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My mom would kind of say if it's like, if it's meant to be, it's up to me. And I think that she was always very independent and she broke all of these barriers in sport. But like it was never a thing because it didn't even like cross her mind that it was like a roadblock. You know? It was just like you just did it. And so I feel like that definitely stemmed with me as far as people say like, oh you're so sure of yourself and like confident. And I'm like, well, because I, I guess I don't even see like the roadblock. Yeah, I'm just kind of like, we'll just do it.
- Welcome back to the Deal. I'm Jason Kelly. - And I'm Alex Rodriguez. - On today's show, Jess Pegula. Alex, I am so interested to talk to her. She's one of the world's best tennis players right now. She's also a chief architect around the business of tennis. - Well that's what I'm really excited about and I really want to dig in into all aspects of the business of tennis and also how much of the pie are the players getting. - That is the question that she's working on right now. Let's also not forget, she's a member of one of the most influential families in all of sports, the Pegulas. Of course, her parents Kim and Terry own the Buffalo Bills
and the Buffalo Sabres. Coming up next, Jess Pegula. Jess Pegula, really such a pleasure to have you here with us. We love tennis. I'm going to confess on both of our behalfs. We have a lot of questions and we may ask you some really dumb questions about the business of tennis. I would like to think it's because we're just a proxy for our audience, but maybe it's because I'm not as smart as I want to be about the this game, even though I love it so much.
We're, we're talking to you a couple days removed from a tournament win in Charleston for you. Congratulations. - Thank you. - You played great. What I found so fascinating Alex, was there's a really interesting business story behind the Charleston Open. Remind us what was going on there with the, the prize money and everything. Because it's, it's a really significant moment it feels like in the history of the sport.
- Definitely. So last year I was, you know, won the tournament back-to-back years now. So last year after the finals they announced that they're going to be equal prize money, which was matching. So it's a WTA 500. So we have like 250s, 500s, 1000s, grand slams. So 500 is, they're usually very strong events. Not quite as big as a, as a tour 1000 event. But everyone kind of has this perception that like men and women, it's equal prize money. It is at the slams but it's actually not at a lot of the other events. So there's a big discrepancy there. And so the tournament owner, Ben Navarro announced that he was going to match basically the WTA 500 prize money
along with that of the a ATP 500 level tournaments. It's a big difference. And so it was a, an amazing announcement and I kind of joked like, oh man, you couldn't have done it this year. But I guess it, it paid off because I was able to win the tournament this year. So it was a big step and I think set a standard very high for all the other tournaments. And sometimes you need just like that one person to do something to kind of raise like that level of commitment. So hopefully we start seeing some of the other tournaments kind of, you know, make their way to that. - So Jess speaking right on that point and congrats on the win back-to-back. That's pretty awesome. You know when you talk about the big
three in America sports, you talk football NFL, MLB, and NBA basketball. Overall- - She's going to say NHL is the fourth because she's an NHL owner. Alex! Come on! - Include the NHL, the big four, the big four. You know, overall it's- - I got your back. Pretty close to 50-50 revenue of what the owners take home and what the players take home. Yeah. Is there a position, and I know you've been a big advocate for the players, where do you see this? Can you ever see this one day getting to 60-40?
- I think it's tough because one, we don't really have like a player's union. We don't really have anyone that like represents the players. And in a way, I think tennis we're very selfish 'cause we're individuals we play individually. And I think to that part it's really hard to get all of us as individual independent people all on the same page as far as that. And so I don't, I don't really know if you'll ever see like a strike or like just, you know, people agree to not play. There's always been talks of it, but like in tennis, you know, you make your money a lot by winning matches. You don't have a set, you don't get paid a salary or get paid anything for just the year, you know.
So I think that always changes everyone's mind as far as like I have to keep playing. I'm not going to take a, I'm not going to strike, I'm not going to boycott, I'm not going to do all these things. So I, I don't know if we'll ever truthfully like looking now just knowing how tennis players are and how they have to be. I don't really know if it'll ever quite get there, but I've definitely been in talks with a lot of the WTA and ATP players as far as joining together to just try to get a higher prize money, revenue, especially from the Grand Slams. I think that's something that can be done. And quite frankly, we've never really had, both the men and the women on both sides actually come together, which is super rare in any sport because when would that really ever happen?
But because it benefits both of us, it's something that's been a topic especially this year as far as just asking for a little bit more. You know. And I think that's something that you have to, you have to ask. You know, you don't, you don't know unless you ask. So I think that's just kind of something that we're headed towards. Hopefully it gets higher, but it's definitely a work in progress and I think it's going to take a lot of unity between a lot of the top players from the ATP and the WTA side.
- Well, and it's also, I mean, and again, I, I'm, I'm interested in, in geeking out a little bit about the mechanics of this because in addition to the independent contractors, there's also not a league in the same way there is in the NBA, the NFL, the NHL or what, you know, the, the tournaments themselves have different business models, which allows a Ben Navarro to say, I'm going to do this in Charleston. But it's more of a like people have to choose to follow him. They're, it's not a set, they don't have to thing. Right. They don't have to. So let me ask this. When it comes to equal pay, the perception is it's like equal pay as you said.
Yeah. And that, that is the case. But where are we in that evolution? Because you've worked a lot on that in terms of actual equal pay across the board for men and women in tennis? - Yeah. You mean in slams or in just like all the other tournaments? - All the other tournaments. - Yeah. I think in the WTA 1000s we've seen a lot of them match equal prize money. Now I think Madrid is equal, Miami's equal, Indian Wells is equal. And again, it's just been something that's been continuously starting to happen and grow. But I think a lot of the lower level tournaments are still not there and that's still a lot of players
that aren't really getting paid the same. And I think where we just want to see like the ecosystem of the sport kind of continue to grow because that means our sport is going to continue to grow and get better and evolve. And again, it's, I hope that with Ben doing what he did kind of sets the standard. Yeah. Because I do think it creates like a healthy competition. I'm on a WTA player council, so I see like more of the tournament side. And I think setting the standards very high and investing in your event is like a really big deal. because that's how you get players to play. That's how you get them to come back.
And then hopefully, you know, you're making more money and so on. And you can make that equal prize money because it's, it's, it's been a process - And it's an interesting thing. I mean I think about it from the perspective of the players are the product, you know, so if like, if the best players aren't showing up, the revenue is not going to be as high for the tournament. I mean it's just not, because people aren't going to tune in, they're not going to buy tickets, they're not going to spend their money there.
- I think like it's gotten so much better because one, I think players are starting to see that. I do think our sport, I, I mean I don't know has is a little bit more open as far as like talking to each other about this stuff. Yeah, I think sometimes in tennis you're like in like selfish of course. I don't mean in like a bad way, but you're in your own little world. You know, because like you said, you're not part of an organization or a team like you are. Like I run my own team basically. Like who's my team?
I control that. It's the same with every other player. So I do feel like that I've been able to talk to a lot of players about it and they're all for it. It's just kind of getting everyone to be all for it at the same time on the same page and then also not kind of burning out with it. I think keeping that narrative going constantly is something that's hard because you know, I think sometimes it can get kind of tiring to talk about it all the time.
Players still want to focus on like their careers and their results and stuff like that. And so I think you get a little burnt out and I think that's kind of what they hope happens, right? Like yeah, they play the long game and so they're - Going to wear you down. - Yeah, yeah. Wear you down. And I think that's where we've been trying to be a little bit more open with keeping that narrative going. And it also goes into like, our season is way too long. Yeah. And so that's been a whole other discussion. I mean we play like, I mean you, you baseball, you guys play a lot of games too.
We play all year and so- - Essentially 11 months a year. - Yeah. And so sometimes tournaments get a little upset but it's, you can't play every single week. Like with the travel, you're traveling every single week, you're going to different places, different conditions, different countries depending on how you do if you're hurt. There's so many factors. So I think that's also like a big part of it that we're trying to change is like how do we condense the season a little bit because these players can't keep up with it. And, - And Jess, if you're not careful,
you're making one hell of a compelling case for the players. And, and Jason, I'm wondering if like, you being one of the great players and one of the leaders of the sport, first of all, all your teams would benefit because the more you know, money you guys make, the more there's for your team as well. And I think all the teams would aligned around that. But I'm wondering if Billie Jean King, if you approached her, said, how do we go about this? And can you set up a little committee, you know, of both men and women? I mean, she likes a good fight. She's - Pretty good at it.
No, trust me, Billy is very supportive. Yeah. She's, we're definitely not lacking any support from Billie. I think she was one of the first people I think we talked to as far as like, there's a lot of issues, but like she was like one of the first ones and she's great. Her and Ilana, like, they text me all the time and they're, they're all for it. So she's, I mean, set the, set the standard and the bar very high for us. Yeah. So I think she's definitely someone where we're like, do you know, do you have our backs? Do you support this? And she's like, you know, all gung ho.
I mean she has so much energy still. It's crazy. - She's, I mean she's unbelievable. I, I don't know if I've ever encountered a force of nature that quite like, truthfully quite like Billie Jean King. You've been very interested and vocal about the business of tennis for a long time. You don't have to be. - No. - You know, you could just go out and play. Yeah. So what is that process like where you make a, make a decision to, to really advocate and and to be a leader, you know, truly like in the lineage of, of Billie and, and others who, who've really advocated not just for themselves but for other players.
- It's been interesting. I don't think I, you know, when I first got asked to just be on like WTA player council, like I, I only did it because a girl retired and they're like, we need someone to fill the spot. And they kind of convinced me and I was like, I don't know if this is for me, but I think- - When was this? - I've been on council like three, four year, almost four years now. I think. Like right after COVID or right- - So you're in your mid to late twenties at that point. - Yeah. And I had no idea about anything. And so I actually think that really helped because all of a sudden you understand more about
how things work and how there's definitely two sides too because I think that's important. I think also learned that from my parents too. Like there, there's the player side and there's also like a business side and sometimes it isn't as black and white as people think. And so I think when you learn that process, it becomes much more clear. And I think the fact that obviously I'm still a player advocating for that, I, I don't know, I've, I gained a lot of respect I think from a lot of different players.
I'm just, I guess trying to be somewhat of a voice and I think it just naturally kind of happened. I don't know if it's my personality a bit, maybe my parents obviously what they've done. Yeah. And just being able to, to think about things pretty clearly, I think from both sides. Because you definitely get, you know, one side where they're all pushing what they want and then you get the player side or they don't want to hear anything else. They just want to, they just want what they want. And so yeah, it was interesting. I just kind of came into it. But I would say being on that player council kind of started that where you just, you learn.
- Yeah. So Jess, I want to talk about your parents a bit and, and your family because as we talked about earlier, you know, truly one of the first families of, of the NFL and the NHL these days. I had a great opportunity in 2020 actually here in Miami to interview your mom and, you know, just amazing insights into the family business. And you know, we've been talking a lot about partnership and relationships with players. There is something special about Buffalo, your hometown. You were, you were born there. What are the lessons specifically you've taken from them as you've thought about your own business journey?
- I would say what my mom always says is that it's just managing people. I think it's probably helped me a bit in what I've had to do. Just as like sometimes you have to adapt, I think to people's personalities or just like know that like, okay, this is how they are. They're really good in this role, but like, maybe they're not the best to talk about this subject. Or maybe it doesn't go as well as it should. And you're like, you, you have to like fit people with what they're good at.
And I think that's something that I've learned with them and I think it was a learning process for them as well. Yeah. And I think that's something also people maybe don't realize is that like owners of teams, there's only so many in the world. You don't, you're not, there's no experience for that until it happens and you like learn by owning that team. Like you don't own a team when you're growing up and then like you like learn about it, right? Get like you have to buy the team. Like you just get the team and it's like, here's like, I don't know, like figure it out - For those listening that there, that was a knowing nod from, from Alex Rodriguez about like, aren't you right?
You learn on the job. Yes you do. - Because if you think about it like no one else, you don't own it. It's just, it's a niche thing. You know, you're successful in other things. But it's, - So speaking of that, let's go back to when you first heard your mom and dad were buying the Buffalo Bills. Tell our audience your feelings. Was it more nervous, excitement like, here we go, or Mom and dad, what are we doing? - So yeah, the Sabres it was like very fun. But then I feel like when the NFL came around, it was like
so much bigger in a sense because now it's like nothing's - Bigger than the NFL, right? Yeah. - Two teams and then the NFL like owning an NFL, like it's just crazy. So I think it definitely, I don't know, it kind of blew up our world a little bit. I didn't feel it as much with the Sabres, but I think when we bought the Bills it definitely like blew up. I don't know. - Your mom took such a strong role - Yeah. From - From the beginning, right? - Yeah. I mean my dad I think always looked at it more as like, he worked so hard all of his life.
Like this is like an amazing thing that I get to do. This is like, I don't want to say a hobby, that's not great to say, but like it's, it was fun. Like he loves sports, he loves athletes, he loves learning from coaches and trying to like do all these things. My mom was I think more of the business side where she loved the business, the fan experience. Like she loved going to all these different games and seeing what all these different teams did and how did they make the fan experience like truly great for them.
She loved that aspect of it. Yeah. So, which is great. I mean, because they were both able to kind of take what they loved and maybe not overstep each other in that sense of kind of, again, learning how to, to run a sports organization. - Do you see yourself, I mean your older sister Laura, I believe has like taken a bigger role in, in the teams. Is that something you might eventually do? Like what, what do you see down the road when it comes to, to the family business in sports? - Yeah. It was funny actually when I was like 15, I like got really into hockey for whatever reason, like really into hockey.
And so I always wanted to be the first female GM. I don't think that's going to happen, but that was like my whole thing. And so I've always wanted to be involved in sports. I love sports. I think it just like, it gave me everything and made me like who I am. It taught me so many lessons and I, I couldn't imagine like not having sports in my life. So I definitely think in some aspect, whether it's tennis or hockey or football, I definitely would love to be involved. I have no idea like what that entails. Yeah, I think my dad would definitely like me to be involved, but he knows tennis is the priority right now.
Sure. So I think he's very cognizant of that. And like he is always like, no, you need to focus on like what you need to focus on now. But yeah, it's, it's something I think that I've, I've wanted to do. And I think being an athlete, I mean, I don't know, maybe you can relate like, I don't know, I'm, I'm definitely going to miss that like competitive side and I think I can get channel some of that through a different way. But I would love to still be involved in sports. Yeah. - It's a pretty good channel I think. Yeah. I mean I've seen you courtside you get pretty into it. - It's spot on. And I don't know how you're competitive but I, I do think to Jason's point, that there's no better way to get a fix
when you're still competitive. You just don't wake up as sore, which is nice. You can just watch. - Yeah. - And it gets easier when you're not, you know, playing. - Yeah. - But I, I think you'll, you'll do great and it's pretty awesome to have that. You know? And it also brings your families together. Like I have two daughters, you have a sister and my daughters thought I was crazy when we bought these teams. My partner Mark has two daughters as well and his daughters probably thought the same thing, but now they're all enjoying it and it brings the family
much closer together. - Yeah I think that is something too that we, when we bought the Sabers specifically, like we definitely came together a lot more as a family because like, you know, I mean it kind of, I don't want to say forces you, but in a way like you're excited together, you're like sharing it together. And I think, you know, that's my parents wanted as well. They wanted us to like do this together and celebrate that. So I think again, it's something not everyone gets to do. It's special. So I think we definitely appreciate that aspect of it.
- Yeah. I mean it's interesting and I mean it, it does become, because there's a, I don't know, there, there's a shared mission about it that, that must be really fun for your family I would guess. Yeah. And stressful. I guess. - I was going to say definitely stressful, but it's, it's a lot of fun. Even when it gets stressful, I think you always try to come back to that point that this is, it's fun and you're doing something special together. Right. And you have to appreciate that. - Yeah. Well and I think, I mean Buffalo is a, is a very special place that loves its teams so much. And so there - And great, great fans.
- Unbelievable, I mean, you know, Bills mafia is well is a real thing. Bills fans. - They're everywhere. I cannot not get away from them. And I play tournaments all over the world and there are still like people in other countries that are like, go Bills, go Sabers. It's crazy. It's amazing though. - Well you, but to be, to be fair, you helped feed it a little bit too because you're, I remember was it at the Australian you wrote, "that was a catch." - Yeah. I have to throw little things out there. Exactly. Sometimes. Yeah. I'm always in Australia during the playoffs so I've had some interesting Australia memories.
Yeah. As far as the last couple playoff years. But yeah, I try to, I think I try to build that bridge especially because there's not a lot of tennis in Buffalo. Virtually none. And I'm like, me and Jimmy Arias are like the only people from Buffalo that like play tennis and to, to our level. So to be able to like bridge the gap there and create new fans is, it's really cool. - Well here, here's an idea. We are on the deal. You are building a new stadium in Buffalo. Maybe you can host a tennis tournament inside your new building.
- Yeah. See that? - That would be actually really, that would be interesting. I don't know. - It would be great. - Not in the winter. Definitely not if it's remotely cold out. - All right, let's do our rapid fire. So this is just first thing that first things that pops into your head. We'll just bounce back and forth. If you had to pick one to put one surface for the rest of your life. Hard court, clay grass, - Hard court.
- Favorite tennis player of all time. - Oh that's so tough. I think probably Roger Federer - Most memorable match of your tennis career? - I would say when I qualified at the US Open for the first time. Qualifying at a slam is really hard. You have to win three matches to get into the main draw. But you're there at the tournament playing. There's crowds, there's people, all this stuff. Good money. And I just remember I won in three sets and I wasn't feeling great that day.
Whether it was nerves or the heat, I don't know. But I just remember I got through that and it was like a very big like mental right kind of break for me - Because that's the show the US Open is the show. Yeah. - And I was younger and I, I came back and I won this match for the, the, it was the last round of qualifying. So to get to the main draw and I just, I think I had lost a couple third round. It's like last round of qualifying before. So it was kind of like monkey off my back. Kind of a big mental breakthrough for me.
It was, it was a lot of things. - What's the most important storyline going into Roland-Garros? Either for you or for tennis? - For tennis. I just know that Iga Świątek has been working She hired a new coach. He used to work with Nadal and then like there's all these videos now of her and Nadal like on the court and all of us are like, oh boy, she's her, clay is her best surface. She's won the French Roland-Garros a lot of times. So I would say that's like a big storyline right now. Because we're all like, oh no, like we're all in trouble. Like - The, the King of clay advising the queen of clay.
- Yeah, exactly. We're like kind of panicking. So yeah, that I think that'll be really, really interesting. But hopefully I, I played good tennis last year so I'm, I feel like I could be a little underdog on the clay this year. - Grand Slam you want to win the most? - Probably US Open. - Who's, is there an athlete whose business career has inspired you the most? Who has it? - I would say Maria Sharapova is very interesting. Like she was an insane competitor. Like fierce on the court, loved fashion, loved business.
Like I thought it was cool how she was able to kind of love all of that and be super successful at all of it. And I think she just has a really cool, like, confidence about her with it. You know, I see her on Shark Tank and I see her doing all these other cool things. You - You see her on The Deal. - Yeah. She was on here. Yeah. I see her like doing all these like really cool ventures and it's always stuff that she's passionate about and stuff that she likes. And just knowing her personality, I, yeah, I think she would be a little bit of an inspiration there. Yeah.
- And we've looked at deals together. Like she's the real deal. Yeah. She walks the walk. It's not her team. When she shows up in a meeting, it's her by herself. - Yeah, right. She's like very quietly like confident. Like funny too. - Oh yeah. She's hilarious. - She makes like funny, hilarious comments like kind of dry and I like relate to that. So I like that. - He's very aware because she made fun of his shoes. - Yes. - Oh, see like, yeah, I can see that. - Yeah. So go, go for it. Just, all right, here we go.
Best piece of advice you've ever been given and who gave it to you? - My, I guess my mom will kind of say if it's like, if it's meant to be, it's up to me. And I think that she was always very independent and she broke all of these barriers in sport. But like, it was never a thing because it didn't even like cross her mind that it was like a roadblock. You know? It was just like you just did it. Her kind of sending that message to not just me, but like our whole family and my brothers and sisters I think helped the most. Yeah.
- All right. So last question. What do the Bills have to do to win a Super Bowl in 27? And what do the Sabres need to do to win the Stanley Cup? - Oh my gosh, that's a tough question. - Hard-hitting questions here. - Yeah. Well the Sabres honestly, they just need to keep doing what they're doing. I like - First playoff appearance in 15 years. - In 15 years. Like came out of kind of nowhere. Everyone's kind of not kind of definitely freaking out. And I think just so fired up the Bills.
I mean, we've put ourselves in good position. I always say just keep putting yourself in the same position and kind of learning from, I don't know, whatever you think you have to change. But Josh is an amazing leader. - Yeah. In Josh you trust, right? - I would just, exactly. I don't really think I would tell him like anything different. Like he's the man, so. - That's Josh Allen. Josh Allen, the quarterback of the Buffalo Bills. Look at you. Look at - My God.
He's learning. He's learning every day. What a lifelong learner you are, Alex Rodriguez. Jess, this has been so much fun. Thank you for joining us. - Yeah, thank you. - Thank you. I appreciate it.
