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When you look at people who are growing up right now, when you look at people in their 20s and 30s, why do they feel confused, lonely, and secretly hurt when, on the outside, everything seems to be going well? Many of the people I work with believe that, on the outside, things are not going well. I think that was more true a few years ago. I think we are now becoming increasingly aware that, even on the outside, things are not going well. But I completely agree with you. I think, as you know, I just read an article about a guy named Eric Erickson, who talks about the stages we go through in life. He was a psychologist or psychiatrist. And he said that many people are going through something
called a silent crisis. Explain it to me, yes. Many of the people you observe are going through a crisis that you will never see. So we're familiar with this idea of a midlife crisis. It's when men like you and me, you know, reach 40, 50, and maybe we're paying off a mortgage, we can't do what we want, maybe we dye our hair, buy a convertible and start driving really fast. But I think it's happening a lot more, and there was an interesting study on LinkedIn that found that 70% of people in their 20s go through something called a quarter-life crisis. It's a time when, in a way, you've taken all the right steps, done what you were supposed to do, but one day you wake up and realize that this is
n't the life you want. I think we're seeing a lot of that, and I think one of the main reasons is that the answers the previous generation gave us used to work. When I was growing up, my parents used to constantly tell me, "Look, you have to become a doctor." And then there's that idea of going to university, getting an education, getting a good job, and then being able to buy a house and live happily ever after, that kind of thing. But I think that formula no longer works. I think our institutions have started to fail us, not in a negative way, but I think if we look at the way psychiatry develops, you know, we'll do research for 20 or 30 years before we discover anything. And even today, studies are still being published on Facebook. And I'm not talking about
meta, I'm talking about Facebook. So this was a trial that started about 8 years ago and whose results are being published now. So the pace of change in the world is increasing rapidly. And we really don't know how to deal with it, and young people are being completely crushed. And it's not affecting-are you saying it's affecting our identity? As you said before, there was almost a path laid out. Yes. And then you had these milestones, indeed: I'm going to college, I'm graduating, I'll get married at a certain age, I'll buy a house at a certain age, I'll retire at a certain age. There were these milestones that were set for you, and
now, whether you go to college or not, there are basically no milestones because the goals have changed, the objectives have changed. Yes, so I don't even know if I think the goals have changed, but I think the biggest problem is that the goals are no longer achievable. To give a simple example, when I went to college, it cost about $5,000 per semester. Yes. $6,000, I think. Well, it only took me five and a half years to graduate from university. Well, it cost me about $30,000 to get a bachelor's degree. I mean, that's the cost of 1 year now. TRUE? So costs are increasing a lot. If we look at this idea of, you
know, getting married at a certain age, and I have many patients who really struggle with this because they feel it's too late. It's as if 50% of people under 30 still lived with their parents. So if you think about how that waterfall happens again. 50% of people under 30 who are adults still live with their parents. Wow, I didn't know that. TRUE? People don't do it in the US or India. Of course. But, but, but, and it's an economic issue because before you could, I mean, think about it, you
know, here in New York, rents are crazy. You can pay around $3,000 for a wardrobe. Know? So now it's not just that people are finishing college, but that they have a lot of debt, there's inflation, people can't get jobs, and then if you think about the ripple effect, if I want to date, right? And I'm like a 27- year-old guy, and if the date goes well, it's like you're saying: Do you want to come back to my place? And then we go back to my house and my partner is there, you know? And then it's like you really can't do that. Yes, yes. So we're seeing a kind of epidemic of loneliness, we're seeing this dating and relationship crisis between men and women, and many young men are going through difficulties, many young women too. And I think
the world we lived in has changed and we need new answers. We need new ways to navigate this world. Yes, I love what you said about how goals are simply unattainable. Yes. Because that's why people feel behind, that's why they feel they're late, that's why they feel they'll never arrive. Now we all use ChatGPT, but a couple of years ago, when I was writing my second book, I started talking about how, if you search on Google, the first thing that comes up when you type "will I ever," which is obviously a question about your future and your chances, is "will I ever find love?" And the second thing that comes to mind is, "Will I ever be enough?"
Oh. Those are the two main questions. Oh. And when you look at it and think, wow, love and self-esteem were the two most searched things on Google at that time. Now, on ChatGPT, I'm sure we'll get a lot more data. But I love what you said about unmet needs. What does someone do with the feeling of being late, of feeling behind, of feeling left behind? That's why I was so excited to come here today. Because you haven't asked me why. You asked what someone does, right? And I think that exemplifies what I appreciate about you, that you 're always focused on what to do, not necessarily on why things happen. So I think if you have that
feeling, there are a couple of important things to do. The first is that this feeling has to do with your sense of identity. So where do you get those expectations from? Who do you think you are? And I don't mean that in a . It sounds really bad, but seriously, who do you think you are? How do you even know who you are? And this is what we see in people who have a quarter-life crisis: they are too busy with identification and do not understand identity. Now, I know it's a bit confusing, but if we think about identification, what does it mean? It means that I'm going to look outside of myself and find a group of people and say that my identity is as if I were now one of those people. Right? Like I'm a goth kid,
or I love football, or I'm a player, right? Or I'm an incel. There are many ways to identify ourselves; we can identify with a political party. But identification and identity are two different things. And I think that when people feel they are falling behind, they have this expectation. They look outwards and say, "This is what it should be." But their information about who they are comes from what they see outside of themselves. And the most important thing you can do, I know it sounds a bit generic, is to look inward. And I mean, really think about how I feel about myself. What do I want in life? I often find that people who feel they are not enough, that feeling comes from trying to make other
people happy and failing. TRUE? So, if my parents want me to be a doctor and I don't go to medical school, which is what happened to me, then you have let them down. And much of our basic sense of identity, the way we socialize, often comes from people outside of ourselves. That's why there's a lot of research on things like attachment theory, which states that a child knows what they feel based on the reflections of the people around them. And my favorite example of this is, you know, when I had a 2-year-old daughter, she would go running and fall. And at one point, what he did was look around. And if everyone else said to her, "Oh my God, are you okay?
", she would start to cry. But if everyone laughed, she would get up and laugh too. So we learn a lot about ourselves from the people around us. I think the problem is that the expectations everyone places on us can no longer be met in the same way. So what you really need to do is ask yourself: Who do I live for? What do I want? What are the expectations I've internalized that shape my value? And what we notice is that if you really think about what the source of your suffering is, there may be pain, but usually what really confuses people are the implications of what happens, right? Oh, yes, for example, if this person doesn't reply to my message in less than an hour, what is that supposed to mean
? It means he doesn't like me. It means he thinks he's better than me. It means there are more important people. We get attached to all sorts of things, and it happens very quickly. It happens subconsciously. That is where our suffering truly comes from Yes, well said. Yes, Buddha called it the second arrow. Like the first arrow, it hurts, it stings, and then the second arrow is the meaning, the story, the implication that you haven't even checked. You haven't checked the facts, you haven't observed, and there it is. Yes, so I'm glad you brought up that example because I was reading that text recently. I do n't think I realized it, so we talked a lot about the second arrow in psychiatry, which is this concept that
life sends you the first arrow. You can't control whether they let you or not. But that's the implication you're giving it, right? So if they let me, it's a done deal. There is a certain degree of pain, a certain degree of sorrow. But then you start telling yourself, "I'm a loser. I 'm not good enough. I'll always be alone." Those are the kinds of thoughts you add to the equation. What's really fascinating about how to stop doing that, this is what blew my mind. I recently read and realized that I had never really looked at the teachings of Buddha. Yes. What had happened was that everyone was talking about the teachings of Buddha, right? But it's like other people talking about Buddha.
Yes, comments, yes. So what I didn't realize is that Buddha actually says the second arrow. In psychiatry we talk about how to avoid pain and negative emotions. Buddha says that the problem with the second arrow is also positive emotions. It says you should also stop associating it with your positive emotions. Yes. When something good happens in life, we get excited. He says, "Don't do that." If you get promoted, that means I'm going to do this, this, and the other thing. Stop doing all that. A promotion is just that, that's all. It has no implications. And what's really fascinating is that's why it 's so difficult for people. Everyone wants to associate good things.
Yes. But nobody wants to give up the associations with bad things. That's not how the brain works. If you want to separate those two things, take something good from your life and analyze in detail the reasons why it generates so much enthusiasm in you. And then let go of that emotion. It's already over. That's all. Observe it. It's in the past. It doesn't mean anything about your future. And if you train on both sides of that coin, then your mastery will increase much faster. Yes of course. As you also know, it is the definition of equanimity in the Gita, that idea that one is not disturbed by happiness or anguish. And that's a really interesting use of words. It's like, "How could you disturb your happiness?"
But that's how you are because you created so much additional meaning that now, when it did n't happen, the promotion didn't even make you happy because you believed that the promotion was your right to something bigger and better, and now you can't even experience the joy of that moment. Of course. And that's what I see. You know, I have like a couple of different groups of patients. And the interesting thing is that I have people who are like 29 years old and live at home, you know, in the basement of their mother's house, playing video games and watching pornography all day. And I also have executives, CEOs, and founders of startups. And they do exactly that. They attribute many things to their happiness. So they end up changing the goalposts.
A promotion is not enough. Now I need another one. And it's nice that you know the quote from the Gita that you said because I think, what does it mean for happiness to disturb you? Literally, the way I try to work with these people is that a disturbance is anything that causes a change in your mind. So your natural state is to be still. Think about when you see a sunset, or are simply at peace, as if you were there with yourself. And even when you get promoted, that creates a disturbance. And the moment you create a disturbance, you are no longer still, you are no longer at peace, and you may be setting yourself up for future disappointment. So, if I were to ask you, what does someone do to truly stop
caring about what other people think? Well, I care a lot about what people think. But I don't let that define my identity. People say negative things to me all the time. The Massachusetts Medical Board reprimanded me. I think that's a good thing. I think it's a healthy thing. I think I sometimes make mistakes in life. And I think that sometimes in life I behave imperfectly. That's why I value what people think. But I also accept that I'm not perfect. TRUE? So , of course I'm going to make mistakes. No.I try not to let that affect my perception of myself. And the key differentiator. Because what many people do-and I think this is the biggest mistake you can make- is if you are.This is what happens,
right? People say, "I care a lot about what other people think. How do I fix that? I'll stop worrying about what other people think." And then you become an idiot. And that causes a lot of problems. The problem is that either extreme of the pendulum is a bad idea. Yes. So accept what people think. Also, add some context. Don't take it literally. Where are this person's criticisms coming from? 90% of the criticism I receive is projection. TRUE? They see something in me that they don't like, but that's not really who I am. So accept the criticism. And he also recognizes that just because someone says something about you, even if it's true, doesn't mean that you are that. Right
? It's one of your attributes. But deep down, you're just a normal human being trying to get by in this world, doing the best you can. And the moment you accept yourself as you are, nothing good happens, but nothing terrible happens either. Things get much easier. Yes, it seems that for most people who follow, whether they call it ego or something else, it gives them the desired outcome, i.e. , I can marry the girl I want or the guy I want, or I get a promotion, I get some more money, it allows me to move to this city, it almost seems like that's a basic level motivator that almost all of us operate on. Yes. It's almost
like the world's general operating system, which is that I need to get this in order to get that. Either it works for you because you get there and get the girl, or it doesn't work for you because you don't get her, and that's where people turn to depression and other things too. It's almost like when your ego isn't satisfied with what it thinks it might, it can end up leading to feeling discouraged, depressed, and lonely. Of course. So I think the ego opens the door to those things. And there is a great deal of evidence of this. And I love your observation that this is the default way. I think that's as far as So, if we look at how human beings evolved, we evolved to care about what
the people around us think. TRUE? So, the exodus from the tribe, the ostracism from the tribe meant death when we were children and couldn't take care of ourselves and things like that. So we lived in these tribal communities. I think society has changed a lot because in those tribal communities we cared a lot about the judgment of other people, but we also had a lot of grassroots connection. You know, I remember I had a friend who was one of the first streamers and I asked him why he quit and he said, "Well, because people on the internet are idiots." And he says, "You know, when I played in arcades, if you were mean to everyone
, nobody was going to play with you, but on the internet you can be mean to anyone and there are no consequences." Yes. We used to have a certain amount of things in our brains, like caring about what people thought, but a certain amount of predetermined connection. People don't give up on you. Yes. In today's world, people are replaceable. Those things worked when they were both there. Now, we have an imbalance where people are replaceable, everyone forgets everything, online dating is like, I can move on, I don't have to choose between 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people. The number of options, Jay, is infinite.
Mhm. I can keep going down, down, and down until I find what I want. Those kinds of things have really changed. And now what we must do is learn a new way of relating to others, of forming our identity. And then, you could say, you can say that this is the limit of physical evolution and that there is a whole strange spiritual perspective on spiritual evolution. But I think this is a skill, and that's why we're seeing an explosion of mindfulness. TRUE? I want to say that it was transformative for you, transformative for me, that these concepts are what you need to survive and thrive in today's world.
Yes. It's almost scary when you put it that way, when you say, "I love that example of, yes, if you were playing a video game in an arcade, generally, if you were decent, people would crowd around you, look at you, and cheer you on." If you were bad at something, maybe someone would walk by and laugh or make fun of you. And now, of course, that's been increasing, and that's what leads to loneliness because people say, "Well, I don't want to put myself out there. I don't want to get on that dating app. I don't want to make a video. I don't want to pursue my passion because, really, if I do that, there will be hundreds of thousands of people-or forget it, there will only be 10 people around me, my own family-who won't
approve of what I'm doing." And so, if someone is in that state right now where they say, "I'm afraid to expose myself from a ' let's pick the dates' perspective because you mentioned dates." I'm afraid to put myself out there from a dating perspective because I think I'm replaceable. In fact, I'm even afraid to believe that there's a real connection. I don't even know if there's anyone out there for me. How do I start working against the math and the algorithm that I feel are against me? This is the first time I'm going to say I don't know. Well, I think dating is something I've focused on a lot over the past year. But in terms of what I understand and what I know, I was lucky. So I found my life partner before things
got really tough. Yes. And I think if you're not that kind of person, this is the area where I feel like I do n't know. So, some of the things I will do, and this is why I like the type of content I produce, is that I basically created this meditation guide. And the best answer I have is to start using some of these concepts, to start internalizing some of these skills. If we look at the way dating in today's world leaves scars, that implies blows to your ego. That includes things like samskaras, and we also have a guide on trauma, where we delve deeper into that. But if we think about why dating is so difficult, this is a Sanskrit concept of something called samskara. So, this is like a
trauma. So if you think about every person you date, you're not just dating that one person. You are carrying the emotional baggage of all your experiences. And this is why online dating is a disaster, because if you date someone online, they're not judging you based on who you are. They are judging you based on all their past experiences. And yours. And yours, right? So, when someone doesn't send text messages. your mind associates that. TRUE? Like, oh, this means they're ignoring me. Why do you interpret that as them ignoring you? Because I've been ignored before and it hurt a lot. So, as we move forward in life, we begin to accumulate experience. And then what happens is that we are not dealing with a person. We are
portraying that person, and I'm sure there are people in the audience who have felt this. Where people don't judge you for who you are, they see a small fraction of you and transfer all their negative experiences to such people. All men are dangerous. All women, you can't trust women. TRUE? So where do these generalizations come from? And we see this a lot, we receive this type of indoctrination through social media, but the root of the psychological damage is there. And so, the best thing I know how to do is teach people. We're going to give you a course about yourself. Yes. That's how it works. And that's really what I learned in India. When I was here in the United States, they would teach me physics, they would
teach me chemistry. Nobody could explain to me why I want to wake up at 8:00 a.m. m. But I never do it. I want to stop playing video games, but I can't control myself. And so, as we teach people, it's interesting because we have a lot of incels who have been coming to our community over the past few years and are starting to improve. As you teach people, that's how I work. This is where my ego comes from. I want a relationship so badly that I'm going to tolerate abuse because I'm afraid of being alone. I'd rather be abused than be alone. So, once you start to understand these things about yourself, once you start to dissolve your ego a little, once you start to realize what your solar scars are, what is the emotional baggage you carry with you that sabotages all
your interactions? And the way you know this is happening is because the same crap keeps happening to you over and over again. This person is taking advantage of you. That's because you were sending a signal that they 're picking up. Because they test the limits. They will treat you somewhat inappropriately and you will accept it. Or they detect that you are a people- pleaser and that you cannot tolerate someone getting angry. This is one of the most important things I think we have taught people to do: to tolerate. People have become intolerant of the dissatisfaction of others. If someone doesn't like me, I ca n't stand it anymore. And so, as you begin to notice
some of these patterns, I think you're becoming a better human being, and then, fingers crossed, it's up to karma, God, the universe, whatever, or the algorithm. But I think the best advice I can give people is to become the healthiest human being they can be, and then the rest will be out of their control. Yes. In fact, I find that approach quite refreshing. And I think it's true. You simply get a better radar. You gain a better ability to detect frequencies. And I'm not referring to a spiritual level. I'm only referring to a general human level. As you just said, you set your boundaries better. You have better barriers.
You have better filters from the start. You don't allow someone with bad behavior to stay longer than they should. Of course. And all those things save you from wasting time and energy. And I think one of the most important things is that you don't allow your old romanticized Hollywood or Disney version that was programmed into you to run the program again every time you feel like it. So, I think a lot of this goes back to the same thing. It's like you do n't let that old circuit take over again, even if you've learned all these new principles and you're meditating and mindful and all that, but can it happen again?
Yes. Because it's very well planned. And in the end, sometimes you see that people are doing everything right, but then they meet someone they traditionally found attractive, and then it all goes out the window. Yes, I think it's really uncomfortable. It's a beautiful example because you do everything you're supposed to do, but you never do the one thing you really need to do. Yes. I see this all the time in my patients. And I think you offered the best example, which is finding someone you're attracted to. And what many people need to do is start noticing the people they are not attracted to. Not simply accepting that
attraction. Because when you follow that kind of attraction, it pulls you back into the same cycle. I'm going to meditate, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that, but then this type of person appears and I'm going to make the same damn mistake again. Right I think another thing is that sometimes, when my patients come in and we talk about dating and relationships, they say, as they say, but. But it sounds like Dr. K is saying I shouldn't be myself. And I say, yes, you shouldn't. I think being yourself, I know this sounds a little strange, but let me explain. Being yourself is one of the worst things you can do. What created this version of you? A lot of unconscious programming, a lot of social conditioning, a lot of trauma, right? All
these things have made you the current version of yourself. So, I think the real you is much more formless and without ego and all that kind of stuff. In fact, we need to dismantle it. Don't limit yourself to being this set of patterns. That's what they often mean. They say things like, you know, if you can't stand me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best. So, I'm going to keep acting at my worst. This is what we tell people today. I think it's a terrible idea. And we wonder why there's such a crisis in dating and relationships when everyone says, 'I'm just going to be me.' If you don't like it, you can move on. I'm going to keep going too.
We are all replaceable. I don't need to change. TRUE? So I think we need to take a step back and try to become the best human beings we can be. And then I think things will change, which is what I see quite consistently. Yes. At least you have the tools. Yes. As you said, they may not solve all your problems, but at least you have the tools to know what to do about them. What do you think it means? You talk a lot about masculinity, which I really appreciate because I think it's an area that the entire country we live in is grappling with right now. Yes. The world is dealing with it, no doubt. What does it mean to be a man right now? Do Yes. Yes, I mean, I.I don't.
I don't.Yes, what confuses people, I suppose, is the question. Yes, well, I don't prescribe. Well, masculinity, my interpretation of the scientific or bibliographic definition, is like the set of behaviors and expectations that we place on men. That's not the perspective I work from. So, if you ask me about masculinity, I'd say ask someone else. I mean, I'm going to talk about it, but just so you know, I'm a doctor. Yes. So, I focus on one person at a time. Mhm. So, what I think is happening right now, uh, you know, a very interesting video recently came out that generated a lot of controversy about why women prefer beta males. Mhm.
Well, this is a very important thing where everyone says, "I'm going to be an alpha," and there's a lot of weird science that people don't understand. So, as a simple example of what masculinity is, everyone wants to be muscular. There is a large study that analyzed something called muscle drive. Mhm. Well, it's not about how muscular you are, but how much you want to be. The greater your drive for muscle mass, the less likely you are to enter into a long-term relationship. You can establish short-term relationships. Higher probability of divorce. And I think there's a lot of confusion, because many
women are saying that what we want is to feel safe, not a guy who's too muscular. And therefore, there is a lot of confusion about what it means to be a man. I think one of the reasons for the confusion is the way men and women function. Therefore, there is a part of men that focuses on intra-male competition. So I'm going to talk a little bit about animals, and I don't think that will translate 100%, so there's a big warning. But, if you look at something like, you know, a pride of lions, right? The males fight among themselves, and then one male will rise to the top, and then become the male of the pack. So, there's this idea that men will fight each other, create a hierarchy, and that will make them attractive to women. And I know it was
really strange. Once I got married and started wearing a wedding ring, I received a lot more female attention. So, I think there's some truth to that, but I think that after having spent a lot of time working with female patients , each one is an individual. We are not just products of our biology. And I think this is what really confuses men, that we can fight amongst ourselves, but that's not really what women want. That is not the basis on which they actually make their decisions. I think a large part of masculinity today consists of men trying to be as manly as possible. In the alpha direction. And I think people get too confused because, in reality, that doesn't translate into
achieving happiness. If it doesn't translate into happiness, you know, these guys, I've worked with a lot of men who are very into transactional relationships because they genuinely believe that human females, that these general principles of how lions select mates, will transfer to an individual person who has a unique genetic makeup, a unique history, and that doesn't work. Therefore, they approach this relationship in a transactional way. They think things like, "Oh, all women want is money." So, if I approach a relationship from a transactional perspective, if I see a woman as a biological womb, women who
want a relationship will run away. Women who are confident enough will say, "This guy is a jerk." They will leave. And so, all you'll be left with are women who also see relationships as transactional. And that will contribute to giving you the idea that: "Well, this is all women want." " Because all the women who don't want that will never date you in the first place. That's why I think we're seeing a lot of these mechanisms at play. I think a lot of this masculinity is because we expect so much from men. But because men don't live up to those expectations-because I think they're unreasonable-we're not really giving them an alternative.
Yes. That's why I think, you know, the research shows that most women still want to date a man who earns more money than they do. But over 60 percent of the people going to college now are women. So what's happened is that men are in a really tough spot where the expectations for men haven't changed. But society has changed. That's why we can't live up to those expectations anymore. And that's why there's a really interesting gap. And when people feel crushed and rejected, the ego kicks in , and we fall into all these unhealthy behaviors like pornography, drugs, video games, and things like that to soothe our internal environment. We don't teach boys or men emotional regulation skills." So, I think it's like a
confluence of a thousand things happening, and men are kind of crushed and squeezed. We know we need to exercise. Everyone knows they need to take 10,000 steps a day. We don't take 10,000 steps a day. Everyone knows they need to eat better, but we just keep, you know, making all the fast-food companies richer and richer. What's the disconnect there? So, I think the biggest disconnect is that information doesn't change behavior. For example, I once had a patient. This was bad , but I once had a patient who was a medical student. And then, he came in and he was smoking. And I tried to tell him, "Hey, smoking will give you lung cancer." " Smoking will give you heart disease." And he said, "Yes, doctor, I know."
And I said, "Yes, I'm a medical student." And he said, "Yes, I know, but you're basically a doctor." Well, like: "Yes, doctor, I know." He says, "I'm going to stop. I'll quit. I promise." "He comes a month later." " How's your smoking habit going?" "Oh, yes, I know I'm supposed to do it." "It's not working." And I said to him, "Well, maybe you'd like some medication for that." And he said to me, " Of course, doctor. Give me the medicine." He comes back a month later. "Are you taking the medication?" "Actually, no." "Well, we're going to give you nicotine gum. Let's try this." He's not doing it, he's not doing it, he's not doing it. So, I was, you know, working with my
tutor and I read something about addiction and stuff like that. And I realized that you have to motivate him. So, next time I come, I'll take a different approach. I said to him, "Well, tell me about yourself. Tell me, you know, what excites you." And he says, 'You know, I love being a father. I have three daughters. And, you know, I'll die happy the moment the last one gets married because I know they're well taken care of and it's going to be a great day, just like my eldest daughter's. It was incredible, walking her down the aisle was one of the best experiences I've ever had. Then I ask him: 'Great. you want to carry an oxygen tank behind you? And do you want to push a wheelchair when your
third daughter gets married? And he says, 'No. TRUE?'. As if I had said something very bad. I thought, 'That's what's going to happen if you don't quit smoking.' And that was brutal. I wouldn't recommend it. I was still learning. I am still a medical student. But I believe that many behavioral changes come from internal motivation. You have to have a good reason to do it. Not like an intellectual who thinks, "Oh, this is like not having cancer in 40 years." Your brain doesn't understand it. This is what people don't understand. When I tell you to do this or you'll get cancer, how does your brain know what it feels like to have cancer? If you touch a hot pan, your brain knows it. He says: "Okay." And it's difficult to touch a hot pan. But how does
your brain know something so hypothetical? He doesn't know. So the information goes to this part of our brain that doesn't actually shape our behavior. Our emotions shape our behavior. So if you think about when you get angry, everyone tells you not to act. For. Slow down. Don't act. Wait, when you get angry, you feel like acting. So the first thing we need to do is focus more on finding our correct emotional reason. What is the reason for your change? What is really driving you to change? The more you connect with it, the more useful the information will be. There is another very interesting answer. That's a great answer Another thing I would say is that many people do n't realize, I don't know if this makes sense, but there is something called
ambivalence, which is when we have internal conflicts. And every time someone wants to change, there's a part of us that wants to change, but there's another part that doesn't want to change. Yes. So, when we want to change, I tend to think about the benefit. So, right now, my brain is telling me things like, "Oh, we want to get healthy." But you think about the profit when you start. But as you start, you see the cost. So, when I go to the gym, all I do is suffer. And then what happens is that the cost becomes very large in my mind because now I am paying the cost or feeling the cost. This is very hard and the benefit is a long way off. So, when I start, I think about the goal. I think about the benefit, but I don't really value the
cost. When I do it, I feel the cost, but I don't think about the benefit. That's why one of the biggest mistakes you can make is thinking about the benefit when you want to do something. Interesting. Therefore, what you should do is focus on the cost. Tell yourself: "Okay, this is going to be difficult." Right? As if going to the gym was a load of crap. And accept the cost upfront. Do I want this? Yes, but you have to balance it. That's why when we have high expectations, we tend to have little follow-through. Yes. And when we have low expectations, if you tell yourself, "Look, this is going to be awful, I'm going to do it anyway." That's the approach you should take. Now, many people will say,
"But I don't do it anyway." And that's where you really have to look for a reason. How do you define the purpose? What do you observe in the 20 weeks? What do you try to get people to do? The curious thing about the purpose is that it's not what everyone thinks it is. The way you find your purpose is a bit contradictory. Actually, it implies.I don't know what the purpose is. Perhaps we can ask you. But what we do know is what the scientific mechanisms are. So, if I take someone who doesn't have a purpose in life and I take someone who does, what do they do differently?
Yes, great. That's what we're trying to change. Good question, yes. So, the first thing is self-direction. As long as life goes on and you don't make your own decisions, the moment you are forced to choose them, you will feel completely disoriented. Yes. This is a bit contradictory, but the first thing I tell people to do is to start making decisions. Yes. And then the first question they ask me is, "How do I know what's right or wrong?" That doesn't really matter. What matters in your brain is that you choose. Yes. And all of this is truly insidious. If you think about what is right or wrong, if you figure out what is right or wrong, you are not making the decision.
Yes. The world tells you that this is right and this is wrong. The world makes the decision for you. This is correct and this is incorrect. Forget about right or wrong and make a decision. I don't care which one it is. Choose matcha instead of coffee. Put on your left shoe first, then your right. Start brushing your left teeth or use your left hand. So you have to start making decisions. There is a beautiful element about anxiety that we can talk about there. It will also drastically help your anxiety. The second thing you need to do is expand your capacity. So, we feel that we have a purpose in life because it is
not a purpose, but this is literally what the scientific composition of purpose is: to expand your capacity. Therefore, we always feel overwhelmed. I don't want to do it. I want to do the bare minimum. We are a society of people who do the bare minimum. We are a society of people whose companies use chat, GPT, and AI to review applications. Now everyone uses AI to look for a job. It's just AI talking to AI. We are trying to do as little as possible and we are seeing an epidemic of lack of purpose. We are seeing an epidemic of pornography consumption. But that's because in your brain these two things are connected. The moment you expand your capabilities, once again, it does
n't matter what you're doing. If you swim 10 laps, swim 11. If you wake up at 7:00 every day, get up at 6:59. This is the beautiful thing. The content of what you do is completely irrelevant, not completely irrelevant. That's not bad. That's wrong. But the key thing is that you expand your capabilities. I didn't think I was capable of this. You don't even have to be successful. You just have to put in the effort. I didn't think I could do this. It turns out I was wrong. At least I tried. When you start thinking this way right? When I ask someone if they like a quick thought experiment, we're always afraid to give it our all and fail. But when you give it your all, how do you usually feel?
You can usually sleep at night. As long as things like ego and stuff don't get in the way, right? At least I tried my best. That might give you a good idea. That's a tough lesson I learned in medical school because in residency it's like, you know, what helps me sleep at night isn't whether the patient lives or dies. Did I give it my all? Did I do everything in my power to try to help this person? And if I did it, the rest is out of my hands. Right? So you have to give it your all . The third thing, and this is the most difficult, is the relationship. So people have to be able to see you. and respond to your true self. It doesn't necessarily have to be positive. A certain degree of acceptance; accepting that
person is good. But other people need to be able to see who you are. And that's really difficult because people don't have the attention for that. Everyone is on their cell phones. So I believe that if you cultivate these three things, your sense of purpose will increase in life. Mhm. Is that fresh. I like that. I like that you used what you would see as the difference between a person with purpose and someone without purpose to find which path to take. Yes, so I think what's really confusing is when people think about purpose. Like if I were to ask you, Jay, what is your purpose? How would you answer that? If you were to ask me, what is my purpose? "Yes, my purpose would be to make ancient wisdom
accessible, relevant, and practical for the modern person. Perfect, right? Well, that's what most people think it is. They think it's something like that Yeah, yeah, sure. Right? But here's what I want people to understand. If you really think about it, how do you know if you have a purpose or not? Absolutely. It's not that. It's an internal feeling. For example, I wake up every day, I guess you wake up and say, 'I have a purpose.'" Yes.
It's an internal feeling. Mhm. So, how do we cultivate that inner feeling? With these three things. Yes. I love that. Dr. K, I could talk to you for hours. I know I have to book another date with her because this is so funny and we didn't even like it. There are many things we could talk about. But we end each On Purpose interview with five final questions. These questions should be answered with a word or a sentence at most Okay. Okay, Dr. K, these are your final five questions Okay, let's do it. The number one question is, what is the best advice you have ever heard or received? Or given. The best advice I have ever heard, received, or given. Can we move on to the second one while I think about it? The second one is usually more difficult. What's the
worst advice you've ever heard, received, or given? The most important thing that comes to mind right now is to be yourself. Yes, I agree that it's really bad advice. I'm so glad you said that because I was on tour earlier this year and I literally said it on stage. I thought, "If someone tells you to be yourself, it's the worst advice in the world." "That makes me happy. Question number three, what's something you used to believe was true that you no longer believe? I can relate to. I raise my hand
for that. That's a great answer. Question number four, what's something other people disagree with you on but that you would fight to the end for? I do n't know if I would fight for this, but I think the most important thing is that I believe some of this consciousness thing is real. I believe there's a whole dimension of human existence that science can't answer with a single word, but I believe there's a whole, I believe there's a layer of reality that can only be experienced subjectively. Mhm. Great answer. Fifth and final question. If you could create-we ask this of every guest who's been on the show-if you could create one law that everyone in the world would have to follow, what would it be? I would never do that. I really wouldn't. I'll
edit it for you. If you could create a I'm very reluctant to do one thing forever. Everyone, interesting. Right? It's like I don't think, I don't believe in it, yeah. Interesting. But I think I really do think, I mean, I've learned this the hard way. The moment I assume that anyone who comes into my office overlaps even a little with someone else, that's the moment. That's a great answer. Yeah, I love that. Do you want to give the best advice again? Oh, wait. Yeah, the best advice I would give is to focus more on what's happening and less on what you're doing.
Focus more on what's happening and less on what you're doing. Yeah. I like that. Observe, observe, focus on the observation. people don't realize the consequences of their actions. Mhm. Just to give you a very specific example Simply put, we have many children using iPads right now. And often parents do n't realize that when your child throws a tantrum and you give them the iPad to calm down, you're just training them to throw another tantrum. In the case of slightly older children, many parents tell them, "Hey, come down for dinner." Come down for dinner. "Come down for dinner." The boy doesn't show up for dinner. He arrives 15 minutes late. You go upstairs, unplug the
PlayStation, and say, "No PlayStation for a month." So, what you're actually training your child to do is ignore your words until you unplug the PlayStation. Does it make sense? Yes. So, like the first six times you say something, you're not reinforcing it at all. TRUE? So, you 're actually training him to ignore what you say, which is why you have to deceive him, and then you have to take drastic action to make him listen to you. And the parents feel crazy because now I have to go and yell at you all the time to get you to do something. That's because when you speak delicately, there are no consequences.
Mhm. So, link the consequence to delicacy, not the consequence to shouting. Because if you link the consequence to shouting, you'll have to shout again. This is how they will train. Mhm. So pay attention to what's happening, Mhm. no to what you're doing. Mhm. That's a great explanation. I love it. If this clip has provided you with value and you want to see more, this next video has been specially chosen for you based on your viewing habits. I hope you enjoy it. And if so, subscribe to the channel so we can continue to bring you fantastic conversations.
