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may do a double take watching the Brazil campaign trail. First glance, it's easy to confuse Flavio with his father, Jaier Balssonaru. He even wears his father's yellow campaign shirt on the rallies, a bulletproof vest as well. The 45-year-old senator for Rio State has served seven years in office. He wants the mantle. His father once held the power of the presidency. It's not been plain sailing. There's been a succession-like internal battle in the dynasty. He's often being called simply number one by his father who's now under house arrest. Number two and three his other brothers Carlos and Eduardo.
Analysts say he is both trying to show how similar to his father he is yet trying to distance himself at the same time. It's a very difficult balance. So Flavio is not without controversy himself. There's lingering questions about uh corruption in those in his circle which he denies. So who exactly is Flavio? What would he do for and to Brazil? Enrique Tvarez Fetardo is an international senior lecturer in politics and international relations, a longtime analyst on Brazil at the University of West of England. Great to see you, Enrique K tonight. Tell me, what are the essentials to know about this character for the forming of a possible president? You know, who is behind the political persona?
Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me. Um it is not as you say the Bossero campaign been trying to paint a um a picture of Flavio as a more moderate version of his father which in a sense is they're just playing by the playbook of the international right uh really uh I don't I do not think the electors will be fooled um although Bosaro has Flavio has come out mentioning that he is not particularly an antivaxer Unlike his father and in other interests this he seems to be more polite but essentially he belongs to the political project and he advances the political project of his father. Um to make since this is France 24 to make a comparison that would be probably well imagine if Marin Le Pan was the
firstborn son of General Rose Salon. Um, that's basically who Flavio Bossaru is. It's interesting because I mentioned this kind of the donastic element to it in a minute. I'd like your take on that because I just want to we see this character, we see him in rallies and I mentioned you can kind of do a double take. It is very striking and resemblance a younger version of his father. Is he seen as charismatic? And I ask about the base because if he's got a similar base, is it a base who are voting for him because he's part of the dynasty or they believe in him as the person he's offering something different?
I find it very hard to believe that they believe in him as someone different uh or that he has any charisma going into this. Um essentially one of the things we can't rule out in this context is uh something called anti-patismo basically um antipathy towards the working the workers party and Lula and the figure of Lula himself the biggest thing that Bosanaru Jr represents today to the country is that he is in Lula and he is uh the strongest candidate who can beat him potentially. Um I he's for me from where I see it in my analysis he is an entire product of his father's legacy and can we talk about his father and his stepmother as well because take us into this kind of power struggle that's been
going on with Michelle because as I understand it his stepmother she wants to be or she has visions many around her say of a potential presidency and it wasn't that comfortable for her to watch her husband's son going for it this time and at one point she broke off from him completely, didn't she? Yes. There's been some scruffles within the, as you say, the donastic transition um if you may um between her and Flavio. And what's going on right now is uh they're both fighting to see who gets the right to claim the mantle of Bosnadismo. Um and so far it seems like Flavio is getting the upper hand. Tell us more about that. What was it that's caused that problem? You know, this because she he didn't consult her
that she felt offended that he didn't come to her for political blessing. Well, there are several narratives going on and I'm I'm not privy to all of them, but the essential point is that she believed uh she was the natural successor to Bosanaro's um Bosaro's legacy and so did him. Um so they got into a scruffle and we are where we are. But again, I think that the personal aspect of it is less important than um honestly I think this election is about um the strength of Bosadis as a movement detached from the figure of J Bosanaro that is very in my perspective this is a more important question it's but without knowing the person and even if it is a person who's behind the movement we kind of need to know and
distinguish between the two this is this is riding on his father's coattails and perhaps whilst it's unfair the economist headline vengeful nepo baby perhaps many analysts might say it's not too far from the truth now he says he's more moderate he says he's he's not his father and I wonder about where you see that calculation and whether there is there reason to believe that his father sat in house arrest if Flavio takes the throne of the presidency the one pulling the strings is Ja well your guess is as good as mine in that sense But I believe that um he certainly well he would like to portray himself as more moderate. As I said in the beginning, this is the playbook of the international global farright. This
this is what they do. This is what they've been doing since the 60s. And um specifically given the toxic legacy of Bosanaro's mismanagement, I mean Bossaro senior's mismanagement of the pandemic in Brazil that left 700,000 people dead. um he would very much like to portray himself as something different from that, right? Other than that, more moderate, um less inclined to dispute scientific facts and whatnot. But I but his entire political career was based on his father's legacy. We're talking about someone who started his political career at the age of 19 due to his father uh his father's doing. So it's very hard to believe that wouldn't maybe perhaps I wouldn't go as far as to say that
Bosanaro senior would be pulling the strings but I can't see anything that distances himself from his father. Do any of his policies that you see distance him from his father? When we just talk us in about some of those I think one of them he wants to see El Salvador style prisons doesn't he? and he talks kind of similar terms of drug dealers and how he wants to neutralize people that his father did. Tell me where you see any differences in policy and the course that Brazil might take if Lavio becomes president. No, I don't. As a matter of fact, I don't. What I do see is a concerted effort to measure the tone and the rhetoric, but the policies and the
policies are what matter at the end of the day. They're very similar. Uh it's the sort of mono duro zero um uh zero tolerance with crime uh pushing for straighter and tighter links with the United States with the Bosanero clan already has um in their pocket in a sense. So um I cannot see a distance in terms of politics. What I see is a distance in terms of rhetoric. Tell us about the other two number two and number three Enrique when it comes to Carlos and Eduardo and whether there are tensions there or whether they're all you know we have what Eduardo in the US this is where the kind of allegations
from Lula is that uh the family and Flavio is therefore Trump's candidate. Tell us about that kind of the political dynamic of well one brother's a senator the other one seems to be politically involved and yet can't go back into Brazil very easily can he? No, no, he can't. And uh the ideas that he the suspicions that has been articulated, the uh links between the Bosnar campaign and the clan, the family more generally speaking, and uh the support he receives from America. Um in terms of the latest scandal involving um the sort of contributions, the donations for a potential film on the history of Bosanaro, the so-called dark horse scandal, Eduardo was a uh a strong element liazing between north and south
of the Americas if you may. Um so he is a player. I don't see him uh challenging his brother at any point in time. I mean this is you have to remember this is a military family and they abide by hierarchical values in that sense. So I think that I can't see his siblings um challenging his claim anytime soon. If we look at the base largely the Bolsinaro base is what many Catholics it's often on religious grounds that those you believe in the Bolsinaro uh you know particularly when it comes to Christian conservatives. I saw some articles in Brazil this week talking about whether Flavio is upsetting the gods. There seems to be an issue splitting the evangelical base and it's about the patron saint of Brazil
and whether or not a statue will be removed. Now, sometimes these last minute issues can actually topple uh the election one where or another. What's going on there? His strongest base of support by far and large is the evangelical movement in Brazil, the Christian evangelical movement. um but also the Christian movement in general. Um what is happening at the moment is that we've seen um some distances and cleavages and and controversies surrounding the sort the potential Catholic vote to Bosaru due to these uh this particular episode you mentioned um particular with the confederation of bishops announcing uh something which had undertones of moving
towards pushing Catholics towards a an anti-bosaric vote. Um but nothing was overt and um I mean the bosnism is a mass movement and like every single mass movement it has a diverse and heterogeneous base. Uh so Christian in particular Christian fundamentalism is a big and strong part of it but it's not the only part of it. Uh so it could have a strong effect but maybe [clears throat] not a decisive one. Now, I mentioned that the spectre of President Trump. There's also a spectre there's a Playboy banker that's associated with corruption who denies it. That seems to be a spectre on both of these candidates.
Tell us how that is linked to Flavio. What's going on there? Well, Flavio is uh do you mean in terms of the Nvakaro, the banker? Yeah. Or just Trump? Yes. No. The banker. Tell us about this. Well, it is very this uh particular corruption scandal has taken Brazil I won't say by surprise but uh is shaken a little bit politics in the run out in the running into this election. But the effect on both candidates is very different. I mean, um, whereas we can't claim that Lula met with Dvaro more than once at a meeting, uh, at the presidency palace, uh, Flavio has been in direct contact. He treats Varo as a brother. I mean that we
have phone calls where he um he recordedly called him a brother and asked for donations at the value of 61 million eyes to produce this film um about the so-called dark horse film which um had the involvement of uh well the namescape me Trump's previous adviser um in its production uh it didn't happen. But Flavin Boser is completely involved to a different standard. He claims that nothing bad happened, nothing illegal happened, but it's very clear that he has strong connections with Okaro. And not only that, there had been several corruption scandals um in the recent past concerning his person.
[snorts] Is that likely to move the needle though? I mean, I talk about the spectrum of Trump. I hear this within Brazilian media that there are allegations circling of corruption which he denies and links to this particular banker this character. But actually is that one of the issues that you see moving the needle and ultimately if we fast forward a couple of weeks you know when we see what Luler's base right now seems to be around about where it might end. Certainly his camp is worried that the other candidates what 10 other candidates in this race they're mostly on the right aren't they? So actually we could be looking at a situation where the second round benefits very much. Flavio.
Uh well uh it is this is right on one hand. Uh on another hand I wouldn't put it past Lula. He's look you have to understand that he is a master of political bargaining and uh he is very wellversed in creating coalitions. This is what Brazilian politics is all about is a representative system that requires parties to build strong and large coalitions and Lula is very good and has proven to be excellent at that. So it wouldn't surprise me if he managed to get some support even from the right because as um well so you've mentioned earlier the problem of polarization. Uh I think that what we have currently is more a one-sided radicalization produced and spearheaded by the Bosanara
movement. Uh I think that if Lula can muster his powers of uh coalition building, he can get some support from the right. But you're completely right to say that it's not a done deal and [clears throat] u it looks challenging ahead. Yeah, it's good to talk to Enrique. I think the character you were talking about who's named in the reporting of the dark horse film was Steve Bannon. Um Steve Bannon. Thank you. Good to talk to you as always. Enrique Tavvarz Fardo, international senior lecture in politics and international relations at the University of West of England.
