BLANCHE -- MR. BLANCHE TO COME IN TO TALK TO SENATORS AND CONVINCE US WHY HE SHOULD BE THE BEST ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THAT WE SHOULD CONFIRM HIM. KAILEY: THAT IS SOMETHING WE HEARD THE PRESIDENT SPEAK ABOUT AS WELL THIS AFTERNOON. HE RECEIVED A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS FROM REPORTERS ON THE SUBJECT OF IRAN. HE SUGGESTED WHEN IT COMES TO THE SO-CALLED NUCLEAR TOSS THAT HE REFERS TO, THE REMAINING ENRICHED URANIUM IN IRAN, THAT EITHER THE U.S. OR CHINA NEED TO BE THE ONES TO GO IN AND GET IT. I KNOW YOU WERE JUST IN

SINGAPORE AT THE SHANGRI-LA DIALOGUE, FOCUSED ON CHINA SPECIFICALLY. DO YOU EXPECT CHINA IS GOING TO PLAY A ROLE SOMEHOW IN THE RESOLUTION OF THIS CONFLICT? SEN. RICKETTS: I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE ROLE WILL BE FOR ANY COUNTRY GETTING INVOLVED WITH THIS. WHAT IS CLEAR IS WE CANNOT HAVE -- CANNOT ALLOW IRAN TO HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON. THEY HAVE ENRICHED THE URANIUM FAR BEYOND A CIVILIAN USE. IT IS ONLY DESIGNED TO BE MADE FOR BOMB MAKING, AND THAT IS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT WE GET IT OUT OF THE COUNTRY, AND THAT'S GOT TO BE A PART OF THE AGREEMENT IF WE GET WITH IRAN. THIS IS A COUNTRY THAT CHANCE

DEATH TO AMERICA. THEY HAVE KILLED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE. I HAVE NO DOUBT THEY WOULD KILL MILLIONS OF HOURS IN A HEARTBEAT. THEY HAVE THREATS AND THEIR ALLIES AND ATTACKED OUR ALLIES, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE IT OUR DUTY TO MAKE SURE THEY NEVER HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON. JOE: THE PRESIDENT SAID THIS WEEK IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT THE STRAIT IS CLOSED THROUGH LABOR DAY. I AM WONDERING WHAT YOU HEARD WHILE IN SINGAPORE, SENATOR. IF YOU COULD SHARE WITH US SOME OF YOUR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR ACTUAL PHYSICAL FUEL SHORTAGES HITTING ASIA MOST LIKELY FIRST. SEN.

RICKETTS: WE HEARD FROM A LOT OF OUR PARTNERS AND ALLIES THAT A LOT OF THEIR FUEL COMES THROUGH THE STREETS OF HORMUZ. IF WE HAVE ALSO LEARNED THE GLOBAL MARKET IS ACTUALLY RESILIENT AND OTHER SUPPLY LINES ARE PICKING UP FOR THAT. IT DOES NOT COME WITHOUT A COST. IT DOES MAKE IT MORE EXPENSIVE. MANY COUNTRIES HAVE PLANNED FOR THIS, OTHERS HAVE NOT, BUT I BELIEVE WE IN THE UNITED STATES WILL PLAY A ROLE TO HELP OUR ALLIES AND PARTNERS BE ABLE TO MAKE UP FOR SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ. AND AS SOON AS WE ARE ON -- ABLE TO UNLEASH AMERICAN ENERGY AND OUR POTENTIAL, THE BETTER IT IS GOING TO BE FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD SO WE ARE NOT DEPENDENT ON THAT NARROW

CHOKEPOINT. KAILEY: IF IT IS LOOKING LIKE THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ IS GOING TO REMAIN CLOSED FOR MANY MORE MONTHS POTENTIALLY, SENATOR, HIS DIPLOMACY STILL THE BEST PURSUIT, OR COULD IT NEED TO BE A RESUMPTION OF MILITARY ACTIVITY TO REOPEN THAT IN THE NAME OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMY FOR ALL OF OUR ALLIES WHO ARE GOING TO BE SHORT ON ENERGY SUPPLIES? SEN. RICKETTS: DIPLOMACY IS ALWAYS OUR FIRST OPTION. THAT IS WHERE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION STARTED WITH IRAN. SADLY, WHAT IRAN DOES IS DELAY, DELAY, DELAY. THEY DID THAT THROUGH PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, AND THE TRUMP

ADMINISTRATION IS NOT COMING TO FALL FOR IT. DO WE NEED THE ABILITY TO RESUME THE MILITARY OPTION? WE CAN'T TAKE THAT OFF THE TABLE, BUT OUR PREFERRED OPTION IS TO RESOLVE THIS THROUGH DIPLOMACY. JOE: WHEN ARE WE GOING TO CUBA, SENATOR? SEN. RICKETTS: I THINK THE PRESIDENT SAID EARLIER HE IS FOCUSED ON IRAN, AND ONE OF THE THINGS HAPPENING WITH CUBA RIGHT NOW IS BECAUSE VENEZUELA IS WORKING WITH US BECAUSE OF THE PRESIDENT'S ACTION REMOVING MADURO AND THEY ARE NOT SHIPPING HUMAN FREE OIL. THAT IS CREATING SOME OF THE PROBLEMS IN CUBA WITH REGARD TO THE INSTABILITY IN THEIR ENERGY GRID. IT IS A GRID THAT I HAD NOT BEEN INVESTED IN -- THAT HAD NOT BEEN INVESTED IN THE PAST BY THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT.

WHETHER WE PUSH ON THAT IS SOMETHING THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, BUT RIGHT NOW THE ADMINISTRATION IS FOCUSED ON GETTING A RESOLUTION WITH IRAN. JOE: WE APPRECIATE YOU LEAVING THE FLOOR TO CHAT WITH US, SENATOR. GOOD LUCK ON THE VOTE-A-RAMA. REPUBLICAN SENATOR PETE RICKETTS OF NEBRASKA, WE THANK YOU FOR THE CONVERSATION. COMING UP, AND WILL CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION WHEN WE ASSEMBLE OUR POLITICAL PANEL NEXT. THIS IS "BALANCE OF POWER" ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. KAILEY: THIS IS "BALANCE OF POWER" ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. RIGHT NOW IN WASHINGTON ON CAPITOL HILL, THE VOTE AROMA IS STILL UNDER -- THE VOTE-A-RAMA IS STILL UNDERWAY. WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT, INCLUDING ONE WITH PETE RICKETTS OF NEBRASKA, WHO

MAINTAINED HE DOES NOT THINK WE ARE COMING OUT OF THIS WITH A PERMANENT BAN ON AN ANTI-WEAPONIZATION FUND AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THOUGH A NUMBER OF AMENDMENTS ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE THAT OUTCOME. FOR THE LATEST ON THE VOTING, WE TURN TO ERIK WASSON, JOINING US LIVE FROM CAPITOL HILL. WHERE ARE WE ON THE PROCESS? ARE WE GOING TO SEE AN AMENDMENT THAT RESTRICTS A WEAPONIZATION FUND PAST? I DON'T THINK SO. THERE IS A SAFETY VALVE. THOM TILLIS OF NORTH CAROLINA OFFERED ONE, BUT IT WOULD PROVIDE MONEY FOR JD VANCE'S ANTIFRAUD EFFORTS.

THE DEMOCRATS ALL VOTED AGAINST THAT, BUT THAT CREATED A FREE VOTE FOR 10 TO 15 REPUBLICANS TO VOTE FOR IT. THAT WAY THEY CAN GO BACK TO THEIR STATES AND SAY THEY TRIED AND SHOWED THEY WERE OPPOSED TO THE IDEA OF A WEAPONIZATION FUND. THIS MEANS THE BILL IS GOING TO PASS, PROBABLY LATE AT NIGHT, MAYBE AT 11:00 OR 12:00 AT NIGHT, GO TO THE HOUSE AND PASSED THERE AS WELL AND PROVIDE $70 BILLION IN FUNDING FOR ICE AND CBP, AND THOSE ORGANIZATIONS WILL CONTINUE WITHOUT -- BECAUSE DEMOCRATS DON'T REALLY HAVE A FUNDING LEVERAGE POINT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES. JOE: JOE: GIVE US A SENSE OF THE DRAMA BEHIND THE SCENES WHEN SENATOR BILL CASSIDY, WHO CROSSED DONALD TRUMP AND SEEMS TO BE

READY TO QUEST DONALD TRUMP RIGHT BACK, SEEMS NOT TO GO WITH CHUCK SCHUMER ON HIS AMENDMENT TO KILL THE ANTI-WEAPONIZATION FUND. IS THERE A DEAL THAT WAS MADE? WHAT BROUGHT THE VOTE? ERIK: MY READ ON THAT -- WE SAW HIM TALKING WITH A PARLIAMENTARIAN -- HE WAS WORKING WITH LEADERS TO SEE IF AN AMENDMENT TO STRIP OR LIMIT THE WEAPONIZATION FUND COULD PASS MUSTER BY THE PARLIAMENTARIAN. I THINK THE EFFORT IS CLEARLY FAILED. SENATOR PETE RICKETTS WAS JUST SAYING THERE IS THIS WHOLE ISSUE THAT IF THE AMENDMENT SUCCEEDED, IT WOULD POISON THE REST OF THE BILL. THAT IS A POWERFUL ARGUMENT FOR LEADERS TO TAKE TO THEIR MEMBERS AND SAY, LOOK, THE

PARLIAMENTARIAN HAS BASICALLY SAID THIS IS NOT GERMANE, IT TURNS IT BACK FROM A RECONCILIATION BILL TO A NORMAL BILL, THERE IS NO WAY DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO FUND ICE. I THINK LEADERSHIP ALSO THIS UP AND GET IT PASSED FOR THE VERY REASON. KAILEY: THEN IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF WHETHER HAS LEADERSHIP CAN DO THE SAME. YES, IT IS PARTY-LINE VOTE, IT JUST REQUIRES A SIMPLE MAJORITY. THOSE CAN BE HARD TO COME BY IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE THIS FIGHT LITIGATED ALL OVER AGAIN, ERIK? ERIK: NOTHING IS GUARANTEED. IF YOU STEP BACK, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID THEY ARE GOING TO WITHDRAW THIS FUND. THEY HAVE GIVEN UP TRYING TO GET THE BALLROOM MONEY IN HERE. IN THE GRANDER SCHEME OF THINGS, EVEN IF THE BILL TEXT DOESN'T HAVE IT, THEY HAVE GOTTEN CONCESSIONS, GOP MODERATES HAVE GOTTEN CONCESSIONS HERE. I DO THINK IT WILL PASS THE OTHER DAY, BUT IT IS A SHORT, CLOSE MAJORITY. WE SAW SIX REPUBLICAN ABSENCES YESTERDAY. HAVEN'T HAD A GOOD LOOK AT WHO IS ABSENT TODAY, BUT IT WILL STILL BE WATCH CLOSELY TO SEE IF THEY CAN PULL IT OFF TOMORROW. JOE:

ERIK, THANK YOU SO MUCH. I KNOW YOU WALKED A COUPLE OF MILES FOR US TODAY ALREADY. ERIK WASSON LIVE ON CAPITOL HILL WITH THE VOTE-A-RAMA IN PROGRESS. LESTER MUNSON IS HERE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, PRINCIPAL OF THE INTERNATIONAL PRACTICE AT BGR GROUP, ALONGSIDE DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST JONAE WARTEL. GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH, AND WELCOME. LESTER YOU SPENT A COUPLE YEARS OF YOUR CAREER IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS BACK-AND-FORTH ON THE ANTI-WEAPONIZATION BILL?

CAN IT PASS WITHOUT IT? HOW DO THEY ADDRESS THIS ISSUE? THE FUNDAMENTAL RULE OF THUMB ON THESE VOTE-A-RAMAS IS THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF SHOW VOTES, AND THEY HAPPEN VERY FAST. THE POLICY BEHIND THEM IS NOT VERY WELL DRAWN OUT IN THE LEGISLATION. THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE USED IN POLITICAL ADS LATER IN THE YEAR, TRYING TO PIN PEOPLE DOWN. THERE IS A LOT OF JOCKEYING AND STUFF GOING ON. AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU HAVE A RECONCILIATION BILL THAT HAS WITH THE LEADERSHIP ONCE. IT IS A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY. IT IS GOING TO BE STRIPPED DOWN TO THE THINGS WE NEED WITH THE 51 VOTES AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF WILL FALL AWAY. EXCEPT YOU WILL SEE IT IN A LOT

OF ADS. KAILEY: AS WE CONSIDER ALL OF THE AMENDMENTS IN THIS VOTE-A-RAMA, WE KNOW THAT SENATOR CHRIS COONS, WHO WE JUST SPOKE WITH, OF DELAWARE, DEMOCRAT, WILL BE INTRODUCING AN AMENDMENT ON HIS OWN, AND HE TOLD US THAT A SHORT TIME AGO. SEN. COONS: I HAVE FILED AN AMENDMENT THAT I'M PRESSING TO GET A VOTE ON THIS EVENING THAT WOULD BAR ANY PAYOUTS FROM THIS FUND TO THOSE WHO ASSAULTED POLICE IN THE JANUARY 6 RIOT. WEEKS AGO WHEN I HAD ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL TODD BLANCHE IN FRONT OF ME FOR JUDICIARY APPROPRIATIONS, I PRESSED HIM ON THIS. I SAID, CAN YOU MAKE A COMMITMENT THAT THIS FUND WILL NOT BE USED TO PAY OFF TRUMP'S FAMILY MEMBERS OR BUSINESSES OR THOSE WHO ASSAULTED POLICE AND

WERE CONVICTED OF IT ON JANUARY 6. HE WOULD MAKE NO SUCH COMMITMENT. KAILEY: HE WOULD MAKE NO SUCH COMMITMENT AS THE ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL. BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP WOULD LIKE HIM TO BECOME THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. HE INTENDS TO NOMINATE HIM FULLY FOR THE ROLE, WHICH WOULD REQUIRE CONFIRMATION VOTE IN THE SENATE. DOES THIS WEAPONIZATION ISSUE REAR ITS HEAD ONCE AGAIN WHEN THAT HAPPENS? YES, AND I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS VOTE-A-RAMA AND ALL THE PIECES OF POLICY THAT ARE INCLUDED HERE, I THINK YOU HAVE AN IMPORTANT MOMENT THAT SENATOR COONS MENTIONED, WHICH IS HOW DO YOU POLITICIZE THIS IN A WAY THAT REALLY SHOWS

WHERE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THIS LEADERSHIP IN CONGRESS'S PRIORITIES ARE. WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO TOLERATE, WHO THEY WILLING TO ALLOW POWER, AND WHAT THEIR POLITICAL POSTURE IS IN THE 2026 ELECTION CYCLE? THIS IS LESS ABOUT THE POLICY, LESS ABOUT WHO COMES OUT OF THIS THE WINTER, AND MORE ABOUT WHAT DOES THIS SIGNAL FOR THE ADMINISTRATION AND THIS CONGRESS ABOUT WHO THEY DEEM AS LEADERSHIP, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT RELATES TO JANUARY 6 AND WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS STRUGGLED TO MAKE PEACE WITH THE NARRATIVE AROUND WHO THEY ARE PARDONING, WHO THEY ARE ALLOWING TO LEAD THIS NARRATIVE, AND WHO COMES OUT ON TOP.

IT IS MUCH MORE OF A POLITICAL CONVERSATION, AND I THINK THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS LOSING THAT BATTLE. JOE: THERE WAS A RECORD-LENGTH GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN PROMPTED BY THE NEED FOR REFORMS IN THE EYES OF DEMOCRATS AND ICE AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT. WE ARE ON THE THRESHOLD OF THESE AGENCIES GETTING A LOT MORE MONEY. DEMASKING NEVER HAPPENED, WARRANTLESS RATES STILL INITIATE--WARRANTLESS RAIDS STILL INITIATE. IS IT WORTH IT? JONAE: I THINK DEMOCRATS HAVE MADE THEIR POSITIONS CLEAR HERE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, WHAT HOLDING FORTH THIS MONEY WOULD MEAN FOR THESE LAWLESS AGENCIES.

THEY'RE WINNING THE CONVERSATION IN SAYING THAT IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT WITHHOLDING FUNDS TO FUND THE GOVERNMENT, IT IS ABOUT THESE AGENCIES WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO REIN IN. WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHERE DEMOCRATS HAVE TAKEN THE CONVERSATION ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, I THINK THEY ARE WINNING THE WAR ON THIS POLICY TO SAY THAT FUNDING MEANS FUNDING LAWLESS AGENCIES AND NOT JUST THE GOVERNMENT. JOE: AND YET THESE AGENCIES ARE ABOUT TO GET MORE MONEY THAN THEY ALREADY HAD. KAILEY: $70 BILLION ON TOP OF THE MONEY ALREADY ALLOTTED IN THE FIRST BUDGET RECONCILIATION PACKAGE. I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON TODD BLANCHE AS WELL.

DO YOU THINK HE CAN GET OUT OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, WHICH HAS THOM TILLIS AND JOHN CORNYN ON IT, LET ALONE BE CONFIRMED ON THE FULL SENATE FLOOR? LESTER: THAT IS GOING TO BE SOME REAL SENATE ACTION, MORE THAN THIS VOTE-A-RAMA STUFF WE ARE LOOKING AT TODAY. THERE IS GOING TO BE REAL INTERESTING AND REAL LEVERAGE FOR TILLIS AND CORNET AND OTHER REPUBLICANS WANT TO MAKE THIS AN ISSUE. IF HE DOES NOT GET OUT OF COMMITTEE, HE WILL NOT GET THROUGH THE FLOOR. THINGS ARE TIGHTER THAN THEY USED TO BE, AND HE IS IN THE THINK OF A BUNCH OF CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES. THAT ESSENTIALLY THE REAL BATTLE TO WATCH ON THE RELATIONSHIP -- THAT IS ACTUALLY THE REAL BATTLE TO WATCH ON THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND

SENATE REPUBLICANS. JOE: DO YOU TAKE BLANCHE AT HIS WORD THAT THE ANTI-WEAPONIZATION FUND IS DEAD? PRESIDENT TRUMP IS THE ONE WHO BROUGHT IT BACK TO LIFE WHEN HE SAID, "DON'T KNOW, ASK THE LAWYERS." WHERE DOES THIS STAND IF IT IS NOT HANDLED TONIGHT? LESTER: I SUSPECT PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL NEVER ADMIT HE DID SOMETHING WRONG. SOMEONE ELSE WILL KILL IT AND HE WOULD SAY "WELL, I DIDN'T KILL IT." THAT IS IMPORTANT FOR HIM, HIS POSITION AS SOMEONE WHO IS FLAWLESS, THEN THE ACTUAL POLICY. JOE: SO YOU TAKE BLANCHE AT HIS WORD? LESTER: I SUSPECT IT IS PROBABLY TRUE. THEY KNOW IT IS A POLITICAL DISASTER OF MANEUVER AND THEY WANT TO GET OUT OF THIS AS QUIETLY AS POSSIBLE, AND DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO TALK

ABOUT IT AS MUCH AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN, WHICH IS A SMART POLITICAL MOVE BECAUSE IT LOOKS SO TERRIBLE. KAILEY: SPEAKING OF THINGS THAT DON'T LOOK GREAT TIMINGWISE, THE PRESIDENT TAPPED BILL PULTE TO BE ACTING DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE 10 DAYS BEFORE FISA SECTION 702 IS GOING TO EXPIRE AND A BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT IS NEEDED TO EXTEND THOSE SPY POWERS, WHICH THE ADMINISTRATION ARGUES ARE NECESSARY FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. IS BILL PULTE GOING TO TANK FISA POTENTIALLY NEXT WEEK? THE ISSUE OF BILL PULTE, NOT THE MAN HIMSELF. JONAE: I DON'T THINK SO. WHAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES IS THEY HAVE PLAYED POLITICAL FOOTBALL WITH IT, WITH TULSI GABBARD, HOW HER POSTURE WAS TOWARD LEADING THAT AGENCY.

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS A SUNKEN SHIP. I DO THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE DEMOCRATS PUSH BACK AND REALLY HOLD REPUBLICANS' FEET TO THE FIRE. I DON'T THINK IT IS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION. JOE: WE ARE USED TO ACTING OFFICIALS AROUND HERE. JOE BIDEN HAD ONE AT THE LABOR DEPARTMENT FOR A PRETTY LONG TIME. THE FIRST TERM FROM DONALD TRUMP WAS NO STRANGER TO THIS IDEA. IF THEY CAN'T GET CONFIRMED, DOES THE PRESIDENT KEEP THEM WHERE THEY ARE ON AN ACTING LEVEL? LESTER: THAT IS WHY THEY CHOSE PULTE, BECAUSE HE IS A SENATE- CONFIRMED APPOINTEE AND ADMINISTRATION AND HE CAN DO IT FOR LONGER THAN SOMEONE WHO HAS

NOT BEEN SENATE-CONFIRMED. THE PRESIDENT WANTS SOMEONE HE TRUSTS AND HE IS A LITTLE SKEPTICAL OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, TO PUT IT MILDLY. HE MAY AT THE END OF THE DAY UNDER THAT LOGIC BE A PRETTY GOOD APPOINTEE. IF PRESIDENT TRUMP CAN PERSUADE ENOUGH SENATORS IT IS A GOOD IDEA, MAYBE HE GETS THE JOB. KAILEY: WELL, THAT'S INCREDIBLE TO CONSIDER, AS WE SHOULD REMINDER AUDIENCE, BILL PULTE IS THE ONE WHO TRIED TO UNEARTH WHAT HE SAID WAS EVIDENCE OF MORTGAGE FRAUD FROM THE LIKES OF LISA COOK AND SENATOR ADAM SCHIFF, FOR EXAMPLE. IS HE ABLE TO UNEARTH OF THAT KIND OF DATA IN THE INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES? DO WE KNOW IF HE HAS CLEARANCE?

JONAE: IT PROBABLY DOESN'T MATTER. LAWFULNESS HAS NEVER BEEN THE APPROACH OF APPOINTEES. SO I THINK HE WILL TAKE WHATEVER PERMISSION IS GIVEN TO HIM TO UNEARTH WHATEVER HE NEEDS TO, THAT JUST REALLY SHOWS HOW POLITICIZED ROLES LIKE THIS ONE UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION. LESTER: THIS ISSUE WITH THE FISA REAUTHORIZATION IS ABOUT THE VERY NARROW POINT WHERE THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY CAN SPY ON AMERICANS. IT IS VERY TIGHTLY DEFINED SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES. GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY IS NOT LOOKING INTO AMERICANS' BACKGROUND AND WHATEVER FINANCIAL DEALINGS THEY HAVE ARE THERE AND THAT KIND OF THING.

I'M NOT TOO WORRIED AT THE END OF THE DAY. JOE: WE HAVE BREAKING NEWS, THE PRESIDENT HAS JUST GONE ON TRUTH SOCIAL -- CIRCLE IT ON YOUR CALENDAR, JUNE 24, 7:00 P.M., AND MAGNIFICENT WASHINGTON, D.C. , NOW TOTALLY BEAUTIFIED, ONE OF THE SAFEST CITIES ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, IT WILL BE THE RALLY, THE GREATEST RALLY AT EVERY LEVEL." THEY TOLD PHYSICIANS TO SAY HOME.--MUSICIANS TO STAY HOME. REMEMBERING IT IS AMERICA 250, OR FREEDOM 250 -- YOU WILL HAVE LEE GREENWOOD, CHRISTOPHER MACCHIO, WHO WILL SING "NESSUN DORMA" AND OTHERS. I GUESS RALPH MARSHALL WASN'T AVAILABLE.

--RALPH MACCHIO WASN'T AVAILABLE. LESTER: DO WE GET THE UFC FIGHT? JOE: I THOUGHT VANILLA ICE WAS GOING TO PERFORM. JONAE: 10 ACCEPT PULLED OUT OF THIS. WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN? KAILEY: WE WILL EVEN ON THAT NOTE. OUR POLITICAL PANEL THIS EVENING, THANK YOU FOR JOINING JOE MATHIEU AND MYSELF ON "BALANCE OF POWER" ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO.