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I have a feeling that there is a group of people today who truly believe that they have to trust themselves to make a difference in their lives. They need to develop this skill and are trying to figure out how to gain confidence. Could you explain to me what security means to you? When I hear people say they want to gain confidence, the reason it 's so hard to do is because confidence is an achievement. Not an input. So, if you think about it, you don't get confident by trying to be confident.
Often, confidence comes after gaining expertise in something. And so, as far as I'm concerned, I didn't realize it. In fact, when I was 19, I was overweight, drinking and doing drugs and was completely in a whirlwind. I remember literally having a mirror in my bathroom with affirmations written on it. I sat there and repeated these affirmations to myself. I said, "I'm beautiful. I can do this. I work hard. I have money. I'm rich." I read them and I remember thinking, " None of this is true." I felt really weird because I kept thinking this was supposed to work. This is what I should have done. And then nothing happened. And I asked myself, "Why don't I feel
confident?" I was insanely insecure. And by the way, people who know me very well would say that I'm still quite insecure. As if it were in different fields. I kept waiting to feel ready. And then I realized that you never feel ready until the second time you do something. And that's because to feel confident, which in my opinion means feeling ready, you have to become competent in something. And the only way to gain expertise is to gain evidence that you can actually do something . To do this, you have to pay the price, which is to say, never having done something before. And so, it wasn't until I said, "I'm so tired of being in my head trying to think for security." Instead, I need to take action
to gain confidence. How could I have done that? Okay, well, I need to get proficient at something. Well, at that point in my life, you know, I was like, " I'm not that good at anything." I wasn't that good at anything. So, it would also make sense that you wouldn't be confident if you didn't have that many skills, right? And so, I learned to sell. That was the first thing I learned. I moved to the other side of the country. I didn't know anyone. I had $5,000 and I thought, "I'm going to learn how to do this. I'm also very opposed to the idea of selling, but I thought, "I have to figure this out.
I need to understand these core skills, otherwise I will never be able to build a business." And so I went to California. I found the closest gym, within walking distance. I applied to all of them, right? And then I chose the one that was the closest one ever I got the job, and I remember when I first started, they said, " Great. So, you know how to help people lose weight and get healthy, but you also need to know how to market yourself and sell yourself." "And so, that meant walking to Whole Foods and trying to attract interested people. That meant, for example, when someone was doing cardio,
walking up to them on the machine and saying, 'Do you need help? ""And I remember the first time I approached a woman on the treadmill. He was the first person I ever met. This time I'm telling my boss. I told him, 'Man, I don't know what I'm doing.' "And he said, 'Listen, it won't be that bad. What will he say? "" The first person I met, of course, looked at me and said, 'Go.' "And I: ' Ah.'" And I remember running to the bathroom and sitting on the toilet at Whole Foods. Yes. And I thought, "I literally think I'm going to have a panic attack." "I felt so bad.
I felt like my stomach was in my throat. I remember saying to myself, 'You can't let yourself down.' You have to make it worth it. Like, you came all this way. You dropped everything. You told everyone you were going to do this. You told everyone you were going to be an entrepreneur and start a business. So, I thought, "Okay, I'll focus on what I can do." " And so I focused on getting as many no's as possible. And by getting all the no's and being rejected, I realized that I could handle it, which I was terrified of, by the way. Like, I was getting bullied in school, I wasn't cool, I didn't have many friends, I wasn't pretty, it was all there. That's what built my confidence. And I think we often think
that the thing that makes us confident is the thing that makes us feel good. But what makes us feel good often makes us feel bad in the moment. And what makes us feel good in the moment often makes us feel bad in the long run. And that was really the biggest lesson I learned. And then I realized that every time I gained the most self-confidence, I didn't focus on being confident. I focused on becoming the best version of myself that I could be, which meant I was becoming more competent and, as a result, confident. I never thought I had to become more confident. After I realized that I was like, it happens naturally if you do these things.
This is a very powerful answer, and I'd like to explain it better to people. You said that to feel confident, we first need to develop competence, which provides us with evidence, which then builds confidence. And what I really appreciate about this answer is that many of us think that confidence comes first, and, as you said, when you were saying affirmations in the mirror, you were trying to believe it, no matter what. And the reality is that what you really needed was humility. Because what you just said is that you went to someone at Whole Foods and tried to sell something, no matter what it was, and they rejected you. And I think the interesting thing is that what we really need is to accept that we're bad at something.
Yes. Rather than wanting to feel like we're good at something before we've even done it. And this applies to everything. The first time you go to the gym, you'll have no idea what to do. The first time you date, you'll be confused. The first time you start a new job in sales, where you've never made a sales call or a cold call, you won't know what to do. And So, actually, the skill we should develop isn't confidence. It should be the desire to be bad at something and accept being humble and saying, "I don't know." Yes. And that's why you just said, which I love, that I still feel insecure about several things, because there are several things where you're still at the beginning of the journey.
A thousand percent. I like that you said that because, um, I often say this in psychology, and there's something I realized, I was like: where did so much of my insecurity come from? And so much of my insecurity came from the desire to be perfect, from the desire to create this illusion of being really good at something. And I had this motto that I shared with many people on my team, where instead of trying to be good, I say, "How can I be bad?" "And so like, 'I'm going to try to be a bad boss. I'll try. "I'll try to be a bad friend. And people are always so confused about that. They ask me, ' Why would you try to be bad?' And I say, 'Because in trying to be bad, it means I'm actually taking the risks necessary to be
good.' Hmm. And if I don't take the risks, then I'll never succeed.' It's like, you know, someone interviewed me not too long ago and said, 'Hey, I read some reviews of your first company on Glassdoor from 2016. They were pretty bad. So, do you think what you did actually worked? "And I said, 'Do you think I would have been as successful as I am at this young age if I had n't been willing to fail like that?' I have no problem making a bad impression. I have no problem making mistakes. I'm writing a book right now. This is all about lessons and failures because what was so painful for me was that I thought that when I was on my journey, I wanted to be better. I want to have great
performances. I want to start a business. I want to get in shape. I want to do all these things. Everything was so polished and fake. And everyone was talking about Lamborghini and this crazy house. They have this ship of perfection. And it was so hard for me to relate to people. And so even as I was going through this journey and starting to create content, I said to myself: the thing I never want people to think is that to be confident, you have to be perfect. It's like I'm saying: no. You have to have bad to have good. And I think it's just a matter of whether you're willing to do it. I think a lot of it depends on whether you're willing to feel the emotions you don't
want to get the ones you do want? And I think a lot of people say yes and they're willing, but they're not. Because when everything inside you feels like you're dying, many people run the other way. Because going on stage might make you feel like you're dying. Maybe run a board of directors, maybe pitch to someone for the first time, sell something. I know that feeling when you want to come out And I think people need to take a hard look in the mirror and ask themselves: Are they willing to feel this way to get what I want on the other side? Absolutely. So, the next question is: how do you build that mindset that says: I welcome this opportunity even though I might be laughed at, I might be rejected, I might feel like a failure. What is it all
about then? What should we work on instead of security? For me, a lot of it was acceptance more than anything else, because I think a lot of what I think hurt me in my childhood, before I had the success that I had, was that I felt like there was something wrong with feeling insecure, with feeling bad, with negative feelings. And I actually see this a lot these days, that we have.And I think labels are really useful in a lot of situations, but I think sometimes we tend to overuse them. I realized that I had these beliefs that made me feel immensely anxious, terrified of something, depressed when I didn't get what I wanted or wasn't feeling well- I thought these were all really bad feelings that needed to be avoided.
And it wasn't until I changed the narrative on this and said that I had this awareness. I was super anxious when I was trying to lose weight and I had just stopped drinking and doing drugs and I remember it was like a Thursday and everyone was drinking and stuff and I realized I felt so bad doing that, right? And I remember seeing him in my dorm and still feeling anxious. And then I realized and thought, "Wow, I've been doing all this stuff like buffering, repressing, and numbing to avoid these emotions I still feel. In fact, I think they might be stronger." Mhm. And it pushed me to go on a journey to figure out, like, "Well, what is this relationship that I have with myself?" And I just had these beliefs that were n't serving me, which were
essentially like all these emotions that I labeled as bad, maybe because of past experiences that were really scary and made me feel bad, and maybe because of things that I saw with other people. But until I was willing to say, "I accept this and it's okay and I'm totally okay with feeling these emotions in my life," I couldn't achieve anything when it came to discipline, confidence, etc., because often when you pursue something, it means you're growing. When you grow up, you are entering unknown territory. When you enter unfamiliar territory, your brain goes crazy and thinks, "I can't predict what's going to happen next, so I'll try to scare you into going back to your cave of comfort."
Right? And every time that happened, I'd say, "Well, I'm going back to the comfort cave." But when I finally said, "What if I made friends with these emotions? What if I said I'll take them with me?" I talk about it a lot, it's like I see it like anxiety, I was in the car with anxiety, right? Anxiety was in the driver's seat, steering me in a certain direction in my life and dictating where I was going Well, I still have anxiety in the car with me. The difference now is that I'm the one driving. She is sitting in the passenger seat or in the back seat. But I keep saying where I want to go. It's not that the feeling has gone away, but my relationship with it has changed. And making friends with those
very negative emotions has allowed me to do pretty much everything in life. And I think that's why I love growing a business, that's why I love, you know, trying to create content, all that stuff. Those were things that made me think , "Wow, if I do those things, I'm going to have to become the kind of person who can actually make more friends with those emotions," and that made me more confident than any affirmation, any applause, or any comment on Instagram. It was just doing that, being completely terrified, being okay with being completely terrified, and then doing it anyway. And then afterward, having that feeling of absolute relief, and then being proud of myself to say, "You did it Like, you were terrified and you did it
anyway. ' And that was the key to everything for me. It's always been like that, whenever I get stuck in life, it's like I look at where I am, I pull myself out and I think, 'You're not giving it your all. You're trying to avoid the emotion. "And I have to catch myself because our minds are deceptive. And say, 'No, you have to get inside it.'" It's like saying, " Come out of the cave of comfort and go out into the world." " I love the image of you driving and the anxiety that's with you in the back seat because I like the idea of how we let anxiety take the wheel and steer our lives in different directions. And you're so right when you say that I, myself included, still feel anxious today.
I still feel insecure today. I still feel like I have to prove myself today. I still have all those things. Yes. And they're those things that you've learned to use, to engage, to discuss, to debate, to find out what they 're really saying, what the signal is, but they don't go away. And I think the wish we all have is that the day they go away I'll find what my passion is and live my purpose and whatever else that might be. It's like, well, that doesn't happen to anyone. Because yeah, I don't know anyone, not even those who have been fortunate enough to meet so many amazing people and it's like there are even the best athletes in the world who have won everything who are
still afraid to step out on the field and you might say, well, Why? Because they've done it a million times and then they tell you, "No, this is a different day Their body is different, their energy is different, the meaning is different, the stakes are higher. Yes. Everything changes, and so this belief we all have is that one day there will come a day when from that day on everything will be easy. And I don't know anyone who feels that way because they're just playing in a different league. And so you're just moving up the ladder, and every league has different challenges. What do you feel and what do you see? You work with so many young people, business leaders, CEOs, you have people from different organizations
who come to you for advice What do you think is the main thing that prevents people from being successful in life? Very often, you know, people come to me and say, "I just want you to tell me the marketing trick or the sales trick," and I say, "Look, that's where I started." I started in sales and marketing. The reason I talk about everything else is because I realized that's not what kills companies. So I'll tell you a story to prove it. Please. You know, we had a company that we worked with and that company was growing like crazy. When we started with them, they were doing like $2 million a year.
Within three years that company was doing $90 million a year. Absolutely craziness. Absolutely absurd They got a threat from a competitor. That competitor started emphasizing things in their website marketing, all these things, like, all these things that they're going to try to take them down and copy and their competitors started copying other things and then threatening other things. Their competitor then, you know, sued them and said, hey , I'm going to sue you for this. And we were like, man, they're baseless. Don't even worry about it. And I know this because when I filed my first lawsuit, one night I thought, you know, oh my God, it goes like this. Fear. And
nothing happened. So they got into this situation. Lawsuit. Within six months of being served, the business was broke. The business wasn't broke because of the lawsuit. In fact, the lawsuit ended and they won. The business was broke because the founder was so unstable that she ended up closing the business because she couldn't manage it anymore. And I remember being on the phone with her and she literally said, "He's giving me all these reasons, right? It's marketing, it's sales, this is what they 're giving me, this is this part they're serving me." And it all boiled down to me being like, "You could do this, you could do that, but we can do this." Like, please trust me. That's why I'm your partner because
I can help you get through this. Like, I've been involved in a lot of lawsuits. And she was like, "I just can't do this." And in that moment I remember thinking, the main reason people fail to grow a business and succeed is because they can't manage their own. mind. They can't manage their mind and their emotions. And I 've seen it so many times. Like, it's not the market that's making you fail, it's you that's making you fail. And the same thing happened during COVID. I mean, at that time we had thousands of clients who were business owners that we worked with. And I saw how many people for whom COVID didn't end their business. Their inability to manage their emotions during COVID is what ended their business Because eventually they would just
throw in the towel and make up an excuse outside of themselves. It was the market, it was the lawsuit, it was the fact that they were telling us we had to stay 6 feet apart, whatever it was. And it always came down to the fact that they didn't want to tolerate those feelings anymore. They had a low frustration tolerance. They couldn't tolerate feelings of uncertainty, they couldn't tolerate feelings of frustration, they couldn't tolerate feelings of unpredictability. And I just watched every big business I saw fail, which I've seen. I'd say five other companies besides the one I just told you about, it was always because the founder didn't have enough emotional management. He couldn't manage himself emotionally during those turmoils, like
those situations that felt like turmoil. And I'll tell you, you know, there was a time when I was in so much pain that I could, you know, work from the couch every day. I had four lawsuits to deal with. I was having problems with some personal things with my family and in my business. I also had 12 direct reports. I had just hired four new people and was working three days a week. And the only reason I was able to do it was because I thought I would redouble my efforts to make sure I could manage all of this. It was the hardest time of my life, but I got through it and I came out better. That's what breaks most people. It's when everything collides
at once and then how do I manage the uncertainty? How do I manage the frustration, the anger, the anxiety and then they say they just find something they think outside themselves and They point to it and say that's why it didn't work. Every time. I didn't expect that answer. Really? Yeah, that's a great answer. I really like it I can agree with you more, and now I'm starting to think about so many people I know who have made it and won, and you're absolutely right when you say it has a lot to do with mindset and the choice of whether or not to continue in business. Tell me about that first uncertainty you faced, that first lawsuit, that first thing you decided to choose to answer that question.
What was the first moment when you didn't have. Now you have all this evidence and expertise in dealing with changing markets, managing large teams, acquiring companies and taking them over. Before all of that, the first time you encountered uncertainty, how did you manage your mind to find evidence that was the answer? When I started my first business, I was 23, and by 24, I had 120 employees and the business had gone from zero to $50 million in less than two years. And so my whole journey, from when I was very young-I'd never managed anyone before, I was just someone who'd been arrested and drugged and all this stuff-was the most uncertainty I 've ever felt in my life. I mean, as much as it was
the hardest time of my life because of the amount of uncertainty, it was also the time I grew the most because I didn't let it go. I think of it like the frog boiling. It's like the water kept heating up and I kept wondering how I was growing with the water. And so when I look back on what I've accomplished, I've had to put in place practices to take care of myself. And it seems, you know, trivial. You know, people are like, "Oh, taking care of yourself, it's such a small thing ." Well, there's nothing easy about winning. Here's what I say in return. I learned very early on what things I need to do to maintain my sanity during all of this. And so, you know, I remember having meetings that started at 8:00 in the
morning and went on until 6:00 or 7:00 p.m., and I'd say, "Well, then I'll get up at 4:30. I'll journal. I'll walk. I'll have breakfast. I'll have coffee. I'll listen or meditate, whatever." And then during the day, I'd think, "Okay, I need a break where I can take 10 minutes to go outside and take a walk." And I've been ruthless about doing that throughout my career. I know what I need to do to keep myself in the right state of mind. I must have.I look around and think about this, I've been pouring my cup all day. And I'm also that person who's there for everyone when something is certain and I know it's uncertain because I feel insecure about it
. I have to refill my cup and it sounds so cheesy, but it's been the key to why I've been able to continue doing this and I'm obsessed with studying how people who are great performers maintain their. I don't care if you can win for 5 years. I really don't care. I don't even care if you can win for 10. I wonder, who can win for 30 or 40 years? And I realized that there are many similarities between these people. And so, I studied this ruthlessly in my spare time, which was when I got up at 4:30 in the morning. in the morning and after everyone has gone to sleep at night. And so, the biggest thing I've noticed is that they will absolutely do the things that they know they need to do to take care of themselves. So, I think about it this way: If
you saw an athlete performing, you know, you 've interviewed a lot of them, right? Let's say it's Michael Jordan, right? And you'd expect him to work hard all day? Like he wouldn't take a nap, he wouldn't get a massage, he wouldn't do physical therapy, he wouldn't. It's like I'm saying, no, it's like it's part of the plan that there has to be a recovery because you're pushing so hard. Your body needs it. I think the same way about business. It's like asking yourself: what do you do to recover from all that you're producing? And I realized very early on that, in order to manage the amount of uncertainty I was dealing with, I had to create
these anchors for myself where I felt a sense of stability in my life, like I had a sense of control, because there are so many things we can't control in life. But I had to have these areas where I had these little nuggets where I could control things and bring myself back into a mental state where I remembered, like, why am I doing this? Right? And the reason is that it's always been the same for me, which is that I want to be the best version of myself possible. And then people say, well, why would you want to do that? What? Well, I guess that's my belief about life, which is, what else am I going to do before I die? I would like to know what this body and soul are capable of. And so I think the only thing that's going to
stop me is if I burn out. I don't mean it 's a marathon, I train like it's a sprint. And this is the most important thing I've realized over time: I've seen so many people start something and then the amount of uncertainty they have is that they don't have enough skills to take care of themselves. who end up giving up. So I think so. Many high-performing people have these skills. We can work very hard. We can be disciplined. We can step on the gas. But you also need to have these skills if you're focusing here, that is, do you know when to rest? Do you know when to take care of yourself? Do you know how to take care of
your mindset? Or do you just persevere through everything? Which runs out because it is not discipline It's just willpower, which we have a certain amount of, but I'd like to save it for the things that matter, not the things that don't matter. This is what has helped me get through many periods of uncertainty: whenever I have more uncertainty in my life, I say, " Great. Now that I have more uncertainty, what more do I need to do for myself to overcome it?" "And I treat myself like I would a friend. It's like, 'Great. I have a psychologist, I have coaches, I have mentors, people I can consult with, people I can call, friends I can talk to. "I try to gather as much support as I can for myself, so I can handle the amount of uncertainty I
have in my life. And if I don't have people to support me, I can't bear the weight of the uncertainty I have in my hands. You know, it's like when you walk into a building, no one ever says, 'Ah, this place has wonderful foundations.'" Yes. Right? You never said that. If you walk into a beautiful building, whether it's in New York, Singapore, or anywhere in the world , you walk in and think, 'Wow, this place.' And look up. "And you say, 'Oh, this place is amazing.' It's so tall and it's so beautiful." And then you don't realize that there are these really, really deep foundations. In reality, the taller
the building, the deeper and stronger the foundation, but you don't see it. It's the same thing you're talking about: whether it's waking up at 4:30, journaling, listening, finding space, meditating, whatever your version of that is, those are your foundations. And that's exactly what you just said. The higher I wanted to go, the deeper the foundations had to be. I needed more people to help me keep that anxiety and uncertainty at bay, which is so powerful because I think a lot of entrepreneurs believe they have to do everything alone. That a truly good entrepreneur is someone who makes it on his own. And yes, those people weren't helping you build the company, but they were helping you manage your emotions.
Yes. And it's such an interesting connection because I think we think of business success as something completely separate from emotional human connection. And that's what you think, and I see you shaking your head, right? Now. It 's crazy to me that people think this. Like, it's absolutely crazy to me. And I mean, I have to say this, I think there are people who are anomalies. For the amount of anomalies that there are, there are a hundred more people for every person who do it because they have that kind of support. Yes. And I also think about what kind of life I want to live? And I want to be awesome.
I want to be the best version of myself that I can be, but I also don't think I have to do it alone. And I don't think anyone wants that. I don't think it's funny. Yeah. You know, it's like people are like, "I'm exhausted." "And I say, 'Okay, what are you doing?' Do you have any friends? Do you do things yourself? Do you have people who support you? ""It's funny, there's such a correlation there. It's like they're saying, "No, I like someone." " Yes. And people always say it's lonely when you're at the top, but it does n't have to be that way because it's a choice in how you build it. Actually, I'm thinking about something really wonderful, just because of what you
just said. I've noticed that as my career has grown, I talk more to my older friends. Yes. And today I have less time. So, it doesn't make sense. So, I moved to the States 10 years ago when I started my online job and I talked to my best friend who was my best man. I talk to him like three times a week right now. And I don't know where I find the time. Yes. But somehow I manage and I think that's why I do it. I hadn't even thought about it that way until you said it. I just thought, oh , our relationship has just gotten better and even though he lives in a completely different time zone, we find a way to connect with each other, but that's exactly what you're saying because my anxiety has increased. Yes.
And because the amount of time I have to The amount of holding back increases, the amount I have to give increases, I lean more on the people in my life who have been there longer, who know me more deeply, who know me better. And even if I do it subconsciously, that's why it happens. Oh, 1,000%. It's interesting you say that because, like, you know, we hired a third partner, her name is Sharon, and we work together all day, every day. And we had a conversation like two weeks ago, and he came to me and said, I had a revelation last night. And I said, what? He said, we both work better the more we talk. He said, so let's schedule it, because we'll talk in the
morning, in the evening, whatever works best for us. And we said, okay. So, we scheduled three calls a week. We said, let's just take them, so they'll be okay. And we were talking about it. We were like, there are so many hard things to do. And it weighs on us, but if you can share it with someone who can support you, it feels a lot lighter. Yes. This The idea of keeping a journal and even taking a company from $2 million to $90 million-there's this gap that discipline bridges. Yes. Because getting up and, as you said, never compromising those habits in your career, and then being able to grow multiple companies to $ 50 million the first time, or $90 million with the example you just gave, requires
discipline and consistency. But one of the things we see in the world today, I think, is that people have started to recognize the importance of discipline. Yes. But it's the thing we all struggle to build. People will kind of do it. They'll post a video every day for a week and then give up. Or people will wake up and go to the gym for a month and then give up. And we know that's the commonality that happens. What's the difference between people who develop discipline and those who always abandon it? What's the difference between these two types of people?
There's no difference in the person. I think that's the biggest fallacy I see in people, like, "You're disciplined." ". It's as if they were saying, 'No, you know how to build discipline.'" Discipline is a system. And so the simplest way to explain it is that if you want to be disciplined, you make it easier to do the things you want to do to achieve your goals and harder to do the things that go against your goals. So a great example is this. People say, "I'm just not disciplined. You know, I eat ice cream every night. I just can't seem to lose weight." " Well, discipline, if we look at it as a system, you have a cue in the house. You have ice cream in the refrigerator.
That's literally a trigger to make you eat ice cream. So let's take that out. And then let's put in, I don't know, some vegetable sticks, or I wouldn't do it. But I would do a hot chocolate diet, hot chocolate. To me, that's a good idea. And I would put it in the same place. And it's interesting because when I started losing weight, I didn't say to myself, 'Oh, you're [__] because you can't lose weight.' I said to myself, 'Oh, I don't have any good systems in place.'" How can I make it as easy as possible for me to follow the steps needed to lose weight? How can I make it as easy as possible for me to stop drinking? How do I do it? Well, let's take a look at each of these things.
The simplest thing possible is not to drink. The easiest thing I did was live with six people who all drank. What did I do? I left home. It's that simple. But it's as if half the stimulus, I would say 50% of my desire to drink, disappeared immediately. Because I was surrounded by people who did it all the time. And it was a constant invitation, "Hey, remember you like to drink? Drink, drink, drink." "It pushed me all day. On the other hand, when I thought, 'Okay, I'm trying to lose weight,' the first thing I did was two things. I said to myself, 'I'm getting rid of all the junk food I have in the house.'" Secondly, I
deleted and removed from my phone everything that I could use to order food. Because what are two ways I can get junk food? Either I eat it at home or I order it myself. Now, if I want junk food, I go driving. Oh God, there are so many reasons why I won't do this. This doesn't mean that, I think many people think that to be disciplined you need to have more desire. No, my desire for that ice cream was exciting. Why? There was so much friction to get it. Yeah. It's like, oh, [__], I guess I'll just have to deal with the desire. Yes. And most people do it in the opposite direction. Because a lot of people say, you know, they look at
discipline, and I think discipline is just doing things consistently to get what you want. Many people consistently do things to avoid getting what they want. You constantly eat ice cream. You don't go to the gym systematically. So you have systems set up to make it easier for you to miss your goals. Mhm. And so we have to change those systems. Here you are. Well. It's a terrible thing that so many people think, "You're not disciplined." "No, you don't have the ability to build disciplined systems around yourself. It's such a different way of looking at things. And some of these things are really easy. Like if I look at my phone, you know, when I open my phone in the morning, the first thing I see is a notification for Insight Timer, which I
use. And then it says, like, 'Time to meditate.'" I meditated for 179 days straight. It's been since I started. I will meditate every day from this point in my life. You know, the second thing I have is my MyFitnessPal, which opens up and gives me a reminder where I put a little reminder every time I eat. It appears on my phone as a reminder from my iPhone and says, " Log your food." Isn't it a matter of discipline or is it the environment reminding me to do something? Yes. Memory is a responsibility. Many people think, "I have to remember." I have to remember that I want to lose weight, that I want to be a great girl, and
that I want to start a business, and my memory and desire should create the result. "This is a logical fallacy. There are going to be so many things that are going to capture your attention all day. So how are you going to create systems that capture your attention? Just cues. It could be a piece of paper. It could be a note you write to yourself. It could be the lack of food in the house. It could be a friend calling you, a text you received. We need to make it easier to achieve our goals, not harder. This is the best systems analysis I 've ever heard, honestly, because I've heard this idea of systems before, but the way you just phrased it is as if we already have
systems in place that are actually failing us. And I always joke that some people like to have the world's crappiest snack drawer. And what I mean is, it's full of great snacks, but they're all healthy because my wife doesn't allow anything in the house that has a certain level of sugar, a certain level of this, artificial products, anything. And it's almost like when I was a kid, I thought, 'God, if I ever had a house and a snack drawer, it would be full of Sour Patch Kids candies, M&Ms and this and that. And my wife said, "No." Like, because, and you're so right, out of sight, out of mind. It's the simplest rule in the world; and yet, we make it difficult for ourselves And then, we think we're not disciplined people, and we think we're not
good people, and we think we don't care enough, and we think we do n't want it enough, and we think people like us don't get it, and we internalize all these crappy systems. And then you feel worse about yourself when it wasn't about you at all because, as you just said, if I had a dark chocolate cake in my refrigerator right now, that's exactly what I'd eat tonight. There, there, that's what I crave. If you ask me what I crave right now, that's what I want. I'm addicted to chocolate. I used to be addicted to chocolate. But it's like if it's not available, and you're right about the apps, then I have to deal with all this friction. And so I like the idea of creating friction because we think there's friction in achieving our
goals, but the friction is simply what you already have around you. A thousand times. percent. You know, it's funny because I consider it in every aspect of life. Like, "Okay, you want to get married." And people say, "Well, this guy cheated on you, this man." And I say, " Well, it probably made it really easy to cheat." And then they say, "What do you mean by that?" "Something Alex and I always got as the first piece of advice from, like, a mentor when we got married. He said, 'If you don't want to cheat, don't hang out with your single friends.' And at the time I just thought, 'Okay.'" But then I really thought about it with this new perspective later. I said to myself, 'Oh, don't put yourself in
situations where you're pushed to cheat Hmm. What's the easiest way to not cheat? Putting yourself in situations where you're reminded of your wonderful marriage, not in situations where you're constantly tempted to cheat. Yes. And I think there have been a lot of studies on this topic that I've seen come out, which say the more single friends you have, the more likely you are to cheat. Impossible. Yes. On the contrary, the more married and happy friends you have, the more likely you are to stay happy and married. It's like your environment, the people around you, the things around you, all of that pushes you.
Yes. And it's actually something Alex and I talk about a lot because, you know, both of us, for example, if we're invited to a bachelor or bachelorette party, we say no. And we think, 'Well, why?' "We think, ' Well, they'll go out and be on their own and try to date people.'" We're like, "I don't want to put myself in that situation." We're not like, "Oh, you don't have enough willpower not to cheat on me." I 'm like, "No, don't do that." I won't do it either, okay? Like: We're not going to put ourselves in this situation. It's kind of like, "Okay, if I don't want to drink and do drugs, maybe I shouldn't go out after 11:00 because what happens after 11:00 to anyone who's sober? Not much.
Yeah. And it's also like, why put yourself in a position where you're always testing yourself? Right? It's like your life is hard enough already. Why are you making it harder to do the things you really want to commit to and push yourself to do because you're just testing yourself? Now, every night is a test, and every weekend is a test, and you wonder why you're trying to pass the test and fail it? Because you're likely to be exhausted by the end of the week, you'll fail the exam, whatever it may be, whether it's waking up early or starting a business. If you party all weekend and are surrounded by people who aren't starting a business, you obviously won't wake up early on Monday morning and go to work.
No. Because you failed the exam because you're obviously exhausted and obviously you were just trying to live life. Tell me about this idea of work-life balance because it seems like it's still a big conversation, and it seems like in today's generation it's almost seen as the biggest priority, where we want to have the biggest win, but we also want to have the biggest breakthrough. Tell me how you've seen this in your life and in the people you mentor. I do n't know if my opinion is popular, but I think many people talk about work-life balance because they associate work with pain and suffering. And so I see a lot of people say that
they need work- life balance because they actually don't love their jobs. And I think that's a skill. Know what kind of work you will enjoy. When I tell people I think, oh, you know, yesterday was an easy day, I worked 12 hours. You know, and I say what ? But I work with my husband. I'm friends with everyone I work with. I really want to talk to all of them. I work with my father. I work with my family, why wouldn't I want to? I like. I really like it. and I find a lot of meaning in what I do. And so I think one, I think unfortunately a lot of work, for people who have jobs, have had such terrible jobs and have let that taint their vision, their version of what work means to you? And I understand that because I once had a
terrible boss. Well, I actually had a fantastic boss. And then a year later he was the one who introduced me to the world of sales and helped me get through that season. They replaced him with another boss. He was a terrible boss. And I went from loving my life to thinking, I don't want to. I'll cry in the parking lot. I don't even want to go to work every day. I feel unhappy. And I remember realizing looking back, this is why people don't like work and work has a bad reputation because there are so many people making the work much harder than it needs to be. Because it wasn't a job I did n't like. It was him.
Mhm. And I think a lot of people have negative associations with work, and that makes sense because you spend most of your time at work. [__] is going to happen Things will happen that could really shock you. But if you allow that narrative to take hold, then I don't think you can get to this other side where work can actually be something you enjoy. So, I think that's one part; it's like I really feel like it's a difficult part. And I also think it goes hand in hand with, like, I see a lot of people who want to be entrepreneurs: they want to have status, they want to have fame, but they don't want to be good leaders. And it's hard because I think this also affects people's view of work. People who aren't entrepreneurs, right? It's like
you have bad leaders now, you have negative associations with the job. So yeah, people like, I have to finish at 5:00 because it's painful for me to do this all day. I'm exhausted and.I don't like it. But if you like it, if you like something, you want to do more of it. And so, when I thought, what do I want from life? I want a job that doesn't make me want to quit working. Like, if I feel like I have to finish at 5:00, which, by the way, you probably want to stop doing anything at some point in the day because you're just so [__] tired. I don't know what else to say. Like, I could be with my husband and say, I'm done with you
. Like, we've been together quite a bit today. I could work out and say, I'm exhausted. I worked for 3 hours. I could talk to my friends and say, I'm done. Like, we have nothing to talk about for hours. So, at any given time of the day, you only have a certain amount of energy. But when you create this association thinking that this thing called work has to be.It's as if this association we've built is something you don't like and it's hard. and bad. We live in this world that is so incredibly cool right now. So many people have choices about what they can do, and there are so many options. It's not just: do I get this job or that job? It's: I can build this thing. I can do it online. I can become an influencer here. I can
sell here. I can be.There are so many options. And I think most people optimize for the wrong outcome, which is, I'll tell you this, this is it. Many people sit and think: what do I want? What do they really think when they think: What kind of job do I want? What activity do I want? What will people applaud me for And then, because of that, they sign up for something they don't actually like. They are not good at this and they are not cut out for it. And then they don't like it and then they need balance. When I started acquisition.com, it took me weeks to think to myself: What do I enjoy doing every day? Who are the people I want to be
surrounded by: what are the things I like to do? What could I do in the next 30 years? And then build a business on that. Knowing that I can continue to do those things all the time. That's why I love what I do now, even more than my first job. My first business wasn't like that. It was like, "Okay, well, it worked, it made me money. Let's build it." And then I said to myself, " Why don't I do it?" I was exhausted.
I felt like I needed balance. I needed to not look at Slack after a certain period of time. I felt punished. And with this, it's so different and that's because I designed it so that the work was something I enjoyed doing. And so I think rather than thinking about how to bring more balance to my life, I'm thinking about how to make work something that I enjoy doing. And I don't think people think about it much. Some people might listen to this and maybe think, "Well, Leila, I can't do that." As if I could only do this job. I only have these resources. I have this money. "I mean, I can also tell you that when I was a cashier at a smoothie stand, I remember talking to my boss, and he inspired me so much because he
said, 'How can you make every person's day better by working here? "" Because I said the job was a bit boring. I just want to go home. And so I almost turned it into a video game. I said to myself, "How is it that every person who walks up to me can make them smile when they walk away?" "It sounds so cheesy. But then I started to appreciate my job because I saw that I was making all these people smile just by being a cashier. And then eventually I didn't want to stop working. And it's funny because I look back on it now and I think it was one of the best jobs I've ever had. And it had nothing to do with the work, but everything to do with the way I saw it. And so I think that either. I mean, there
are two ways to do it, which is: how do you make sure that the thing you do for work is something that you enjoy to the best of your ability, and then how do you make sure that you don't have a shitty mindset about everything you do ? And a lot of people have such a negative filter that they see everything in the world. They don't see the opportunity to become a better version of themselves in anything they do, that it just seems like this boring, tedious thing that you do every day. It's like they're saying, 'Yeah, but this Here, the boring thing you're doing is exactly what people who lose don't do and don't become the person they want to be. "So those are the two ways I think about it.
Again, it's probably not popular, but there's a great study I read that supports this point of view. It was conducted a few years ago by Amy Wrzesniewski and a team from Yale. In 2019, they traveled around America to find out what they thought was the hardest job in the United States. Yes. And so they talked about a lot of jobs, did a lot of interviews, and decided it was hospital cleaning. Now, this was before the pandemic. You can only imagine how much harder it's become, but I think we can all agree that being a hospital cleaner seems like a pretty tough job. Washing dishes, toilets, sheets, floors, cleaning up after
people have used those things, cleaning up after people have died. So, really tough work. So, they went to hospitals and interviewed cleaners. And these cleaners they interviewed described themselves in their own words as low- skilled labor. They clean toilets, sheets, floors, etc. Then they interviewed them, and found another group of cleaners who called themselves healers and assistants. And they said, "Wait, what do you mean? You work the same hours, you get paid the same amount, you work in the same hospitals, you do exactly the same work, but these cleaners call themselves cleaners and these cleaners call themselves healers." So they asked the healers, "Why do you call yourselves that? ". They replied: "
Because we believe that a clean hospital is essential to a patient's recovery. We believe that if the hospital is clean, people's families will spend more time with them in times of need. They won't want to escape from a dirty place . And indeed, if the hospital is clean, people feel a sense of dignity in a really difficult moment of their lives when they go to the bathroom or when they eat from a plate. And so, how could we not see ourselves as part of the healing and the cure? Now, these people had more purpose, they felt happier, they had more meaning. They were simply more positive about the work they were doing. Going back to your point, it wasn't the work. So, Amy and her team coined the term "job crafting"
Which is the idea that it's not what you do for work that makes you happy, but how you feel about what you do for work that makes you happy. And for them, they felt like they were caring for people. And I thought, "Wow, if you can do that as a hospital cleaner, doing one of the toughest jobs in America, then we can all adopt that mindset. We can all be job creators." And I like that you've done that in your work, as you just said. And I know I did this in previous jobs when I was employed. And I think that mindset is what gave me the confidence, competence, and ability that has now led me to do what I do full time.
Fantastic. Yes, it's a fantastic study. I like. Yes. I was so happy when I discovered it because I thought, "Wow, I've always wanted to find a way to show how powerful meaning is and how creating meaning is up to you." And that study really put everything into perspective. So, my second question on this is: if someone is in their twenties, what are the three main skills they should be developing right now? Regardless of the job they do, regardless of the industry, what are the three key skills you would say they should invest in? Patience, patience, patience. Interesting. It's the rarest thing I see nowadays in people in their twenties. And I'll tell you this, I have 30, 50 people in their 20s, man.
Maybe 75 people on my team in their 20s. And the number one characteristic of all of them that makes them successful is patience. Wow. They are able to do boring work, to focus on something, not to be distracted by shiny object syndrome, not to be distracted by what their friend is doing to make easy money online. And that pays off big time. I mean, we have a sales director. His name is Jacob. Greetings to Jacob. Um, we've known him since he was 16 Hm. And you know, he's about to turn 23. Wow. He is our director of sales for acquisition.com.
He leads one of the largest teams we have. He is 23 years old. What does he have that others don't? And I always tell him that. Let me give you this example. He has patience. When he came to us and we said, "We need you to be just an SDR." This is not our first company. He was. He came to acquisition.com. We told him, " Call the phones." He never said, "When do I make a career?" He never said, "When do I do this next?" Nothing. He became ruthlessly good at the skill he was faced with. And he did it so much, he focused so much and he was so patient, without trying to get to the next level, that he improved a lot and a lot faster.
The irony is that when you're distracted by trying to progress so quickly or acquire the next skill so quickly, you don't actually gain the level of proficiency in the skill you're focusing on to get to the next level. Hm. And I see it with all of them. Yes. The main reason they fail is that they lack patience. And I say that, as someone who advocates patience, I have a lot of it. It's the reason I split my 20s. I mean, I hate it when people say to me, "What would you say if you were 20, would you do things differently?" And I replied, "I'm in my 20s." I'm really proud of what I 've done and I've been very patient. I
never tried to reach the next level. I was just trying to get really good at what I was. I mean, I read 12 great books on how to run a meeting because I thought, "I just have to get this right." Mhm. And I think patience encompasses many different skills. I think about the ability to tolerate boredom, I think about the ability to tolerate distractions. And if you can acquire these skills by the time you're 20, yes. Dude, I told him, "I'll work for you when I'm 45, okay?" I like. Fifth and final question we ask all the guests who have ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
Leave everyone and everything better than you found them. Mhm. Yes, that's a good rule. Yes, well said. Leila Hormozi, thank you very much. I have learned so much, gained so much. I know my audience will get a lot of value from this conversation. I hope you will continue to come back. I feel like there's so much more we could explore together, and I'm so grateful to have you here today. Thank you so much for making the effort to travel all the way here and be here with me. Oh yeah, that was awesome. Thanks, Jay.
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