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- Women's sports, we don't necessarily have the capital. And so for me, a lot of the deals that I've had to make, I have to get creative and I have to do those cold reach outs and I have to figure it out because I don't necessarily have the funds to build the empire that I want to build, but I'm just trying not to let that stop me. - Welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly. - And I'm Alex Rodriguez. - All right, Alex. Coming up on the show, Renee Montgomery, the co-owner and vice president of the Atlanta Dream.
A player turned owner. That sounds familiar. - Yes. And we also have the Minnesota Lynx in common where she won two championships for us. And I'm really interested to ask her a little bit about how she got into the Dream. - All right. The deal on the deal. Coming up, Renee Montgomery. Renee Montgomery, really good to have you here. I got to start with the elephant in the room because I've got the Lynx. Yep. And I got the former Lynx, now the Dream. We good? Everything okay between you guys? - Oh, I fell in love with Minnesota. They know that. So I mean, Minnesota gave me two championships.
I could never be mad at that. - Yeah. Well, Minnesota's not mad at you either. - Gave us two championships we love. And we haven't won since, so we have a lot of work to do. - I mean, that was your start. I mean, there must be a lot that you think back to a very different WNBA then. - Yeah. I mean, it's a very different WNBA now, but I will say Minnesota was a little bit ahead of the curve. I remember Mayo Clinic, which now you see a lot of teams are building facilities and it's state of the art, it's high-tech. So yeah, I was living good.
We were living good in Minnesota. - Well, and you delivered. - Well, my question is, I mean, this goes back '16 and '17, right? Did you think at that point with the size of the WNBA and some of the challenges, did you ever think it would get to this point where it's just like an enormous league that's watched all over the world? - It's so crazy because I obviously was a young hooper and the WNBA started when I was 10 years old. And so I literally became obsessed.
It was like my whole world changed because I knew I could have a profession. And I know it's different for men's sports because there was already leagues when you were born. But I remember coming off of the '96 Olympics in Atlanta and then going into '97 for the WNBA. The WNBA was massive. They were on my favorite sitcoms like Martin. I felt like these WNBA players were celebrities on top of the world. And then it's kind of like anything where if a new restaurant hits town, everybody trying to get into the new restaurant and then it hits this stagnant point. And I think that's kind of what happened. But now though, the viewership and the attendance, it's like this is things
that when you're three, two, one, it's like the crowd goes wild. We have those crowds now. - Yeah, it's wild. So I want to get into a little bit, we have so much in common. Obviously you were a player, you won multiple championships, I won one. But you transitioned beautifully from the world of being in a basketball uniform, me in a baseball uniform to the boardroom. Now, when I tried to get into team ownership, my path was completely different than yours. It took four or five years. I tried to buy the Mets with my partners.
I failed miserably. But with the Lynx and the Timberwolves, it was a process of four or five years. When it comes to you, I mean, yours came immediately. How did that deal come together? And when did you talk to your wife and your family and the big check, how'd you think about that? - I think for me, it was fast because here in four or five years, then my one year does sound pretty quick, but it felt slow because it was a process. First, I didn't know I had to retire to even be eligible. So then that was the first hammer for me. It's like, I'm not for sure going to be, but I have to retire to even have the chance.
Everybody in my family was like, "If you feel strongly about this, then yeah, you should retire," because my whole life was about trying to make it pro. Do I stop now for a chance? Can I get back in? It's not that simple. So that was the first step. And then the second step for me personally was people taking me serious. I had reached out to our GM, didn't really get much traction there. And it's very fortunate that at that time I was working with More Than a Vote and somebody named LeBron James was a part of that. And he had sent out that Tweet that basically said,
"Somebody needs to be a new team owner for the Dream and who's down?" So for me, I saw that as my opportunity to shoot my shot. And so I saw him and I was like, "We need some help." And LeBron really was the way that got me connected to now taking it serious and getting connected to Larry, Suzanne, who are the other co-owners of the Atlanta Dream. - Larry Gottensteiner and Suzanne Adair. - Yeah. They won the bid. And I meet with them and I'm like, "Hey, I think that you guys are going to be great. You do business at the highest level, have a billion dollar company, but I'm sports.
I've lived this, I breathed this." And I essentially had to pitch to them why I would be a good partner for them in this ownership group. And it was like we instantly clicked. But yeah, it was a long year because I was retired, jobless and didn't really know because I had sat out the previous year. - So let's go back. So this is summer of 2020. We're in COVID lockdown. George Floyd gets murdered. - Yeah. - And you make one of the most dramatic decisions of your life to not play basketball to take us back there if you can.
- It was a crazy time and I was in Atlanta. So if anybody understands, Atlanta was at the forefront of everything that was going on. Even when we talk about More Than a Vote, State Farm Arena was where the voting was happening. 40,000 people were voting in Atlanta. There was protests in Atlanta every day. I felt very connected to the community, but then there was also that, well, I guess it's time to go back to work. And it's like, how do you just stop when everything is still going on and decide to just go to work?
And I struggle with that because I'm like one of those players, they call it the Mamba mentality, but you could set your clock by me. You know what time I'm going to be in the gym. You know what I'm going to cold tub afterwards. I'm very by the book. So how can I be that athlete that I know I am, but also half of me is worried about what's going on, not comfortable with what's going on. And so that's kind of how I came to the decision of opting out of the WNBA because it was like I wanted to be in Atlanta and the athlete in me can't be half in, half out.
- Right. And then just as a reminder, Atlanta becomes that much more important for our story here because of what's happening at the Atlanta Dream where Kelly Loeffler, the now former owner, then current owner, starts to denigrate publicly and privately the Black Lives Matter movement and really seeks to tamp down what's going on in the WNBA with protests. Is that a fair assessment? - Yeah, that's fair. - And so ultimately, as you mentioned, LeBron James, the king, says new ownership needed. And so what does that moment feel like to watch as social justice starts to have a real economic impact on a team getting bought or sold?
- It's wild, right? To even think about how all of those things happened in a certain order, in a certain way that when you look back, it's like if you did this simulation 10 times, these things could not happen. Just that one time the perfect storm happened. And then to me, being right there with Senator Warnock, and that was something that people don't know that I knew Senator Warnock before he started to run for senator. And it just so happened that he was running against our former ownership. So it's just like all of those things for it to be a year where there was an election, that doesn't happen every year.
- So I mean, now you get into the deal. For you, what was the most nervous part of it? Because I always think about when you make an investment, but you're walking into where you're an absolute kind of master. We've been playing sports our whole lives. And then we come to this building and it's the business building ownership. But what was the biggest obstacle? When you look at your wife when it's one-on-one, you're going, "All right, this is a big step." What was that moment for you? - I mean, a lot of people talk about me becoming a co-owner, which is the big shebang, but I also became vice president of the team. And for me, that's a day-to-day thing.
As you become a co-owner, you can be as involved or as little involved as you would like to be. But when you become the vice president, you're kind of in on the workings of it. And as you know, I played sports my whole life, so when they're starting to talk and say things, it's like, "Well, I know what's going on." You go from being a master at your game and the highest expert when it comes to basketball and basketball IQ. And then we enter, like you said, the business building. So then we enter the business building and it's like we're at the ground floor. I didn't know a lot. So first thing that was tough was the contract.
It's like, what is this saying in the contract? And that's the thing in sports where. You read your contracts, right or did you actually - Yeah. - Okay. Not all athletes read their contracts. - Every word. So I read all of my contracts when I was an athlete, so I wanted to read this contract and that was overwhelming because it's thick. It's a book. And so that was, I think, was the first whoa when they're like, okay, this is what you have to sign. And then the second one was like, I'm an athlete and if I'm representing this team, we need to be ran a certain way so that athletes know
that we respect them. And I don't know if the Atlanta Dream was run that way when I was a player. So changing that narrative around the league was one of the things that was at forefront of my mind. - And so let's go back to the contract because how do you figure out the monetary aspects of it? How do you figure out the roles and responsibilities? You pitched yourself, as you mentioned earlier, but how do you negotiate that with people who, by the way, are new, they're new to sports at that point, professional sports. So how were you finding a way around that? And what were the things that were most
important to you negotiating? - I mean, honestly, I was trying to just get a seat at the table. So it wasn't like I was trying to do a heavy negotiation. One of the things that was part of the negotiation was me being a C-suite, like an executive there. So the beginning of it was like we were all going to be co-owners together, but the thing that I did negotiate in was like I want to have my hand. If my name is going to be attached to it, I want to make sure that I can have a hand in how it is. - You want an executive role.
- Yeah. So that was the biggest part of the negotiation for me, being an executive that can control and help and give my input. And honestly, Larry and Suzanne, they were amazing. They value my advice. They will ask me advice. And so that felt really good. But for me, the biggest thing on the table was I don't want to have to be sitting back and seeing what happens with the team and I wanted to be an executive with the team. - So what do you know now that you didn't know then? What has been the most exciting for you to learn and what's completely different than what you thought as a player?
- Okay. I'm going to start with the completely different as a player. There's so many things that we thought we were just going to change overnight and you start to see why it just takes time. We had to go through the thought process of like, all right, we're going to pick a couple things every year that we elevate and we knock out the park instead of trying to fix everything all at once and doing everything mediocre. So that was the hardest thing because coming in as a player, first of all, in players, we have so many things that we think are the team, but it's really the league. So it's like if the players, for instance, in the WNBA, we weren't flying private when I was a player,
but it's like you can't fly private. Even if we wanted to fly the players private, you can't. And so that's something that as a players, you kind of know, but you're like, "But why not though? Why don't you just put the money up and do it?" And so it's just little things like that. But the thing that I think is the best is just seeing something grow. When you see something from, we call it our year zero, where we first got the team 40 days before the season, by the way, a nightmare, that's tough. It was tough. - Don't recommend it. - Don't recommend. But to see like, wow, I remember when we had 20 employees and now we have quadrupled that. And so I just think the most rewarding thing
for me is looking around the arena and it's like, oh my gosh. Because when I was a player, we played at State Farm as well and it didn't look like that. - Yeah. One of the other interesting things to think about is this is not a no-brainer investment. This was not, pardon the intentional pun, it's not a slam dunk investment. There were people who looked at it in past who were like, "Yeah, I'm just not sure that I buy into this growth story that's happening." How does that factor into your decision-making and Larry and Suzanne's decision-making either in terms of the price
to offer, where to invest? How does that figure in the risk involved, I guess? - Yeah, there's a risk, but I remember Larry saying a lot during the beginning stages that he wanted the Atlanta Dream because he loved the truth to power that the team was representing. So sometimes there's investments that we did believe that there would be a return on investment, but I think our whole ownership group, we wanted to be a part of the ownership group because of what Atlanta stood for. But also too, to having said that, I was a part of the executive committee for some CBA negotiations. And I do remember a time where there would be teams that were folding and they were like, "You got to take this deal because there's teams folding
and if you guys don't take this deal, we don't know." And so there was the risk that's in the back of my mind of, okay, there's been teams that have come, there's been teams that have gone. But I mean, the hooper in me and the love of the game and the love of Atlanta, I just felt like there's no way that this team doesn't survive and be successful. - Renee, when you think about the growth of the W, it has been stratospheric. It's been unbelievable. It does require a significant amount of investment. How are you guys taking that on? - Yeah. I mean, you have to invest to grow.
I know that people try to like, well, when you see the growth, do you invest more? Yes. But sometimes to jumpstart that growth, you have to invest. And even when it comes to arenas and gyms, for the Atlanta Dream, for us, moving to a larger arena is an investment because we love Gateway. And I think the Gateway Arena gives us this certain feel where the fans are on top of you. But now with us moving to State Farm Arena for the next five years is going to be like, that's a chance for more fans to experience our team. And as you can see from the playoffs, the want to is there and the fans want to. So it's tough to leave an arena where you built something, but you have to invest and grow.
- So moving into State Farm, how does that deal come about? - I mean, it's tough because there's different parties. State Farm is owned by their own group. And so when you have, you're almost essentially trying to rent out a location, but it's great when people understand the magnitude of what's going on with the Atlanta dream. And shouts to Morgan Shaw Parker. She's our president of the Atlanta Dream who is at the forefront of it. And then just the vision. I always say I'm so thankful to work alongside Larry and Suzanne because they do business at the highest level. So when they want something
and when they see the vision for something, I'm like, let's go. What do you need me to do? I'm always in. So I just think it took a lot of parties to make that happen, but I think that the city of Atlanta is going to show up and show out. - So you talked about Larry and Suzanne and how welcoming they've been and how they treated you like you were like an equal partner essentially, right? And that's what you want in partners. Give us an example of how often you guys talk, what kind of issues come up? Is it just free agency? Is it advertisement?
Is it moving to a new arena? Walk us through that. - Yeah. I feel like it's a drip. Right now we're texting, you know what I mean? You're like, - My phone is buzzing right now, so I'm going to get to some texts after this. - I mean, we're in a group chat. So when things happen in the WNBA, I'm the younger of the group, so I'm in the social media streets. So I'll drop in if I see a Tweet, if I see a post, I'm dropping it in the chat. We also, in our group chat, we have another group chat that our GM is in. We have another group chat that our president is in.
It's hard to answer how often we talk because we are talking about everything all the time. And I love that because they're telling me, "Hey, we're at the finish line. We're landing the plane on this deal." So it's a constant drip, but I think that's the workings of the best teams I've been a part of, even if it's a sports team or not. The connectivity of how we're talking, how we're communicating to each other, it's at a high level. - So you make the transition from WNBA player to ownership. - Exactly.
- Yep. - Followed by none other than Sue Bird. You both went to little school called UConn, the most successful college basketball team in the history of the planet. Let's talk about that time and sort of how formative it was, and in the context of how much the business of college basketball and specifically women's college basketball has changed in the intervening time, because now, if I understand, you're looking at it from an investment and a business lens as well. - Yeah. I mean, you're talking about NIL, I'm assuming too. Yeah.
- Yeah. - NIL, I feel like it's been a long time coming in a sense of athletes and their brands are so major and they've contributed so much to not just the sports and what happens, but athletes and sports control enrollment. University has a good run in the tournament and all of a sudden enrollment goes up in the school, which equates to dollars. So yeah, looking at it in that aspect, when we were a player in college, I could have cared less about any of that. I was there to hoop, to try to win a championship, and I consider myself fortunate to get a free scholarship. But I think that now we've advanced from that. And I think you are going to see a point where, well, you've already seen it now where there's
influencers like Mr. Beast had a logo patch for the Charlotte Hornets, and then you see other influencers that have actual patches on college teams because the level of business is there and there's that crossover into media. So I do think that the opportunity. Uconn is not actually as large in it as I think schools like LSU are. - Totally. - I went straight from high school to Seattle, the Mariners, so I have a completely different perspective than you do. How do we make it better? Can you see a place where you put some guardrails around NIL? Because it feels for me like the Wild West. How do you see it?
- Yeah, I see it the same way. I know that we love to call it amateur, but I think we should just use the same things that we use in professional sports. If you want a player, then you have to trade. This player can't sign a three-year contract and leave. And I think the same applies to coaches. Everything should be the same. There should be buyouts. There should be maxes. Just if we're going to be a paying entity, there's the teetering between, is it amateur? Is it professional? And I think that's what's making it wild because there's not a certain amount of rules.
- It's interesting because you did make an investment right in Campus Inc. How does that deal come about? How does that come to you? Mark Cuban's also in that guy. - Yeah, Mark Cuban. So any deals that Mark Cuban's in, I'm like, tap me in. But first of all, I saw what they were doing and got in touch with the owner and was just like, people underestimate the power of merchandise. People are always trying to talk about sales, viewership, ad sales. But the fandom, people are expressing themselves through what they wear and what they wear is changing.
It used to be your normal t-shirts and your hoodie and you had your standardised logo and that was it. But now people want hoodies that say something. They want a statement hoodie that says their favorite player statement, and that's what Campus Inc. was doing at a high level. And so that's what drew me to them. And obviously UConn was one of the teams that they were licensing, so that was the easy fix. But seeing where things are trending is what makes me want to invest in something. - So that's something where you just hit them up and you're like, "Hey, you may know me.
I'm sort of a big deal. I went to UConn. I own a WNBA team. Can we do some things together?" - It's literally how it happened. I'm not even kidding. Yes, I'm infamous for a cold reach out to someone. If I see a business that I'm like, "This is interesting and this could work," I will 100% reach out to them and say, "What's up?" - So Renee, I'm wondering, because you're so ambitious and so smart and you have such a bright future. Where do you and your brand and your business want to be in five years?
- Yeah, it's interesting because I talk about this a lot with women's sports. You signed the biggest deal in MLB history and then you outed yourself and did it again. But women's sports, we don't necessarily have the capital. And so for me, a lot of the deals that I've had to make, I have to get creative and I have to do those cold reach outs and I have to figure it out because I don't necessarily have the funds to build the empire that I want to build, but I'm just trying not to let that stop me. Piece by piece, we're doing it. But when it comes to women's sports, that's the next step for us is getting that capital to make the smart investments. Because a lot of people talk about, yeah,
well, what are you going to do? But it's like, what do you do when you don't have the investment would be the question that a lot of women's sports would have to answer. - All right. So in that sort of what's next vein, the last question I have for you is what's next for the W? I often say asking for a friend who has a very vested interest in the WNBA. What's the most important thing that needs to happen next to both sustain and grow this league? - I think visibility. You can't beat visibility in the more eyes that are on the game.
I think when the WNBA got stagnant, there was less visibility and there was less games on TV, games on alt networks in a sense. Even looking back at the playoffs, I was pretty shocked to see that there was a playoff game on ESPN too. I think that the playoff games need to be ESPN, ABC, USA Sports, NBC, CBS. It needs to be on your broadcast if you have broadcast or your main channel, if that's the case. So I think just the visibility of the WNBA, because again, the product is there.
We know that the viewership and the attendance is up and online, the engagement is up, but you have to be able to get and receive the games. Also, I think global. I think that we played overseas, so there's a large amount of overseas fans that are tapped into women's sports and women's basketball from where we were playing there. And also they have their own leagues. So how do you tap into that group as well to where there's a lot of overseas fans that are super fans of the Lakers, right?
I don't know if we have super fans internationally that are fans of the WNBA yet, but I think that's a big untapped market. - All right. Renee Montgomery, co-owner, vice president of Atlanta Dream, podcaster, investor, entrepreneur. This is so fun. - Let's go. - Thank you.
